Who am I, Paragraph 27

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

 

Namaste,

 

I know that I asked a question about the last one of these posts, but I want

to now say something, since one specific thing was mentioned here. I

mentioned before that I had seen so many different definitions of

self-enquiry, that I didn' tknow which one was correct. The one that I found

myself practicing though, was the following:

I would continuously ask "who am I?" and not allow any thoughts to arise.

When one would arise, the question would be "to whom does this thought

arise?" and this continuous questioning of "who am I?" held me in the self,

for some reason. And then sometimes I'd go deeper into the self, for

example, I'd ask: "to whom does this sense of individuality rise?" Then I

would be deeper in the self, since now individuality was illiminated. So by

this continuous questioning throughout the day and especially in meditation

it held me in the self. Now, I don't know if this is self-enquiry or not,

but that practice certainly weakened the ego when it was in practice. So I

found it interesting that the practice of diving deep into the self was

mentioned here, because this is what i feel I did by what I explained above.

I've heard things about seeking out the "I" thought, but I have no clue how

to do any of this. The method that was most successful and worked the best

for me was that being held in the self. Is a practice like this acceptable?

 

Namo Ramana

 

Prem

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Paragraph 27

 

Not to desire anything extraneous to oneself constitutes vairaga

(dispassion) or nirasa (desirelessness). Not to give up one's hold on

the Self constitutes jnana (knowledge). But really vairaga and jnana

are one and the same. Just as the pearl diver, tying stones to his

waist, dives down into the depths and gets the pearl from the sea

bed, so every aspirant pledged to vairaga can dive deep into himself

and realize the precious Atman. If the earnest seeker would only

cultivate the constant and deep contemplative 'remembrance' (smrti)

of the true nature of the Self till he has realized it, that alone

would suffice. Distracting thoughts are like the enemy in the

fortress. As long as they are in possession of it, they will

certainly sally forth. But if, as and when they come out, you put

them to the sword the fortress will finally be captured.

 

COMMENTS

 

Dispassion is often the result of discrimination. First the seeker

sees that what is real (Atman, Brahman, Being-Consciousness-Bliss,

the Absolute, God, Buddha-mind, by what ever name) is "within." Once

the conviction that this is so gets strong enough, then the seeker

starts to look "within" rather than among the "objective."

 

I have noticed that when a seeker is at this place of practice, the

practice starts to have a different `motion,' with the seeker

being `pulled' into Being. This is like, from the Zen parable called

the 10 bulls (or 10 oxherding pictures). #6, Riding the bull home

(see

http://www.cs.sfu.ca/people/ResearchStaff/jamie/personal/10_Bulls/6.ht

ml for a classic version of this).

 

Another way of talking about this dispassion/desirelessness is that

when the seeker really starts to see where happiness comes from

(within), then the seeker will look for happiness from its source,

rather than the indirect way, from the "objective."

 

This dispassion/desirelessness ends up being effortless. It

naturally occurs once the seeker's focus turns deeply within.

 

Constant `remembrance' of the true nature of the Self is another

approach mentioned by Ramana. Even here, the seeker is told to keep

the focus on `the first (person, I-I), rather than on all of the

objects, perceptions and sensations of the world. Ramana did not

here recommend japa (repetition of a name or mantra), he mentioned a

more internal process, this `remembering.'

 

Again, distracting thoughts are talked about. As long as they "sally

forth," they will cause the seeker trouble. The seeker is advised by

the enjoinder "put them (thoughts) to the sword," to keep cutting off

the thoughts at their source (by the inquiry, "For whom are these

thoughts?).

----------

Your comments are invited.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

 

Namaste,

 

It is a lessening of the ego. When I did this practice very intensely for a

while, focusing on nothing else, for a little while after that, I felt just

like, an awareness watching the body but the body was going on with it's

actions and so was the mind but I was neither, but another thing I noticed

was a sense of timelessness, too. As I go deeper and deeper, the mind does

get quiet, yes. Unfortunately, I don't know where to find any self-realized

teachers, especially in the United States. So it is a little difficult tfor

me. I'm going by the saying that when we are ready a Guru will come but i

really don't see how that will happen, especially with being in the United

States, I highly doubt there are many here.

 

Namo Ramana

 

Prem

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Prem.

 

>I know that I asked a question about the last one of these posts,

but I want

to now say something, since one specific thing was mentioned here. I

mentioned before that I had seen so many different definitions of

self-enquiry, that I didn' t know which one was correct. <

 

My teachers descry be self-inquiry as a "formless practice." I think

that this is because it can take many forms, depending on the

tendencies and progress of the seeker. The heart of all the forms

is, I think, the focus on one's own identity, rather than all the

forms or the world and body and mind.

 

>The one that I found myself practicing though, was the following:

I would continuously ask "who am I?" and not allow any thoughts to

arise.

When one would arise, the question would be "to whom does this

thought

arise?" and this continuous questioning of "who am I?" held me in the

self,

for some reason. And then sometimes I'd go deeper into the self, for

example, I'd ask: "to whom does this sense of individuality rise?"

Then I

would be deeper in the self, since now individuality was

illiminated. So by

this continuous questioning throughout the day and especially in

meditation

it held me in the self.

 

Now, I don't know if this is self-enquiry or not, but that practice

certainly weakened the ego when it was in practice. So I found it

interesting that the practice of diving deep into the self was

mentioned here, because this is what i feel I did by what I explained

above.

I've heard things about seeking out the "I" thought, but I have no

clue how

to do any of this. The method that was most successful and worked

the best

for me was that being held in the self. Is a practice like this

acceptable?<

 

This sure seems like self-inquiry to me. What has this practice

brought you? It sound like it is a lessening of the ego idea. That

is certainly an expected part of self-inquiry. The `gaze' into your

own reality, deeper than the sense of individuality, is also

definitely in the right direction (the right direction is in

the `direction' of your own identity as Being-Consciousness-Bliss,

not the body/mind/ego/individual personality). The other question

that I would have is when the inquiry deepens, what happens to your

thinking mind? Does it become quiet? If so, again, you seem to be

on the right path.

 

When your `stand," (what you take your own identity to be) moves

from "I am this body," or "I am this mind," or "I am this separate

individual," to I am Being," then you will have come to that depth

beyond which there is no deeper.

 

As you have doubts or confusion, the best approach is to take them to

a teacher, a Self-realized sage. You can also post them here, and I

and others will respond as best we can, but the direct contact with a

sage is best.

 

I also want to encourage you to keep practicing. And finding ways to

ask questions, so you don't have to 'sit on' your doubts. Asking

questions allows you to discard them.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

[Guest guest]

Namaste Prem,

 

Lessening of the ego, timelessness, standing as the witness, these

are all signs of deepening. You are blessed to have such

experiences, and should keep going.

 

I have been studying inquiry with Nome at Society of Abidance in

Truth in Santa Cruz, CA, (He took the name, No Me, years ago. I do

not know the story. He does not tell stories about himself. He

says "Why tell personal stories about impersonal realization?") for

over ten years. I have no doubt that he is Self-realized. He teaches

Raqmana's Self-inqiury in the way that only a sage who became

realized through inquiry can. If these is any way for you to do it,

you should come to Santa Cruz, and go to satsang(s) and retreats.

 

They will be having another retreat in about a month and a half.

 

Here is a clip from an email sent to me on the retreat:

 

Next SAT retreat: Sri Ramana Maharshi Self-Realization Retreat

August 30 - September 1. For details and registration, or

to send an email inquiry to SAT (Society of Abidance in Truth)

please go to the SAT home page. www.SATRamana.org

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote:

> Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

>

> Namaste,

>

> It is a lessening of the ego. When I did this practice very

intensely for a

> while, focusing on nothing else, for a little while after that, I

felt just

> like, an awareness watching the body but the body was going on with

it's

> actions and so was the mind but I was neither, but another thing I

noticed

> was a sense of timelessness, too. As I go deeper and deeper, the

mind does

> get quiet, yes. Unfortunately, I don't know where to find any self-

realized

> teachers, especially in the United States. So it is a little

difficult tfor

> me. I'm going by the saying that when we are ready a Guru will

come but i

> really don't see how that will happen, especially with being in the

United

> States, I highly doubt there are many here.

>

> Namo Ramana

>

> Prem

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

 

Namaste,

 

I'm glad at least that I am making progress. My worst fear ina ll of this is

doing the wrong thing and not getting closer to realization because of that

mistake. no unfortunately I'm not able ot go anywhere, for certain reasons...

 

Namo Ramana

 

Prem

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

 

Namaste,

 

What is that website again? I will try to go there. yes I want a teacher

for this but I'm unable to get one unfortunately. So what is that website,

please? Thank you. yes the experiences are so wonderful, I'm trying to use

this, definitelyly.

 

Namo Ramana

 

Prem

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Prem,

 

If you are not able to travel to SAT, they record all the satsangs.

Go to their web site and get recent ones. If you are unable to do

this, perhaps I can send you something.

 

I think that it is important that you have the availablilty of

teaching from Realized teachers. You will find that the questions

and answers are also quite deep. This reflects the progress of those

that attend satsang at SAT.

 

AGain, I see the progress that you are making as a blessing. It is

important that we use those blessings that we are given.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote:

> Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

>

> Namaste,

>

> I'm glad at least that I am making progress. My worst fear ina ll

of this is

> doing the wrong thing and not getting closer to realization because

of that

> mistake. no unfortunately I'm not able ot go anywhere, for certain

reasons...

>

> Namo Ramana

>

> Prem

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

 

Namaste,

 

Thank you!!!!!! I will look at this site, this will truly be wonderful.

thank you

 

Namo Ramana

 

Prem

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Prem,

 

Go to http://www.satramana.org/tapecat.htm

 

This is a page with a listing of many tapes. Scroll to the end for

the most recent tapes.

 

As I look at the list, here are some that seem like they might be of

interest to you:

 

Satsang 1/30/00

Facets of Self-inquiry

Covers a variety of spiritual topics mentioned in the text, "Who am

I?"

 

Satsang 2/27/00

Commentaries on "Who am I?"

Initial, extensive talk contains instruction pertaining to the final

sections of the text, "Who am I?" Includes in-depth discourse on the

difference between Knowledge and mystical powers, the identity of

desirelessness and Knowledge, and the relation of meditation on

aphorisms and Self-inquiry. Dialogues on freedom from desires.

 

Satsang 5/28/00

The Reality and Negation

Focuses on the ever-existent nature of Reality, Self-Knowledge, and

Self-inquiry, inclusive of the negation of misidentifications and the

meaning of no-attainment. Dialogues on freedom from thoughts, inquiry

to know the Self, reduction and dissolution of tendencies, and

similar topics.

 

Satsang 4/22/01

Destruction of Thought

A detailed exposition on the importance of destruction of thought in

the light of Self-Knowledge. Shows how Self-inquiry accomplishes this

and enables the aspirant to eliminate all distracting thought, to

have direct experience of higher states and Consciousness itself

without thoughts, and to destroy the misidentification and tendencies

that comprise the mind. Dialogues on Self-inquiry, the real signs in

life, and transcendence of the concerns of phenomenal events.

 

Satsang 6/3/01

Tracing the "I"

Initial discourse based upon three verses of the Maharshi's Upadea

Saram (Essence of Spiritual Instruction). Traces the sense of

identity inward so that the illusion of an ego-I vanishes and the

true I, or Self, alone remains. Includes exposition of the manner of

inquiry, "Whence am I?" Dialogues on thought and inquiry, breath and

inquiry, transcendence of the senses, and other topics. This

recording is noisy due to the background presence of wood cutters,

but it is offered here because of the great depth of the teachings

presented in the spiritual "silence" of the satsang hall

 

 

Satsang 2/3/02

Existence

Initial discourse on the nature of Existence as the background or

substrate of all and as it is in itself. Shows how Self-inquiry

reveals the nature of Existence as it is. Dialogues on liberation

from the senses and prana, proper application of spiritual effort,

and other topics.

 

There are many others. Each is a precious jewel. Each one is the

best.

 

There is a tape order form on the site as well. I think these

teachings will be of deep benefit to your practice, inquiry and

realization.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

RamanaMaharshi, inneruniverse555@a... wrote:

> Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

>

> Namaste,

>

> What is that website again? I will try to go there. yes I want a

teacher

> for this but I'm unable to get one unfortunately. So what is that

website,

> please? Thank you. yes the experiences are so wonderful, I'm

trying to use

> this, definitelyly.

>

> Namo Ramana

>

> Prem

>

>

>