Guest guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Share Posted June 12, 2002 Dear Vicki, for Ramana devotees often surrender and vichara go hand in hand. Because of this I made this first statement yesterday: the deepest devotion is vichara. Then I become aware that this could be misleading and is not fully correct. the first is: Vichara is open to all. One need for this be no Ramana devotee. All can practice. the second is: Devotion (to Ramana) includes not necessarily vichara. It is another approach and not all devotees practice vichara. As much as devotion and vichara can go together there is also a distinction and they are two different approaches - leading to the same goal. Sometimes they melt together to one approach. For me personal it is like this: I am very devotional and at the same time I am very analythical, rationalistical and a "thinker-type", always fond to gain a proper understanding. Because I have this both extremities in me Guru Ramana is for me the greatest gift because he unites both approaches: devotion and vichara and in Him - so is my hope - both: devotion and vichara will find an end, when only He, the Self remains. - So far a personal note. Always in HIM Gabriele Dear Gabriele, As I answered you in my previous mail - The beauty of devotion is that the heart is filled with love and vichara happens; You wrote so beautifully in your previous message that devotion is none other than vichara and it is so; In your second message you came with a correction and said ' It is not fully right to say: the deepest devotion is vichara. ' By this I understand that you have doubts that devotion is vichara. It is fully right to say that devotion to Ramana Maharshi is vichara; In one of his many answers , he said something 'surrender your mind to me and I'll do the rest.' This is not theory. Surrender is vichara. Surrender to Ramana implies surrender of one's mind to him; then one's mind is his and he does the rest - he leads that mind to vichara , he leads the vichara and knows best how to do it. Everything that happens to a surrendered ego or mind is vichara. Surrender to our guru is none other than vichara; Fully vichara ,and in control of our master , with heart and mind belonging to him ; Ever since I discovered Ramana , I met only truth on my path , not theory, not metaphors. Truth. Love Ramana, king of our minds, vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Share Posted June 12, 2002 Dear Vicki, if self-enquiry happens by itself through surrender, that's great. I have still to put in all effort I can bring up for vichara and surrender gives a push to do so. I am not quite sure if surrender in any case turns into a natural self-enquiry process. Surrender means giving up all and surrender it to Guru Ramana: the body, the mind, simply everything. So the ego merges in Him. But is this then the same as self-enquiry? I see there still some distinction from the approaches. In HIM Gabriele > > in true surrender to the guru Ramana , > one is not asked whether one wants to sit in > self-enquiry meditation or not ; self-enquiry > happens; in sitting meditation,in dreams,in > life situations,when driving, when watching > a landscape,when talking, when eating , > when deliberately meditating , when whatever. > > True surrender to guru Ramana turns into a > natural self-enquiry process ,whether > in a sitting position meditation or not; > > a deep,clean,earnest self-enquiry practice turns > into love for one's guru and this is devotion; > > so they go hand in hand; > > devotion to guru Ramana and self-enquiry practice > meet and they become one, > > love Ramana, > vicki > ===== > > > > > - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Share Posted June 12, 2002 Dear Vicki, everything merges in the Self. Only the Self is real. The Guru is the Self. I am doubting nothing, only myself (this ego). In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > dear Gabriele, > > one of the reasons I usually stay out from talking > about the teaching is that what actually happens > is that each one brings one's own understanding of it > based on one's own experiences and on the present > mental understanding of it which might differ > so there might appear differences in opinions ; > so these differences in views are to me perfectly normal > and natural ; I answered you only because I felt > you doubted that deep devotion to Ramana and vichara > are the same; and as it usually happens with each one of us, > I brought my understanding of it based on my life's experiences > in this dialog : I am on a surrender path where everything that > happens to me is vichara and to me these two paths- devotion > and vichara - are one . And as I see things now , > devotion and love to Ramana brings vichara and pure > vichara brings love for him; > > It doesn't necessarily have to happen suddenly and in this life > time, we have the eternity before us .... > > "Surrender your mind to me, and I'll do the rest." > > I trust him, > > vicki > > > > > Dear Vicki, > > if self-enquiry happens by itself through surrender, that's great. > I > > have still to put in all effort I can bring up for vichara and > > surrender gives a push to do so. > > > > I am not quite sure if surrender in any case turns into a natural > > self-enquiry process. Surrender means giving up all and surrender > it > > to Guru Ramana: the body, the mind, simply everything. So the ego > > merges in Him. But is this then the same as self-enquiry? I see > there > > still some distinction from the approaches. > > > > In HIM > > Gabriele > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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