Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 Love True surrender is love of God for the sake of love and nothing else, not even for the sake of liberation. When you talk of love, there is duality, is there not? --- the person who loves and the entity called God who is loved? The individual is not separate from God. Hence love means one has love towa= rds one's own Self. Love itself is the actual form of God. If by saying, --I do not love this, I do not love that", you reject all things, that which remains is the real form of the Self. That is pure bliss. Call it pure bliss, God, Self, or what you will. That is devotion, that is realisation and that is everything. If you thus reject everything, what remains is the Self alone. That is real love. One who knows the secret of that love finds the world itself full of universal love. The experience of not forgetting consciousness alone is the state of devotion which is the relationship of unfading real love, because the real = knowledge of Self, which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself, surge= s up as the nature of love. Only if one knows the truth of love, which is the nature of Self, will the strong entangled knot of life be untied. Only if one attains the height of love will liberation be attained. The experience of Self is only love, which is seeing only love, hearing only love, feeling only love, tasting only love and smelling only love which is bliss. God God is immanent and formless. He is pure being and pure consciousness. Manifestations appears in Him and through His power, but He is not its creator. God never acts. He just is. He has neither will nor desire. Individuality is the illusion that we are not identical with God. When the illusion is dispelled what remains = is God. God, guru and the Self are identical. The guru is God in human form and simultaneously he is also the Self in the heart of each devotee. God is. God is within you. God is always the first person. The Self is God. I am is God. The absolute being is. What is? It is the Self. It is God. God and Self are synonymous for the immanent reality which is discovered by Self-realisation. Thus realisation of the Self is realisation of God. It is not an experience of God, rather it is an understanding that one is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self. To see God is to be God. There is no 'all' apart from God for Him to pervade it. He alone is. God is always the first person, the 'I', ever standing before you. Because of giving precedence to worldly things, God appears to have receede= d to the background. If you give up all else and seek Him alone, He alone will remain as the 'I', the Self. God does not reside in any place other than the Heart. Be sure that the Heart is the Kingdom of God. (from Mazie) ~with love Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, You wrote: I'm confused, are you saying God is not all forms? Prem writes: You reject the forms you perceive in this world. These forms are illusionary forms and are manifestations of the self, of God. They do not show the true form of God though, they are illusionary. If you reject the illusion you have the truth and the truth is God. You wrote: What do you use to reject all things? Your mind? If there is truly only ONE then what is there to reject? Prem writes: You reject the illusion, because you perceive that this is apart from everything, when it is truly not. Therefore, you reject your perception of everything and what is left is truth, God, the self. You wrote: Do you know this from experience? Prem writes: You do not have to experience everything to know it necessarily. It may come from many sources the person has faith in, combined, and some of his or her own experiences, into one belief like this one in this article. You wrote: How would you explain the contradiction then that God is omnipresent? Prem writes: The heart is not the physical heart. I read something from Sri Ramana once that, it is only said this is in the heart at the right side of the chest to those people who cannot understand true omnipresence. The heart, though given a location, refers to the same thing. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, "satkartar5" <mi_nok> wrote: > Love > Do you know god? > True surrender is love of God for the > sake of love and nothing else, not even > for the sake of liberation. > > When you talk of love, there is duality, > is there not? --- the person who loves > and the entity called God who is loved? > The individual is not separate from God. Hence love means one has love towa= > rds > one's own Self. > > Love itself is the actual form of God. > If by saying, --I do not love this, > I do not love that", you reject all > things, that which remains is the real > form of the Self. That is pure bliss. > Call it pure bliss, God, Self, or what > you will. That is devotion, that is realisation and that is everything. I'm confused, are you saying god is not all forms? > > If you thus reject everything, what > remains is the Self alone. That is > real love. One who knows the secret > of that love finds the world itself > full of universal love. What do you use to reject all things? Your mind? If there is truly only ONE then what is there to reject? > > The experience of not forgetting consciousness alone is the state of > devotion which is the relationship of unfading real love, because the real = > knowledge of Self, which shines as the undivided supreme bliss itself, surge= > s > up as the nature of love. > > Only if one knows the truth of love, > which is the nature of Self, will the > strong entangled knot of life be untied. > Only if one attains the height of > love will liberation be attained. > The experience of Self is only love, > which is seeing only love, hearing > only love, feeling only love, tasting > only love and smelling only love > which is bliss. Do you know this from experience? > > > God > > God is immanent and formless. > He is pure being and pure consciousness. > > Manifestations appears in Him and > through His power, but He is not its > creator. God never acts. He just is. > He has neither will nor desire. > > Individuality is the illusion that > we are not identical with God. When the illusion is dispelled what remains = > is God. > > God, guru and the Self are identical. > The guru is God in human form and simultaneously he is also the Self > in the heart of each devotee. > > God is. > God is within you. > God is always the first person. > The Self is God. > I am is God. > > The absolute being is. > What is? > It is the Self. > It is God. > > God and Self are synonymous for the > immanent reality which is discovered by Self-realisation. > > Thus realisation of the Self is > realisation of God. It is not an > experience of God, rather it is an understanding that one is God. > > Knowing the Self, God is known. > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > To see God is to be God. > There is no 'all' apart from God > for Him to pervade it. He alone is. > God is always the first person, > the 'I', ever standing before you. > > Because of giving precedence to worldly things, God appears to have receede= > d > to the background. > > If you give up all else and seek > Him alone, He alone will remain > as the 'I', the Self. > God does not reside in any place > other than the Heart. Be sure that > the Heart is the Kingdom of God. How would you explain the contradicion then that God is omnipresent? > > (from Mazie) ~with love Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 dear cromanyak, please elaborate on this: "How would you explain the contradicion then that God is omnipresent? " --I see no contradiction. ~with love Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, you wrote: So, its not the actual objects of the world your rejecting, but the screen of perception you hold up to it. Like for years trying to destroy a horrify picture on the wall then one day turning and realizing its source, the projector, and so your attention shifts. I don't know. Must admit I'm Ramana'a teachings are confusing to me. I think that is close enough yes, that is right. But then again, others on this list have much much more experience than me. you wrote: Can you have the true experience of tasting an orange just by hearing or reading about it. Are beliefs useful on the path? Aren't they just a substitute for "I don't know"? On the orange thing, you are right, we can never know the true taste just by reading about it but we can get an idea of it. On the path, we can get an idea of what is to come, or at least our own perception, just by reading sometimes and analizing it yourself. Also, the path sin't so black and white as the orange, you can either know the taste or not know it. Also, belief is necessary, until you reach realization, enlightenment, you cannot know that much, only really believe. It is true that much of what we do in this world is based on assumptions, but that is a necessary part of life until we get to true knowing. We can only trust God. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote: > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Namaste, > > You wrote: I'm confused, are you saying God is not all forms? > > Prem writes: You reject the forms you perceive in this world. These forms > are illusionary forms and are manifestations of the self, of God. They do > not show the true form of God though, they are illusionary. If you reject > the illusion you have the truth and the truth is God. > > You wrote: What do you use to reject all things? Your mind? If there is truly > only ONE then what is there to reject? > > Prem writes: You reject the illusion, because you perceive that this is apart > from everything, when it is truly not. Therefore, you reject your perception > of everything and what is left is truth, God, the self. So, its not the actual objects of the world your rejecting, but the screen of perception you hold up to it. Like for years trying to destroy a horrify picture on the wall then one day turning and realizing its source, the projector, and so your attention shifts. I don't know. Must admit I'm Ramana'a teachings are confusing to me. > > You wrote: Do you know this from experience? > > Prem writes: You do not have to experience everything to know it necessarily. > It may come from many sources the person has faith in, combined, and some of > his or her own experiences, into one belief like this one in this article. Can you have the true experience of tasting an orange just by hearing or reading about it. Are beliefs useful on the path? Aren't they just a substitute for "I don't know"? > > You wrote: How would you explain the contradiction then that God is > omnipresent? > > Prem writes: The heart is not the physical heart. I read something from Sri > Ramana once that, it is only said this is in the heart at the right side of > the chest to those people who cannot understand true omnipresence. The > heart, though given a location, refers to the same thing. > > Namo Ramana > > Prem > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, "satkartar5" <mi_nok> wrote: > dear cromanyak, please elaborate on this: > > "How would you explain the contradicion then that God is omnipresent? " > > --I see no contradiction. > > ~with love Karta~ There's no contradiciton. I've been informed that RAmana taught that god resides in the heart in the right side of the chest only to those devotees who couldn't grasp omniprisence. In my own words/understanding, God resides in the heart of everything as the unmanifested. with metta, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote: > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Namaste, > > you wrote: So, its not the actual objects of the world your rejecting, but > the > screen of perception you hold up to it. Like for years trying to > destroy a horrify picture on the wall then one day turning and > realizing its source, the projector, and so your attention shifts. > I don't know. Must admit I'm Ramana'a teachings are confusing to me. > > I think that is close enough yes, that is right. But then again, others on > this list have much much more experience than me. > > you wrote: Can you have the true experience of tasting an orange just by > hearing > or reading about it. Are beliefs useful on the path? Aren't they just > a substitute for "I don't know"? > > On the orange thing, you are right, we can never know the true taste just by > reading about it but we can get an idea of it. On the path, we can get an > idea of what is to come, or at least our own perception, just by reading > sometimes and analizing it yourself. Also, the path sin't so black and white > as the orange, you can either know the taste or not know it. Also, belief is > necessary, until you reach realization, enlightenment, you cannot know that > much, only really believe. It is true that much of what we do in this world > is based on assumptions, but that is a necessary part of life until we get to > true knowing. We can only trust God. > > Namo Ramana > > Prem Instead of believing something, couldn't we just abide in I Don't Know? In my experience when you say I don't know and really mean it, then inquiry arises simultaneously. Immediately the watcher arises. If you have this idea of what enlightenment is then when the real thing come are you going to hold you idea up to enlightment to see if they match? I would. And to me that's the danger of belief. with metta, Chris > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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