Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya --- vic w <shivaguy108 wrote: > > Gabriele, > > Thanks for this post, it makes everything seem very > clear and straightforward. My understanding is that > the sense of 'I-I' must also eventually disappear, > is this what you understand ? > > Vic ========= Thank you Sri Gabriele, Sri Prem, Sri Vicki, for this wonderful dialogue. Vicki you have summed it up nicely. It is my understanding too! (Is that why it is wonderful?!) The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. When that too disappears, it is the unmanifest Shiva in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva and Shakti are one as Arunachala Siva. om sri ramanaya namah It would be delightful to read the words of dear Sri Miles on this. om gurave namah suri ======= > > >"Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert > > > >Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of > >wood, shine and function as 'I'? > >No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body > >as though it were truly a corpse. > >Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within > >what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. > >Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, > >there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, > >silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. > >If one catches hold of it and remains still, > >it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in > >the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of > >burning camphor. > >Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be > Liberation. > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > >When I read this part of Ramana's Self-Enquiry > >yesterday, it gave me a great push and was a real > >revelation. Something of it I want to share with > >you as the limited thoughts of a seeker - not > >knowing if it is of any use. > > > >In this quote the whole vichara is described in > short. > >The path of vichara is clear, easy and natural - > but vasanas are also very > >powerful and it seems they even gain power and come > to full daylight when > >vichara is started. > >So great and uninterrupted effort is needed (100%). > > > >What is necessary and demands full concentration > and effort is to lay the > >body aside as a mere corpse, find out > >what is shining in the Heart as I-I and remain > there. In whatever condition > >this body is it has to be laid aside. > >What Ramana says is that the I-I from within will > then do the annihilation > >of the sense of I in the body, if one only catches > hold of I-I and stays > >there. > >The steady catch hold of I-I demands tremendous > effort because of vasanas > >coming up. The ego is playing out all its tricks to > avoid this to happen, > >when it feels loosing influence and hold. > >But finally the I-I will take over, do the > destruction of the wrong > >identification and will at last also be burnt up. > >Effort is necessary until that from within takes > over. When that from > >within takes over no effort is necessary anymore. > > > >The grace and guidance of the Guru (who is nothing > else but the true Self) > >makes this effort and everything else to be done. > The seeker will make this > >effort by the grace and under the guidance of the > Guru. Otherwise it could > >not happen. So if a devotee is under His permanent > grace and power he will > >be back in his natural state earlier or later (in > this life or another). > >The Guru will reveal Himself as the devotees' true > Self. Only the Self is > >left. > > > > > >In Sri Ramana > >Gabriele > > > >om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > _______________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.msn.com > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: > RamanaMaharshi- > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > Your use of is subject to > > > ______________________ Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Dear Suri, thank you for you for your words. When the 'I-I' also is burnt up, this must be the final death of the ego, as there is no further chance for it to rise again? Perhaps understanding this final part is only possible when it happens and no I is left to understand. When I-I is the manifest Reality and it also finally merges can it ever rise up again? In HIM Gabriele > > The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. > When that too disappears, it is the unmanifest Shiva > in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva and Shakti > are one as Arunachala Siva. > > om sri ramanaya namah > > It would be delightful to read the words of > dear Sri Miles on this. > > om gurave namah > suri > > ======= > > > > >"Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> > > > > > >Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of > > >wood, shine and function as 'I'? > > >No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body > > >as though it were truly a corpse. > > >Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within > > >what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. > > >Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, > > >there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, > > >silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. > > >If one catches hold of it and remains still, > > >it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in > > >the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of > > >burning camphor. > > >Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be > > Liberation. > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________ __ > Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now > at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 When even the 'I-I' is burnt up, this must be the end of birth and death, the end of creation and destruction, pure Being... The ego and the whole universe which arise from the heart and become manifest, merge back in the heart in the pure and silent awareness of 'I-I' through vichara. This 'I-I' is the pure Shakti of the Self. It takes over and destroys the wrong identification with the ego. When it also is burnt up and merges - this is pure Self. Then nothing can become manifest again. Is it so? In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > Dear Suri, > thank you for you for your words. > When the 'I-I' also is burnt up, this must be the final death of the > ego, as there is no further chance for it to rise again? > Perhaps understanding this final part is only possible when it > happens and no I is left to understand. > > When I-I is the manifest Reality and it also finally merges can it > ever rise up again? > > In HIM > Gabriele > > > > > The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. > > When that too disappears, it is the unmanifest Shiva > > in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva and Shakti > > are one as Arunachala Siva. > > > > om sri ramanaya namah > > > > It would be delightful to read the words of > > dear Sri Miles on this. > > > > om gurave namah > > suri > > > > ======= > > > > > > >"Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> > > > > > > > >Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of > > > >wood, shine and function as 'I'? > > > >No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body > > > >as though it were truly a corpse. > > > >Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within > > > >what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. > > > >Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, > > > >there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, > > > >silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. > > > >If one catches hold of it and remains still, > > > >it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in > > > >the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of > > > >burning camphor. > > > >Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be > > > Liberation. > > > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ____________________ > __ > > Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now > > at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste Sri Gabriele, I will post my oppinion on this. Remember, I don't know much about Ramana maharshi except for his teachings and through what i have learned through the group, so my answer is only limited based on what I believe personally. So, here is my response: First: I believe that once the "I-I" is burned up, yes, that is the final death of the ego. What chance does it have of once more arising? I have once read somewhere tat once this has happened, that the ego is destroyed, and there is only pure being, there is no way of the ego rearising. second: What better way to understand than personally experiencing it? Truly these experiences are beyond words and language, and can only be experienced, but we can try to get an understanding of what they are like, at the very least. Lastly: I refer back to my first response about the ego; I think it is the same here. I think the "I-I" also being burned up is the final stage, and then you are truly One with unmanifest reality, whatever you may call it. I never like naming this reality because it is nameless truly and to name it is to separate you even farther from it. Could it be that this is why the "I-I" must also burn up, because it is a name for the reality that must not exist for you to be truly One with it? Perhaps it is the last barrier, obsticle, to true realization. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Suri wrote: The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. When that too disappear= s, it is the unmanifest Shiva in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva an= d Shakti are one as Arunachala Siva. om sri ramanaya namah --can someone please elaborate on the above? This sound like Kundalini or T= antra...¿ I was hoping that Sri Gabriele will have the patience to stay at Alton's se= lf_realization club with the newbies on board; so we can learn more about Sr= i Ramana from someone advanced and familiar with His thought, but she unders= tandingly is preoccupied with her own advancement and left us. ~Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, Srinivasan Suryanarayan <sury_suryanarayan= > wrote: > om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya > > --- vic w <shivaguy108@h...> wrote: > > > > Gabriele, > > > > Thanks for this post, it makes everything seem very > > clear and straightforward. My understanding is that > > the sense of 'I-I' must also eventually disappear, > > is this what you understand ? > > > > Vic > > ========= > Thank you Sri Gabriele, Sri Prem, Sri Vicki, for this > wonderful dialogue. Vicki you have summed it up > nicely. > It is my understanding too! (Is that why it is > wonderful?!) > > The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. > When that too disappears, it is the unmanifest Shiva > in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva and Shakti > are one as Arunachala Siva. > > om sri ramanaya namah > > It would be delightful to read the words of > dear Sri Miles on this. > > om gurave namah > suri > > ======= > > > > >"Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> > > > > > >Can the body, which is insentient as a piece of > > >wood, shine and function as 'I'? > > >No. Therefore, lay aside this insentient body > > >as though it were truly a corpse. > > >Do not even murmur 'I', but enquire keenly within > > >what it is that now shines within the heart as 'I'. > > >Underlying the unceasing flow of varied thoughts, > > >there arises the continuous, unbroken awareness, > > >silent and spontaneous, as 'I-I' in the Heart. > > >If one catches hold of it and remains still, > > >it will completely annihilate the sense of 'I' in > > >the body, and will itself disappear as a fire of > > >burning camphor. > > >Sages and scriptures proclaim this to be > > Liberation. > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >in Self-Enquiry (in Words of Grace) > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > >When I read this part of Ramana's Self-Enquiry > > >yesterday, it gave me a great push and was a real > > >revelation. Something of it I want to share with > > >you as the limited thoughts of a seeker - not > > >knowing if it is of any use. > > > > > >In this quote the whole vichara is described in > > short. > > >The path of vichara is clear, easy and natural - > > but vasanas are also very > > >powerful and it seems they even gain power and come > > to full daylight when > > >vichara is started. > > >So great and uninterrupted effort is needed (100%). > > > > > >What is necessary and demands full concentration > > and effort is to lay the > > >body aside as a mere corpse, find out > > >what is shining in the Heart as I-I and remain > > there. In whatever condition > > >this body is it has to be laid aside. > > >What Ramana says is that the I-I from within will > > then do the annihilation > > >of the sense of I in the body, if one only catches > > hold of I-I and stays > > >there. > > >The steady catch hold of I-I demands tremendous > > effort because of vasanas > > >coming up. The ego is playing out all its tricks to > > avoid this to happen, > > >when it feels loosing influence and hold. > > >But finally the I-I will take over, do the > > destruction of the wrong > > >identification and will at last also be burnt up. > > >Effort is necessary until that from within takes > > over. When that from > > >within takes over no effort is necessary anymore. > > > > > >The grace and guidance of the Guru (who is nothing > > else but the true Self) > > >makes this effort and everything else to be done. > > The seeker will make this > > >effort by the grace and under the guidance of the > > Guru. Otherwise it could > > >not happen. So if a devotee is under His permanent > > grace and power he will > > >be back in his natural state earlier or later (in > > this life or another). > > >The Guru will reveal Himself as the devotees' true > > Self. Only the Self is > > >left. > > > > > > > > >In Sri Ramana > > >Gabriele > > > > > >om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste Sri Gabriele, you wrote: thank you for your answer. It is the same what I understand so far. So now it's for us to go the path and gain the real understanding. yes the true understanding comes when we experience it. we can merely dream of it now, and this does nothing but to intensify our desire to reach the end goal. Well besides that, this can sometimes help us see the things we have to do in order to achieve it. But in any case, the real understanding comes with the path. I hope the answer was of some help. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Dear Prem, thank you for your answer. It is the same what I understand so far. So now it's for us to go the path and gain the real understanding. In HIM Gabriele -- In RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote: > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Namaste Sri Gabriele, > > I will post my oppinion on this. Remember, I don't know much about Ramana > maharshi except for his teachings and through what i have learned through the > group, so my answer is only limited based on what I believe personally. So, > here is my response: > First: I believe that once the "I-I" is burned up, yes, that is the final > death of the ego. What chance does it have of once more arising? I have > once read somewhere tat once this has happened, that the ego is destroyed, > and there is only pure being, there is no way of the ego rearising. > second: What better way to understand than personally experiencing it? > Truly these experiences are beyond words and language, and can only be > experienced, but we can try to get an understanding of what they are like, at > the very least. > Lastly: I refer back to my first response about the ego; I think it is > the same here. I think the "I-I" also being burned up is the final stage, > and then you are truly One with unmanifest reality, whatever you may call it. > I never like naming this reality because it is nameless truly and to name it > is to separate you even farther from it. Could it be that this is why the > "I-I" must also burn up, because it is a name for the reality that must not > exist for you to be truly One with it? Perhaps it is the last barrier, > obsticle, to true realization. > > Namo Ramana > > Prem > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Dear Karta, RamanaMaharshi, "satkartar5" <sat_karta@h...> wrote: > Suri wrote: > > The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. When that too disappear= > s, it is the unmanifest Shiva in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva an= > d Shakti are one as Arunachala Siva. > om sri ramanaya namah > > --can someone please elaborate on the above? This sound like Kundalini or T= > antra...¿ The "I-I" is aham sphurana. > I was hoping that Sri Gabriele will have the patience to stay at Alton's se= > lf_realization club with the newbies on board; so we can learn more about Sr= > i Ramana from someone advanced and familiar with His thought, but she unders= > tandingly is preoccupied with her own advancement and left us. > And suddenly it is expected that I play the role of an "advanced" and become a "Sri" - joke of the day. In HIM Gabriele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Dear Sri Karta, You wrote: Suri wrote: > > The sense of "I-I" is the manifest Reality, Shakti. > When that too disappears, it is the unmanifest Shiva > in whom Shakti is merged. That is why Shiva and > Shakti are one as Arunachala Siva. > om sri ramanaya namah > > --can someone please elaborate on the above? This > sound like Kundalini or Tantra? The names Shiva and Shakti have been used by Shaivaites in India to refer to the unmanifest Reality and its manifestation. The appearance of the individual egoes and the illusion of individual bodily existence is the obstacle to realizing the oneness of manifestation. Bur Reality is beyond the creation or dissolution of manifestation. All this is theory for the curious mind. But it does not help the mind to fold back and look inwards! I don't know what Kundalini or Tantra are. But devotion to Guru Ramana is something that we all understand and that will make us undertsand all that we need. om gurave namah suri ______________________ Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Yes, dear Suri, the mind is always curious and you are right to say that devotion is all we need. The deepest devotion to Guru Ramana is vichara. In HIM Gabriele > The names Shiva and Shakti have been used by > Shaivaites in India to refer to the unmanifest Reality > and its manifestation. The appearance of the > individual egoes and the illusion of individual bodily > existence is the obstacle to realizing the oneness of > manifestation. Bur Reality is beyond the creation or > dissolution of manifestation. > > All this is theory for the curious mind. But it does > not help the mind to fold back and look inwards! I > don't know what Kundalini or Tantra are. But devotion > to Guru Ramana is something that we all understand and > that will make us undertsand all that we need. > > om gurave namah > suri > > > ____________________ __ > Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now > at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 PS correction: It is not fully right to say: the deepest devotion is vichara. Many of Ramana devotees simply are devoted to Guru Ramana and give themselves to him in full and loose the ego this way. But vichara done under the guidance of Guru Ramana is nothing else than full devotion to him. Ah- words! They never hit it fully right! In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > Yes, dear Suri, the mind is always curious and you are right to say > that devotion is all we need. The deepest devotion to Guru Ramana is > vichara. > In HIM > Gabriele > > > The names Shiva and Shakti have been used by > > Shaivaites in India to refer to the unmanifest Reality > > and its manifestation. The appearance of the > > individual egoes and the illusion of individual bodily > > existence is the obstacle to realizing the oneness of > > manifestation. Bur Reality is beyond the creation or > > dissolution of manifestation. > > > > All this is theory for the curious mind. But it does > > not help the mind to fold back and look inwards! I > > don't know what Kundalini or Tantra are. But devotion > > to Guru Ramana is something that we all understand and > > that will make us undertsand all that we need. > > > > om gurave namah > > suri > > > > > > > ____________________ > __ > > Everything you always wanted to know about cars and bikes,now > > at: http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > Dear Gabriele, > > As I answered you in my previous mail - > The beauty of devotion is that the heart is filled with love > and vichara happens; > > You wrote so beautifully in your previous message that > devotion is none other than vichara and it is so; > > In your second message you came with a correction and said > ' It is not fully right to say: the deepest devotion is > vichara. ' > > By this I understand that you have doubts that devotion is vichara. > It is fully right to say that devotion to Ramana Maharshi > is vichara; In one of his many answers , he said something > 'surrender your mind to me and I'll do the rest.' > This is not theory. Surrender is vichara. > > Surrender to Ramana implies surrender of one's mind to him; > then one's mind is his and he does the rest - he leads that > mind to vichara , he leads the vichara and knows best > how to do it. Everything that happens to a surrendered ego > or mind is vichara. > > Surrender to our guru is none other than vichara; > Fully vichara ,and in control of our master , with > heart and mind belonging to him ; > > Ever since I discovered Ramana , I met only truth on my path , > not theory, not metaphors. Truth. > > Love Ramana, > king of our minds, > vicki > > Dear Viki, You mention that Ramana said, "Surrender you meind to me and I'll do the rest". Is he saying surrender to me(Ramana), or to the "I" that is us all. If you direct your surrender to his form or the teachings I think the point is missed. with metta, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Dear Chris, > You mention that Ramana said, "Surrender you meind to me and I'll > do the rest". Is he saying surrender to me(Ramana), or to the "I" > that is us all. If you direct your surrender to his form or the > teachings I think the point is missed. > with metta, > Chris The essential factor is surrender of the ego. Then mind is resolved in its Source, which is God or Self. Surrender gives the mind one-pointedness. Sri Bhagavan has said: 208: It is enough that one surrenders oneself. Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's own being. Do not delude yourself by imagining such source to be some God outside you. One's source is within yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means you should seek the source and merge in it... (Ramana Maharshi, Talks) Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > Dear Chris, > please ignore my previous question; > I was asking only because it crossed my mind that this list grew > quite large and there could be that many members are interested > in Ramana's teaching but not necessarily follow the spiritual > path : devotion,self-enquiry. > As one on the path I am enjoying posting his teaching > to this list , occasionally I might talk with other > devotees about the teachings , his teaching points mainly > to practice , so I have nothing more to say about the subject > and the remark you raised , of course if other would have the pleasure > to talk about surrender to Ramana and what each one understands by it , > it would be interesting to follow, > > vicki I hope I didn't offend you with my question/statement. I certainly didn't mean to. I was simply hoping to create a clearer definition of surrender. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> wrote: > om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya > > Dear Chris, > > > You mention that Ramana said, "Surrender you meind to me and I'll > > do the rest". Is he saying surrender to me(Ramana), or to the "I" > > that is us all. If you direct your surrender to his form or the > > teachings I think the point is missed. > > with metta, > > Chris > > The essential factor is surrender of the ego. Then mind is resolved in its > Source, which is God or Self. Surrender gives the mind one- pointedness. > > Sri Bhagavan has said: > 208: It is enough that one surrenders oneself. Surrender is to give oneself > up to the original cause of one's own being. Do not delude yourself by > imagining such source to be some God outside you. One's source is within > yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means you should seek the source and > merge in it... (Ramana Maharshi, Talks) > > Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, > Miles Who does Ramana say it is that surrenders. If you haven't yet know god, then who are you surrendering to? This is where I'm confused. Does he say anything about this? Osho often used to say that only a ripe fruit falls. Or when you've gone as far as you can go with a technique then if falls of its own accord. Ramana Maharishi told a similar story to Papaji. with metta, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2002 Report Share Posted June 15, 2002 Dear Chris, it is good that you are asking your questions. I am also a big questioner at the moment. Many hints come from outside, but the real answer comes mostly from within. The point is that the ego must become dissolved. To whatever path one feels drawn to and follows, the ego has to be dissolved. Surrender is the way giving the ego to God or Guru, in whatever form the Absolute reveals itself to the seeker. God and Guru will have a name and form at this step. The Self / God reveals itself in this form to the seeker and becomes visible for him. He becomes a name and a form. For me it is Sat-Guru Ramana. In him I recognize the truth in full. God, the Self. Then the Guru turns you round 180 degrees and leads you back to the inner Guru without name and form, the Self which is your true nature. When your identification with your own name and form (body-mind) vanishes also the outer Guru's name and form vanishes. Then there is only the Self, no Guru and no disciple anymore. In HIM Gabriele > Who does Ramana say it is that surrenders. If you haven't yet know > god, then who are you surrendering to? This is where I'm confused. > Does he say anything about this? Osho often used to say that only a > ripe fruit falls. Or when you've gone as far as you can go with a > technique then if falls of its own accord. Ramana Maharishi told a > similar story to Papaji. > > with metta, > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2002 Report Share Posted June 15, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate sri Ramanaya Namaste, I hope no one minds if I share my idea on this? I think it is more the idea of surrendering of the ego that is important, not to who it is surrendered to. And, in addition, to surrender it to Sri Ramana, God, or the self, is saying, of course, the same thing. there is no difference in those three statements. So, again, just surrendering i think is the important thing, to whom it is surrendered is not important, because whoever it is surrendered to is ultimately the same being. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2002 Report Share Posted June 15, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, You wrote: So why not do it right now and say to yourself I'm not doer, but god is and you ask: what would God, or Ramana (= surrendering to Ramana) do in this case?-- and than comes a point when you won't have to ask and won't miss a beat, but be one with god's will) My question here is: Do we have a choice of what we will do? Or is it already all planned. Would this really be surrender? We are still doing, if we see it as us or as God, we are still doing, and it is not surrender. We think we have a choice of what we can do or will do. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2002 Report Share Posted June 15, 2002 hi Chris, in this line of thought the notion of being one with god's will surrender to that was helpful for me. We as egos always think we are the "actors" the doers, but in reality that what we plan what we want doesn't happen. instead what happens is: "God's Will" = reality. For westerners to surrender to an other human even to a great guru is not easy, but it is a short-cut, on the end when one is CLEAR he/she will see be aware and know the RIGHT action and thus be one with god's will. So why not do it right now and say to yourself I'm not doer, but god is and you ask: what would God, or Ramana (= surrendering to Ramana) do in this case?-- and than comes a point when you won't have to ask and won't miss a beat, but be one with god's will) ~all love Kartta~ RamanaMaharshi, "cromanyak" <cromanyak> wrote: > RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> wrote: > > om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya > > > > Dear Chris, > > > > > You mention that Ramana said, "Surrender you meind to me and I'll > > > do the rest". Is he saying surrender to me(Ramana), or to the "I" > > > that is us all. If you direct your surrender to his form or the > > > teachings I think the point is missed. > > > with metta, > > > Chris > > > > The essential factor is surrender of the ego. Then mind is resolved > in its > > Source, which is God or Self. Surrender gives the mind one- > pointedness. > > > > Sri Bhagavan has said: > > 208: It is enough that one surrenders oneself. Surrender is to give > oneself > > up to the original cause of one's own being. Do not delude yourself > by > > imagining such source to be some God outside you. One's source is > within > > yourself. Give yourself up to it. That means you should seek the > source and > > merge in it... (Ramana Maharshi, Talks) > > > > Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, > > Miles > > Who does Ramana say it is that surrenders. If you haven't yet know > god, then who are you surrendering to? This is where I'm confused. > Does he say anything about this? Osho often used to say that only a > ripe fruit falls. Or when you've gone as far as you can go with a > technique then if falls of its own accord. Ramana Maharishi told a > similar story to Papaji. > > with metta, > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2002 Report Share Posted June 15, 2002 dear Prem, yes you are on the right track: it is a state of being "to be one with god's will", off course as everything in spirituality it has it's degrees; on top is having an opened third-eye: when everything is clear. We have the choie to do the right thing and by time with spiritual practice our understanding is refined so we always do right, that is what I meant that than we'll not miss a beat; with every breath we'll be ONE with the doer power logos naam god sakti "word" etc. Thanks Gabriele for posting about the breath. <smile> Yes to surrender to god's will is the only surrender off course to make it personal understandable and easy you can surrender to Ramana whoose thinking you are familiar with; God is such and absrtact... I like to add, that I'm new here and love Ramana, I never practiced vichara, but meditated a lot and I know about the importance of a living guru. ~ all love Karta~ self_realization_dialogues RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote: > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Namaste, > > You wrote: So why not do it right now and > say to yourself I'm not doer, but god is and you ask: what would God, or > Ramana (= surrendering to Ramana) do in this case?-- > and than comes a point when you won't have to ask and won't miss a beat, but > be one with god's will) > > My question here is: Do we have a choice of what we will do? Or is it > already all planned. Would this really be surrender? We are still doing, if > we see it as us or as God, we are still doing, and it is not surrender. We > think we have a choice of what we can do or will do. > > Namo Ramana > > Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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