Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Paragraph 33 This phenomenal world, however, is nothing but thought. When the world recedes from one's view -- that is when one is free from thought -- the mind enjoys the Bliss of the Self. Conversely, when the world appears -- that is when thought occurs -- the mind experiences pain and anguish. COMMENTS This teaching is one that seekers sometimes have trouble with. The world is nothing but thought. Certainly if one looks at this closely from a subjective point of view, all one knows of the world is from the senses as interpreted through the mind and intellect. That is the easy explanation. This is something that you can look at closely in your own meditation. One example that Ramana would give uses the deep sleep state. There the mind is not active and there is no world. Another meditative approach is to look at your dreams. There is a world in the dream. Where does this world come from? The deepest Advaita Vedanta view is that only that which is constant, always true, etc. is real. This means that what is real is Being- Consciousness-Bliss (the Self), and that the world, the body, the senses, the life-energy, and the mind are not real. Another view of inquiry (and spiritual practice) is to merely look at "what is real." Here Ramana goes on to identify the world with the mind. So much so that when the world and mind are not active, then one enjoys the Bliss of Self. When the mind is active, one suffers. ----- Your comments are invited. We are Not two, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Hi Richard, My humble submission would be to find out 'who is saying all these descriptions'. Are there really so many things as 'I, mind, happiness, suffering, bliss, world ....'. That for me is the boundary condition, can not escape. Did we just assume some things (back in time) and weaving on top of them. Thanks & regards, Vatsa richard_clarke95125 wrote: > Paragraph 33 > > This phenomenal world, however, is nothing but thought. When the > world recedes from one's view -- that is when one is free from > thought -- the mind enjoys the Bliss of the Self. Conversely, when > the world appears -- that is when thought occurs -- the mind > experiences pain and anguish. > > COMMENTS > > This teaching is one that seekers sometimes have trouble with. The > world is nothing but thought. Certainly if one looks at this closely > from a subjective point of view, all one knows of the world is from > the senses as interpreted through the mind and intellect. That is > the easy explanation. This is something that you can look at closely > in your own meditation. > > One example that Ramana would give uses the deep sleep state. There > the mind is not active and there is no world. Another meditative > approach is to look at your dreams. There is a world in the dream. > Where does this world come from? > > The deepest Advaita Vedanta view is that only that which is constant, > always true, etc. is real. This means that what is real is Being- > Consciousness-Bliss (the Self), and that the world, the body, the > senses, the life-energy, and the mind are not real. > Another view of inquiry (and spiritual practice) is to merely look > at "what is real." > > Here Ramana goes on to identify the world with the mind. So much so > that when the world and mind are not active, then one enjoys the > Bliss of Self. When the mind is active, one suffers. > > ----- > Your comments are invited. > > We are Not two, > Richard > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi- > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Hi Vatsa, Of course, it is only from the stand as body/senses/mind/ego that there are all there sepatate things. And asking "for whom are these?" is called for. Ramana said that these things arise because of tendencies, the merest notion of an idea. These start with the "I"-thought, then all else are constructed 'on top' of that first error of an idea. For whom is the "I"-thought? Where does the sense of reality come from? We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, Srivatsa Krishnaswamy <vatsa@i...> wrote: > Hi Richard, > My humble submission would be to find out 'who is saying all these > descriptions'. Are there really so many things as 'I, mind, happiness, > suffering, bliss, world ....'. That for me is the boundary condition, can not > escape. Did we just assume some things (back in time) and weaving on top of > them. > Thanks & regards, > Vatsa > > > richard_clarke95125 wrote: > > > Paragraph 33 > > > > This phenomenal world, however, is nothing but thought. When the > > world recedes from one's view -- that is when one is free from > > thought -- the mind enjoys the Bliss of the Self. Conversely, when > > the world appears -- that is when thought occurs -- the mind > > experiences pain and anguish. > > > > COMMENTS > > > > This teaching is one that seekers sometimes have trouble with. The > > world is nothing but thought. Certainly if one looks at this closely > > from a subjective point of view, all one knows of the world is from > > the senses as interpreted through the mind and intellect. That is > > the easy explanation. This is something that you can look at closely > > in your own meditation. > > > > One example that Ramana would give uses the deep sleep state. There > > the mind is not active and there is no world. Another meditative > > approach is to look at your dreams. There is a world in the dream. > > Where does this world come from? > > > > The deepest Advaita Vedanta view is that only that which is constant, > > always true, etc. is real. This means that what is real is Being- > > Consciousness-Bliss (the Self), and that the world, the body, the > > senses, the life-energy, and the mind are not real. > > Another view of inquiry (and spiritual practice) is to merely look > > at "what is real." > > > > Here Ramana goes on to identify the world with the mind. So much so > > that when the world and mind are not active, then one enjoys the > > Bliss of Self. When the mind is active, one suffers. > > > > ----- > > Your comments are invited. > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o... > > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > > Un: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner@o... > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Hi Richard, You are correct as regards the original idea which originated from the Unknowable. At any point of time (in thought space, since time is mere creation of mind), it is possible to look at the whole thing as an error which should be attributed to the Truth which obviously is untenable because such errors do not emanate from the Original One. I am using a bit of Aurobindo's philosophy which distinguishes 'Transcending' from killing of mind and thoughts. These lower level objects have a place in bottommost layers of consciousness and contribute to the Leela or the play where ignorance is an essential pretension. The reason why we suffer is because our entire reasoning is one of impatience and division of Truth/Untruth. Also, our reasoning is based on 'past' whereas what is needed is silent (helpless) observation which then facilitates a fresh navigation into one's own mind's uncharted recesses and transforms it. This can be an active process happening all the time and can not be demanded or desired. The gift and release that the mind gets is far more than it can imagine. Of course, this is all about the mind stuff and as such we are already separate from it. The processes can go on as long as it is necessary. regards, Vatsa richard_clarke95125 wrote: > Hi Vatsa, > > Of course, it is only from the stand as body/senses/mind/ego that > there are all there sepatate things. And asking "for whom are > these?" is called for. > > Ramana said that these things arise because of tendencies, the merest > notion of an idea. These start with the "I"-thought, then all else > are constructed 'on top' of that first error of an idea. For whom is > the "I"-thought? Where does the sense of reality come from? > > We are Not two, > Richard > > RamanaMaharshi, Srivatsa Krishnaswamy <vatsa@i...> wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > My humble submission would be to find out 'who is saying all these > > descriptions'. Are there really so many things as 'I, mind, > happiness, > > suffering, bliss, world ....'. That for me is the boundary > condition, can not > > escape. Did we just assume some things (back in time) and weaving > on top of > > them. > > Thanks & regards, > > Vatsa > > > > > > richard_clarke95125 wrote: > > > > > Paragraph 33 > > > > > > This phenomenal world, however, is nothing but thought. When the > > > world recedes from one's view -- that is when one is free from > > > thought -- the mind enjoys the Bliss of the Self. Conversely, when > > > the world appears -- that is when thought occurs -- the mind > > > experiences pain and anguish. > > > > > > COMMENTS > > > > > > This teaching is one that seekers sometimes have trouble with. > The > > > world is nothing but thought. Certainly if one looks at this > closely > > > from a subjective point of view, all one knows of the world is > from > > > the senses as interpreted through the mind and intellect. That is > > > the easy explanation. This is something that you can look at > closely > > > in your own meditation. > > > > > > One example that Ramana would give uses the deep sleep state. > There > > > the mind is not active and there is no world. Another meditative > > > approach is to look at your dreams. There is a world in the > dream. > > > Where does this world come from? > > > > > > The deepest Advaita Vedanta view is that only that which is > constant, > > > always true, etc. is real. This means that what is real is Being- > > > Consciousness-Bliss (the Self), and that the world, the body, the > > > senses, the life-energy, and the mind are not real. > > > Another view of inquiry (and spiritual practice) is to merely look > > > at "what is real." > > > > > > Here Ramana goes on to identify the world with the mind. So much > so > > > that when the world and mind are not active, then one enjoys the > > > Bliss of Self. When the mind is active, one suffers. > > > > > > ----- > > > Your comments are invited. > > > > > > We are Not two, > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o... > > > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > > > Un: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > > > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner@o... > > > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi- > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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