Cleaner Version of: Maharshi-mind & self-investigation

[Guest guest]

Question: It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation

is with the mind. The mind cannot think it. It cannot be

thought of

by the mind and the mind alone can realise it. How are these

contradictions to be reconciled?"

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi:

Atman (Self) is realised with mrita manas (dead mind),

that is,

mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the

mind sees

its own source and becomes that (the Self). It is not

as the subject

perceiving an object. When the room is dark, a lamp is

necessary

to illumine, and eyes are necessary to recognise

objects. But when

the sun has risen there is no need of a lamp to see

objects. To see

the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough that you

turn your eyes

towards the self-luminous sun.

 

Similarly with the mind. To see objects the reflected

light of the mind

is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the

mind is turned

towards it. Then mind loses itself and Heart shines forth.

The essence of mind is only awareness or

consciousness. When the ego,

however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning,

thinking or sensing

faculty. The cosmic mind, being not limited by the

ego, has nothing

separate from itself and is therefore only aware.

 

Again people often ask how the mind is controlled. I

say to them,

'Show me the mind and then you will know what to do'.

The fact is

that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. How can

you extinguish it

by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your

thoughts and desires

are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply

fattened by new

thoughts rising up. Therefore it is foolish to

attempt to kill the mind

by means of the mind. The only way of doing it to

find its source and

hold on to it. The mind will then fade away of its

own accord.

 

Yoga teaches CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA (control of the

activities of the mind).

But I say ATMA VICHARA (self-investigation). This is

the practical way.

Chitta Vritti Nirodha is brought about in sleep,

swoon, or by starvation.

As soon as the cause is withdrawn there is a

recrudescence of thoughts.

Of what use is it then? In the state of stupor there

is peace and no misery.

But misery recurs when the stupor is removed. So

Nirodha (control) is

useless and cannot be of lasting benefit.

 

How then can the benefit be made lasting? It is by

finding the cause

of misery. Misery is due to the perception of objects.

If they are not there,

there will be no contingent thoughts and so misery is

wiped off.

 

'How will objects cease to be'? is the next question.

The sruti (scriptures)

and the sages say that the objects are only mental

creations.

They have no substantive being. Investigate the

matter and ascertain

the truth of the statement. The result will be the

conclusion that the

objective world is in the subjective

consciousness.The Self is thus

the only reality which permeates and also envelopes

the world.

Since there is no duality, no thoughts will arise to

disturb your peace.

This is realisation of the Self. The Self is eternal

and so also is realisation.

 

Abhyasa (spiritual practice) consists in withdrawal

within the Self every time

you are disturbed by thought. It is not concentration

or destruction of the mind

but withdrawal into the Self.

 

from Be As You Are , taken from www.hinduism.co.za

 

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[Guest guest]

Question: It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is

with the

mind. The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind

alone

can realise it. How are these contradictions to be reconciled?"

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi: Atman (Self) is realised with mrita manas (dead mind), that

is,

mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own source and

becomes that (the Self). It is not as the subject perceiving an object. When the

room is

dark, a lamp is necessary to illumine, and eyes are necessary to recognise

objects. But

when the sun has risen there is no need of a lamp to see objects. To see the sun

no lamp

is necessary, it is enough that you turn your eyes towards the self-luminous

sun.

 

Similarly with the mind. To see objects the reflected light of the mind is

necessary. To

see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then mind loses

itself and

Heart shines forth. The essence of mind is only awareness or consciousness. When

the

ego, however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning, thinking or sensing

faculty. The

cosmic mind, being not limited by the ego, has nothing separate from itself and

is

therefore only aware.

 

Again people often ask how the mind is controlled. I say to them, 'Show me the

mind and

then you will know what to do'. The fact is that the mind is only a bundle of

thoughts.

How can you extinguish it by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your

thoughts and

desires are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply fattened by new

thoughts

rising up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to kill the mind by means of the

mind. The

only way of doing it to find its source and hold on to it. The mind will then

fade away of

its own accord.

 

Yoga teaches CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA (control of the activities of the mind). But

I

say ATMA VICHARA (self-investigation). This is the practical way. Chitta Vritti

Nirodha is brought about in sleep, swoon, or by starvation. As soon as the cause

is

withdrawn there is a recrudescence of thoughts. Of what use is it then? In the

state of

stupor there is peace and no misery. But misery recurs when the stupor is

removed. So

Nirodha (control) is useless and cannot be of lasting benefit.

 

How then can the benefit be made lasting? It is by finding the cause of misery.

Misery

is due to the perception of objects. If they are not there, there will be no

contingent

thoughts and so misery is wiped off.

 

'How will objects cease to be'? is the next question. The sruti (scriptures) and

the

sages say that the objects are only mental creations. They have no substantive

being.

Investigate the matter and ascertain the truth of the statement. The result will

be the

conclusion that the objective world is in the subjective consciousness.The Self

is thus

the only reality which permeates and also envelopes the world. Since there is no

duality,

no thoughts will arise to disturb your peace. This is realisation of the Self.

The Self is

eternal and so also is realisation.

 

Abhyasa (spiritual practice) consists in withdrawal within the Self every time

you are

disturbed by thought. It is not concentration or destruction of the mind but

withdrawal

into the Self.

 

from Be As You Are , taken from www.hinduism.co.za

 

 

________________

 

Michael,

 

Which message cleaner program do you use?

If you word wrap, it gets rid of those half lines spaced out.

Gloria

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>Michael,

>

>Which message cleaner program do you use?

>If you word wrap, it gets rid of those half lines spaced out.

>Gloria

 

 

Gloria:

 

I used Message Cleaner.

Jerry recommended it on the See What IS list.

 

When I sent the message it was perfect.

 

When it came through it was garbled.

 

Made me feel like a fool! :-)

 

Oh well, what else is new? :-)

 

~ ~ Michael

 

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