Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 Paragraph 29 Firm and disciplined inherence in the Atman, without giving the least scope for the rise of any thought other than the deep contemplative thought of the Self, constitutes self-surrender to the Supreme Lord. Let any amount of burden be laid on Him, He will bear it all. It is, in fact, the indefinable power of the Lord that ordains, sustains, and controls everything that happens. Why then should we worry, tormented by vexatious thoughts, saying: 'Shall we act this way? No, that way,' instead of meekly but happily submitting to that Power? Knowing that the train carries all the weight, why indeed should we, the passengers traveling in it, carry our small individual articles of luggage on our laps to our great discomfort, instead of putting them aside and sitting at perfect ease? COMMENTS Ramana here talks about surrender. You should note that when Ramana discusses surrender, the surrender he describes is complete. The seeker surrenders ego focuses entirely upon the Self, the Supreme Lord. After this surrender there is no such thing as letting ego drive the seeker's choices, the ego is surrendered, and is no longer active. Then the seeker is advised to treat their individual cares, concerns and doubts like the luggage carried on the train. Put them down, the train that carries the seeker carries all the baggage as well. ------------------------------ Your comments are invited. We are Not two, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 Aloha Alton, This paragrahp makes me thin that Nisargadatta's approach was really surrender (not japa, repetition). What do you think? We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> wrote: > Paragraph 29 > > Firm and disciplined inherence in the Atman, without giving the least > scope for the rise of any thought other than the deep contemplative > thought of the Self, constitutes self-surrender to the Supreme Lord. > Let any amount of burden be laid on Him, He will bear it all. It is, > in fact, the indefinable power of the Lord that ordains, sustains, > and controls everything that happens. Why then should we worry, > tormented by vexatious thoughts, saying: 'Shall we act this way? No, > that way,' instead of meekly but happily submitting to that Power? > Knowing that the train carries all the weight, why indeed should we, > the passengers traveling in it, carry our small individual articles > of luggage on our laps to our great discomfort, instead of putting > them aside and sitting at perfect ease? > > COMMENTS > > Ramana here talks about surrender. You should note that when Ramana > discusses surrender, the surrender he describes is complete. The > seeker surrenders ego focuses entirely upon the Self, the Supreme > Lord. After this surrender there is no such thing as letting ego > drive the seeker's choices, the ego is surrendered, and is no longer > active. > > Then the seeker is advised to treat their individual cares, concerns > and doubts like the luggage carried on the train. Put them down, the > train that carries the seeker carries all the baggage as well. > > ------------------------------ > Your comments are invited. > > We are Not two, > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Dear Richard: Thanks much for you very erudite answers to my questions. Right now there is a very loud TV going next to me so I will have to answer this question tomorrow. Aloha, Alton RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> wrote: > Aloha Alton, > > This paragrahp makes me thin that Nisargadatta's approach was really > surrender (not japa, repetition). What do you think? > > We are Not two, > Richard > > RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> > wrote: > > Paragraph 29 > > > > Firm and disciplined inherence in the Atman, without giving the > least > > scope for the rise of any thought other than the deep contemplative > > thought of the Self, constitutes self-surrender to the Supreme > Lord. > > Let any amount of burden be laid on Him, He will bear it all. It > is, > > in fact, the indefinable power of the Lord that ordains, sustains, > > and controls everything that happens. Why then should we worry, > > tormented by vexatious thoughts, saying: 'Shall we act this way? > No, > > that way,' instead of meekly but happily submitting to that Power? > > Knowing that the train carries all the weight, why indeed should > we, > > the passengers traveling in it, carry our small individual articles > > of luggage on our laps to our great discomfort, instead of putting > > them aside and sitting at perfect ease? > > > > COMMENTS > > > > Ramana here talks about surrender. You should note that when > Ramana > > discusses surrender, the surrender he describes is complete. The > > seeker surrenders ego focuses entirely upon the Self, the Supreme > > Lord. After this surrender there is no such thing as letting ego > > drive the seeker's choices, the ego is surrendered, and is no > longer > > active. > > > > Then the seeker is advised to treat their individual cares, > concerns > > and doubts like the luggage carried on the train. Put them down, > the > > train that carries the seeker carries all the baggage as well. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Your comments are invited. > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Richard this kind of 'view" a state to relaxing in one's center: in 'aware-being' and act from the 'hara' (so to speak), what I called to be one with god's will TO KNOW that without missing a beat; no gap of thought, but spontaneous surrender is a good way to approach non-duality for my intellect. by the way this can be instantanious. <smile> to upkeep it is an other thing.. (Mark plug your ears) what do you think? ~hope you don't mind me partcipating in this conversation Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> wrote: > Aloha Alton, > > This paragrahp makes me thin that Nisargadatta's approach was really > surrender (not japa, repetition). What do you think? > > We are Not two, > Richard > > RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> > wrote: > > Paragraph 29 > > > > Firm and disciplined inherence in the Atman, without giving the > least > > scope for the rise of any thought other than the deep contemplative > > thought of the Self, constitutes self-surrender to the Supreme > Lord. > > Let any amount of burden be laid on Him, He will bear it all. It > is, > > in fact, the indefinable power of the Lord that ordains, sustains, > > and controls everything that happens. Why then should we worry, > > tormented by vexatious thoughts, saying: 'Shall we act this way? > No, > > that way,' instead of meekly but happily submitting to that Power? > > Knowing that the train carries all the weight, why indeed should > we, > > the passengers traveling in it, carry our small individual articles > > of luggage on our laps to our great discomfort, instead of putting > > them aside and sitting at perfect ease? > > > > COMMENTS > > > > Ramana here talks about surrender. You should note that when > Ramana > > discusses surrender, the surrender he describes is complete. The > > seeker surrenders ego focuses entirely upon the Self, the Supreme > > Lord. After this surrender there is no such thing as letting ego > > drive the seeker's choices, the ego is surrendered, and is no > longer > > active. > > > > Then the seeker is advised to treat their individual cares, > concerns > > and doubts like the luggage carried on the train. Put them down, > the > > train that carries the seeker carries all the baggage as well. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Your comments are invited. > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Dear Karta, Surrender is certainly one of the means to 'get to the other side.' The issue for me is that you describe it as something htat needs "upkeep." This means that your deep experiences come and go. I have come to understand that 'coming and going' are evidence of the need for deep(er) inquiry. In my case, this coming and going have to do with body-identification. Even though I have inquired on this many times in many ways, the inquiry is not yet finished and the tendencies remain. The point of spiritual practice is to 'become' who we are. When the Knowledge of who is are is firm, then there is no 'coming and going.' We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "satkartar5" <mi_nok> wrote: > Richard this kind of 'view" a state to relaxing in one's center: in 'aware-being' and act from the 'hara' (so to speak), what I called to be one with god's will TO KNOW that without missing a beat; no gap of thought, but spontaneous surrender is a good way to approach non- duality for my intellect. by the way this can be instantanious. <smile> to upkeep it is an other thing.. (Mark plug your ears) > > what do you think? > > ~hope you don't mind me partcipating in this conversation Karta~ > > RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> wrote: > > Aloha Alton, > > > > This paragrahp makes me thin that Nisargadatta's approach was really > > surrender (not japa, repetition). What do you think? > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> > > wrote: > > > Paragraph 29 > > > > > > Firm and disciplined inherence in the Atman, without giving the > > least > > > scope for the rise of any thought other than the deep contemplative > > > thought of the Self, constitutes self-surrender to the Supreme > > Lord. > > > Let any amount of burden be laid on Him, He will bear it all. It > > is, > > > in fact, the indefinable power of the Lord that ordains, sustains, > > > and controls everything that happens. Why then should we worry, > > > tormented by vexatious thoughts, saying: 'Shall we act this way? > > No, > > > that way,' instead of meekly but happily submitting to that Power? > > > Knowing that the train carries all the weight, why indeed should > > we, > > > the passengers traveling in it, carry our small individual articles > > > of luggage on our laps to our great discomfort, instead of putting > > > them aside and sitting at perfect ease? > > > > > > COMMENTS > > > > > > Ramana here talks about surrender. You should note that when > > Ramana > > > discusses surrender, the surrender he describes is complete. The > > > seeker surrenders ego focuses entirely upon the Self, the Supreme > > > Lord. After this surrender there is no such thing as letting ego > > > drive the seeker's choices, the ego is surrendered, and is no > > longer > > > active. > > > > > > Then the seeker is advised to treat their individual cares, > > concerns > > > and doubts like the luggage carried on the train. Put them down, > > the > > > train that carries the seeker carries all the baggage as well. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Your comments are invited. > > > > > > We are Not two, > > > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Richard asked: "This paragraph makes me think that Nisargadatta's approach was really surrender (not japa, repetition). What do you think? Alton replies: I have read Nisargadatta's books over many times and also "Talks and an Obborne book. Also everything ascribed to Ramana that has been posted on the groups. Nisargadatta gave many techniques for practice including "Who am I", but he preferred "What Am I" which is essentially the same. I conclude that, although the techniqes may very slightly, they both point to the eternal presense that is who we are. Nisargadatta recommeded meditation was first repetition on "I Am" with internal words and then in his later dialogues is was done silently. So, as far I can can see it, they both aim at the same thing. Both suggest IMO to put your attention on you attention. When you look at a picture of Nisargadatta you get the impression that he is doing exactly that. During the day I notice I am not doing exactly that. Most of my day is spend, planning, judging, evaluating, remembering and being distracted by mental image pictures in my mind. It's all about training to be in the present time. "We shall overcome someday". Hoping that it will be sooner than later. Aloha Alton RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Dear Richard: > Thanks much for you very erudite answers to my questions. > Right now there is a very loud TV going next to me so I will have to > answer this question tomorrow. > Aloha, > Alton > > RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> > wrote: > > Aloha Alton, > > > > This paragrahp makes me thin that Nisargadatta's approach was > really > > surrender (not japa, repetition). What do you think? > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...> > > wrote: > > > Paragraph 29 > > > > > > Firm and disciplined inherence in the Atman, without giving the > > least > > > scope for the rise of any thought other than the deep > contemplative > > > thought of the Self, constitutes self-surrender to the Supreme > > Lord. > > > Let any amount of burden be laid on Him, He will bear it all. It > > is, > > > in fact, the indefinable power of the Lord that ordains, > sustains, > > > and controls everything that happens. Why then should we worry, > > > tormented by vexatious thoughts, saying: 'Shall we act this way? > > No, > > > that way,' instead of meekly but happily submitting to that > Power? > > > Knowing that the train carries all the weight, why indeed should > > we, > > > the passengers traveling in it, carry our small individual > articles > > > of luggage on our laps to our great discomfort, instead of > putting > > > them aside and sitting at perfect ease? > > > > > > COMMENTS > > > > > > Ramana here talks about surrender. You should note that when > > Ramana > > > discusses surrender, the surrender he describes is complete. The > > > seeker surrenders ego focuses entirely upon the Self, the Supreme > > > Lord. After this surrender there is no such thing as letting ego > > > drive the seeker's choices, the ego is surrendered, and is no > > longer > > > active. > > > > > > Then the seeker is advised to treat their individual cares, > > concerns > > > and doubts like the luggage carried on the train. Put them down, > > the > > > train that carries the seeker carries all the baggage as well. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Your comments are invited. > > > > > > We are Not two, > > > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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