David Godman-Ramana's books:authenticity andreliability - repost

[Guest guest]

Dear Miles,

 

I think the crucial thing here is the order of the

events:

 

1. Trace the I-thought to its source.

 

2. All thoughts vanish.

 

3. A throb arises from the heart center.

 

4. Watch that place.

 

In other words, you find the heart by tracing

the I-thought. You do not find the heart by

focusing on the right side of the physical chest.

 

The seeker is told to focus on the heart center only

after it announces itself -- after the sphurana appears.

 

I think this may be important, for reasons I'll

state at the end of this message.

 

> > This is a clear statement...or is it?

 

It seems clear to me. What's unclear?

 

> In any case, it is the experience of some who

> practice atmavicara that the irresistible pull to a

> specific point, namely the Hridaya on the right side,

> results in a 'deliberate' watching, followed by a

> spontaneous revelation.

 

Yes I know. It has not happened to me but I have

read several accounts of this and it's consistent with

Bhagavan's own remarks. This is not what I question

in Arthur Osborne's writings. What Arthur said was

that beginners, before they have felt the heart center,

should try to find it by focusing attention on the right

side of the chest. I am increasingly doubtful that this

is an accurate description of Bhagavan's teaching.

 

> Whether one starts with attention focussed on the Hridaya is

> immaterial.

 

I think it may be very material. That's why I'm

belaboring this point.

 

The problem is this:

 

If a person tries to focus on the heart center before it

announces itself with the sphurana, then they may

imagine a heart center. Instead of falling into the

real one, they may imagine something. Then they

focus on that imaginary something. It remains an

object and their sense of subjecthood remains intact.

In other words, they end up doing the kind of meditation

that's common in Tantric Yoga and Tai Chi.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob

[Guest guest]

Dear Everybody,

 

Here's a passage from Talks that addresses this point

precisely.

 

(Alton: regarding focus, he says "hold fast to this 'I'".)

 

Best regards,

 

Rob

.....................

 

>From Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi, article 131:

 

D.: There are said to be six organs of different colours in

the chest, of which the heart is said to be two finger-breadths

to the right of the middle line. But the Heart is also formless.

Should we then imagine it to have a shape and meditate on it?

 

M.: No. Only the quest "Who am I?" is necessary. What

remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same.

But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove

it. Asked who wakes up from sleep you say 'I'. Now you

are told to hold fast to this 'I'. If it is done the eternal being

will reveal Itself. Investigation of 'I' is the point and not

meditation on the heart-centre. There is nothing like

within or without. Both mean either the same thing or

nothing.

 

Of course there is also the practice of meditation on the

heart-centre. It is only a practice and not investigation.

Only the one who meditates on the heart can remain aware

when the mind ceases to be active and remains still; whereas

those who meditate on other centres cannot be so aware but

infer that the mind was still only after it becomes again

active.

...........................

[Guest guest]

om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya

 

Dear Rob,

 

> 1. Trace the I-thought to its source.

>

> 2. All thoughts vanish.

>

> 3. A throb arises from the heart center.

>

> 4. Watch that place.

 

Indeed. This is exactly what happens.

 

Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan,

Miles