Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of wood, shine and function as 'I'? No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body as though it were truly a corpse. Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. If one catches hold of it and remains still, it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of burning camphor. Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be Liberation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When I read this part of Ramana's Self-Enquiry yesterday, it gave me a great push and was a real revelation. Something of it I want to share with you as the limited thoughts of a seeker - not knowing if it is of any use. In this quote the whole vichara is described in short. The path of vichara is clear, easy and natural - but vasanas are also very powerful and it seems they even gain power and come to full daylight when vichara is started. So great and uninterrupted effort is needed (100%). What is necessary and demands full concentration and effort is to lay the body aside as a mere corpse, find out what is shining in the Heart as I-I and remain there. In whatever condition this body is it has to be laid aside. What Ramana says is that the I-I from within will then do the annihilation of the sense of I in the body, if one only catches hold of I-I and stays there. The steady catch hold of I-I demands tremendous effort because of vasanas coming up. The ego is playing out all its tricks to avoid this to happen, when it feels loosing influence and hold. But finally the I-I will take over, do the destruction of the wrong identification and will at last also be burnt up. Effort is necessary until that from within takes over. When that from within takes over no effort is necessary anymore. The grace and guidance of the Guru (who is nothing else but the true Self) makes this effort and everything else to be done. The seeker will make this effort by the grace and under the guidance of the Guru. Otherwise it could not happen. So if a devotee is under His permanent grace and power he will be back in his natural state earlier or later (in this life or another). The Guru will reveal Himself as the devotees' true Self. Only the Self is left. In Sri Ramana Gabriele om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, I wanted to reply to this. The part I want to comment on is the following: Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of wood, shine and function as 'I'? No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body as though it were truly a corpse. Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. If one catches hold of it and remains still, it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of burning camphor. Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be Liberation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) When I read this, it did the same for me. I'm not sure how to explain the understanding that came with it and in the whole practice of self enquiry. I always love to read these things that are posted for this reason exactly; it always helps me to understand better. "When I read this part of Ramana's Self-Enquiry yesterday, it gave me a great push and was a real revelation. Something of it I want to share with you as the limited thoughts of a seeker - not knowing if it is of any use. In this quote the whole vichara is described in short. The path of vichara is clear, easy and natural - but vasanas are also very powerful and it seems they even gain power and come to full daylight when vichara is started. So great and uninterrupted effort is needed (100%). What is necessary and demands full concentration and effort is to lay the body aside as a mere corpse, find out what is shining in the Heart as I-I and remain there. In whatever condition this body is it has to be laid aside. What Ramana says is that the I-I from within will then do the annihilation of the sense of I in the body, if one only catches hold of I-I and stays there. The steady catch hold of I-I demands tremendous effort because of vasanas coming up. The ego is playing out all its tricks to avoid this to happen, when it feels loosing influence and hold. But finally the I-I will take over, do the destruction of the wrong identification and will at last also be burnt up. Effort is necessary until that from within takes over. When that from within takes over no effort is necessary anymore. The grace and guidance of the Guru (who is nothing else but the true Self) makes this effort and everything else to be done. The seeker will make this effort by the grace and under the guidance of the Guru. Otherwise it could not happen. So if a devotee is under His permanent grace and power he will be back in his natural state earlier or later (in this life or another). The Guru will reveal Himself as the devotees' true Self. Only the Self is left." This also was a great help, thank you. My one question is though, like a few other people were asking, does the Guru need to be in human form? I couldn't imagine why the Guru would have to be in human form when the human form is no more than an illusion. I am just asking anyway though. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, Okay, thank you for that. That answers my question. Thank you, again. Namo Ramana Prem Hail to the glorious Goddess Athena, who is of wisdom, purity, beauty. She guides me on my path to enlightenment, ever so gently, ever so pure. Hail to the glorious Athena, who fills me with Her love, strength, and wisdom. I devote to Her with all my being, I know She will never guide me wrongly. So may She shine upon all things just as She does unto me, Forever pure, gentle, peaceful, beautiful. She is the light that shines through all things, And all I do shall be a reflection of this inner light. Hail to Athena! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Dear Prem, Miles has already given a part of Talk 23. It is: Maharshi: "Who is a Master? He is the Self after all. According to the stages of the development of the mind the Self manifests as the Master externally. The famous ancient saint Avadhuta said that he had had more than 24 Masters. The master is one from whom one learns anything. The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case of Avadhuta. God, Guru and the Self are identical. A spiritually-minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God for his Guru. Later, God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and the same man is made by the grace of his Master to feel that his Self is the Reality and nothing else. Thus he finds that the Self is the Master." Om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya RamanaMaharshi, Athena1111@a... wrote: > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Namaste, > > I wanted to reply to this. The part I want to comment on is the following: > > Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of wood, > shine and function as 'I'? > No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body > as though it were truly a corpse. > Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within > what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. > Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, > there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, > silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. > If one catches hold of it and remains still, > it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in the body, > and will itself disappear as a fire of burning camphor. > Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be Liberation. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) > > When I read this, it did the same for me. I'm not sure how to explain the > understanding that came with it and in the whole practice of self enquiry. I > always love to read these things that are posted for this reason exactly; it > always helps me to understand better. > > "When I read this part of Ramana's Self-Enquiry yesterday, it gave me a great > push and was a real revelation. > Something of it I want to share with you as the limited thoughts of a seeker > - not knowing if it is of any use. > In this quote the whole vichara is described in short. > The path of vichara is clear, easy and natural - but vasanas are also very > powerful and it seems they even gain power and > come to full daylight when vichara is started. > So great and uninterrupted effort is needed (100%). > What is necessary and demands full concentration and effort is to lay the > body aside as a mere corpse, find out > what is shining in the Heart as I-I and remain there. In whatever condition > this body is it has to be laid aside. > What Ramana says is that the I-I from within will then do the annihilation of > the sense of I in the body, if one only catches > hold of I-I and stays there. > The steady catch hold of I-I demands tremendous effort because of vasanas > coming up. The ego is playing out all its tricks > to avoid this to happen, when it feels loosing influence and hold. > But finally the I-I will take over, do the destruction of the wrong > identification and will at last also be burnt up. > Effort is necessary until that from within takes over. When that from within > takes over no effort is necessary anymore. > The grace and guidance of the Guru (who is nothing else but the true Self) > makes this effort and everything else to be done. > The seeker will make this effort by the grace and under the guidance of the > Guru. Otherwise it could not happen. So if a > devotee is under His permanent grace and power he will be back in his natural > state earlier or later (in this life or another). > The Guru will reveal Himself as the devotees' true Self. Only the Self is > left." > > This also was a great help, thank you. My one question is though, like a few > other people were asking, does the Guru need to be in human form? I couldn't > imagine why the Guru would have to be in human form when the human form is no > more than an illusion. I am just asking anyway though. > > Namo Ramana > > Prem > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Gabriele, Thanks for this post, it makes everything seem very clear and straightforward. My understanding is that the sense of 'I-I' must also eventually disappear, is this what you understand ? Vic >"Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert >RamanaMaharshi ><RamanaMaharshi>, "SelfRealization" ><self_realization_dialogues> >[RamanaMaharshi] Some thoughts of a seeker about vichara >Sat, 8 Jun 2002 12:02:23 +0200 > >Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of wood, >shine and function as 'I'? >No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body >as though it were truly a corpse. >Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within >what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. > >Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, >there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, >silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. > >If one catches hold of it and remains still, >it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in the body, >and will itself disappear as a fire of burning camphor. >Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be Liberation. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >When I read this part of Ramana's Self-Enquiry yesterday, it gave me a >great push and was a real revelation. >Something of it I want to share with you as the limited thoughts of a >seeker - not knowing if it is of any use. > >In this quote the whole vichara is described in short. >The path of vichara is clear, easy and natural - but vasanas are also very >powerful and it seems they even gain power and come to full daylight when >vichara is started. >So great and uninterrupted effort is needed (100%). > >What is necessary and demands full concentration and effort is to lay the >body aside as a mere corpse, find out >what is shining in the Heart as I-I and remain there. In whatever condition >this body is it has to be laid aside. >What Ramana says is that the I-I from within will then do the annihilation >of the sense of I in the body, if one only catches hold of I-I and stays >there. >The steady catch hold of I-I demands tremendous effort because of vasanas >coming up. The ego is playing out all its tricks to avoid this to happen, >when it feels loosing influence and hold. >But finally the I-I will take over, do the destruction of the wrong >identification and will at last also be burnt up. >Effort is necessary until that from within takes over. When that from >within takes over no effort is necessary anymore. > >The grace and guidance of the Guru (who is nothing else but the true Self) >makes this effort and everything else to be done. The seeker will make this >effort by the grace and under the guidance of the Guru. Otherwise it could >not happen. So if a devotee is under His permanent grace and power he will >be back in his natural state earlier or later (in this life or another). >The Guru will reveal Himself as the devotees' true Self. Only the Self is >left. > > >In Sri Ramana >Gabriele > >om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya > > > > _______________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Yes. Ramana says that it will itself also disappear: "If one catches hold of it [the I-I]and remains still, it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of burning camphor. Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be Liberation." But I can't until now understand (I mean really and fully understand) this, which will happen at last, only see that Ramana says it. In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "vic w" <shivaguy108@h...> wrote: > > Gabriele, > > Thanks for this post, it makes everything seem very clear and > straightforward. My understanding is that the sense of 'I-I' must also > eventually disappear, is this what you understand ? > > Vic > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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