Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 Dear Markandeya: I am not going to claim that I am purer than you are because I have the same model about charging money for spiritual teachings that you have. However I now look to my reactions about the aforesaid. What is causing me to react? Is my peace of mind being affected? Would Ramana criticize those who charge for the Dharma? Rob can tell us if there is any mention of that in the literature. For me this spiritual journey is finding out what models or mental tendencies I have that cause me to react and take away the silence of mind. Richard has deepened his practice in the company of Nome and evidently has no qualms about paying money for his teachings. Richard has freely shared his teacher's wisdom and techniques with us free of charge. Why the need to invalid someone's spiritual teacher? If someone who charges money for spiritual teachings does not interest you, so be it. I am sure that if you contacted Nome and told him that you would like some of his tapes free because you just cant afford them, he would not turn you down. Is that right Richard? Loving Sri Ramana aka Alton Slater RamanaMaharshi, "M" <trika@b...> wrote: > > > Dear M, > > This is the only Nome that I know of, He offers satsang in > California. He asks for a donation of $15. Those who are unable to > offer this are let in free. He does not "sell" enlightnment. He > offers satsang and retreats. The retreats are typically 3 days, > include food and cost, I think $295. > > > Here is the website for Nome's ashram http://www.satramana.org/ > > As you will see, there is a hefty yearly fee for membership, and things like tapes and books are around 30.00 each and up. Go to the site and call or e-mail for a SAT (Society for Abidance in Truth) package to be sent to your home, and you will see for yourselves the costs and commercialization of the organization. > > Truth is truth, a true Guru gives freely, abundantly, with no gain but what comes unbidded by God's grace alone. > > Guru Om, > Markandeya Gurudas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 Dear Alton, > Rob can tell us if there is any mention of that in > literature. You give me too much credit. I'm not an expert on the Ramana literature. Occasionally, something I read here reminds me of something I've read elsewhere -- that's all. (Incidentally, David Godman does have an encyclopedic knowledge of the Ramana literature. For this reason, the introductory essays to each chapter in his anthology "Be As You Are" are extraordinarily valuable.) About this question of gurus who charge money, a few things come to mind. First, Sri Ramana was sometimes asked how we can identify a competent guru. He gave two criteria: in the presence of a competent guru, we feel (a) peace and (b) respect. For example, see Talks article 282. As far as I know, he never mentioned that we should take into account whether a guru charges for his services. Second, if I recall correctly, Sri Ramana said on at least one occasion that we should never criticize other people's gurus, because gurus are able to function as the Guru merely by the faith placed in them by their devotees. In other words, it is the devotees' faith and not some intrinsic quality of the guru that turns somebody into the Guru. Unfortunately I can't find the quotation at the moment, so I may not remember this correctly, and my paraphrase here may be incorrect. Third, Sri Ramana's ashram was open to the public for free, and he himself was available for free public darshan, almost until the last minute of his life. Fourth, many of Bhagavan's devotees believed that his ashram was supported financially by a steady stream of miraculous coincidences in which donations would materialize at exactly the right time without anybody requesting them. The Ramana literature is filled with anecdotes about this sort of event. For examples involving big sums of money, see the accounts of fund-raising for buildings in "Living By The Words of Bhagavan." For a very beautiful example involving pickles, see page 118 of "Power of the Presence Part 3." Given this stream of coincidental donations, it seems that Sri Ramana's ashram had no need to charge money or ask for donations. Regards, Rob - "Alton Slater" <leenalton <RamanaMaharshi> Wednesday, September 18, 2002 4:57 PM [RamanaMaharshi] Markandeya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 First, Sri Ramana was sometimes asked how we can identify a competent guru. He gave two criteria: in the presence of a competent guru, we feel (a) peace and (b) respect. For example, see Talks article 282. As far as I know, he never mentioned that we should take into account whether a guru charges for his services. >That does not mean that it is not so. Simply becuse Bhagavan Ramana did not say something about a subject does not make it a falsehood. No one person has covered every subject pertaining to humanity. That is not possible. One is supposed to use discrimination and discretion based on Bhagavan Ramana's teachings, not live blindly by his words and his words only, to the exclusion of all other thought. It is Bhagavan's spirit of teaching, the principles, that are to be emulated, not verbatim word for word. His very teaching was to inquire for oneself, you should know that. Second, if I recall correctly, Sri Ramana said on at least one occasion that we should never criticize other people's gurus, because gurus are able to function as the Guru merely by the faith placed in them by their devotees. >If, by saying that he charges, and charges abundantly, and that this is looked upon by myself and others with scrutiny, and rightly so, then you could say this has been a criticism. Bear in mind that there has been no accusation of wrongdoing, only of charging lots of money. There are one thousand quotes (at least) from various Upanishads, Puranas, Shastras, etc...that warn of one calling himself the Guru and holding out his hand. The true Guru, according to Scripture, gives, not demands. In fact, My original response was because given out because Nomes name was dropped as if that gave this other lady more credibility. Name dropping is in poor taste, one should stand on one's own merits. I could speak of my association with great spiritual leaders, but for what purpose and to what ends? This is all ego-speak. In other words, it is the devotees' faith and not some intrinsic quality of the guru that turns somebody into the Guru. >It takes a lit candle to light another Third, Sri Ramana's ashram was open to the public for free, and he himself was available for free public darshan, almost until the last minute of his life. >Thank you for making my point Fourth, many of Bhagavan's devotees believed that his ashram was supported financially by a steady stream of miraculous coincidences in which donations would materialize at exactly the right time without anybody requesting them. The Ramana literature is filled with anecdotes about this sort of event. For examples involving big sums of money, see the accounts of fund-raising for buildings in "Living By The Words of Bhagavan." For a very beautiful example involving pickles, see page 118 of "Power of the Presence Part 3." Given this stream of coincidental donations, it seems that Sri Ramana's ashram had no need to charge money or ask for donations. >Thank you again for really making my point Guru Om Markandeya Gurudas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 Dear Sri Markandeya Gurudas, > It takes a lit candle to light another I agree with you. In fact I agree with almost everything you said. My own idea of a Guru is somebody whose presence has the effects that Bhagavan's presence did. If anybody knows of such a person, please send me an email. >You need a sherpa guide to get to them In my earlier message I was only trying to supply some facts. For some reason I didn't feel like expressing an opinion. >Thank you for this e-mail. Everything, even differences of outlook can be strengths of a people when spoken with respect. From a personal perspective, everytime these hands reach out to people, my needs are met, as are the needs of this small house from which it all happens from...all comes ubidded when works are done without the want of name, fame, or money. It is one of the great subtle ironies of the movement of Shakti. My own Bhagavan Nityananda and Mahatma Gandhi are close to my heart in this respect. Guru Om Markandeya Gurudas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Dear Markandeya: I am not going to claim that I am purer than you are because I have the same model about charging money for spiritual teachings that you have. However I now look to my reactions about the aforesaid. >>Purity and impurity are both products of the mind. There is only God, only perfection. -------------------- What is causing me to react? Is my peace of mind being affected? Would Ramana criticize those who charge for the Dharma? Rob can tell us if there is any mention of that in the literature. >>You are doing it again, going verbatim by every word of Ramana rather than catching the spirit of Ramana. And yes, he did criticize people, more than once. I personally remember an account when he criticized a fellow for not eating rice at his ashram because his narrow beliefs only allowed him to eat chappati. Ramana's thoughts on the subject were that the gentleman was blindly sticking to ancient rules rather than giving his body the little sustenance it needed. For me this spiritual journey is finding out what models or mental tendencies I have that cause me to react and take away the silence of mind. Richard has deepened his practice in the company of Nome and evidently has no qualms about paying money for his teachings. Richard has freely shared his teacher's wisdom and techniques with us free of charge. Why the need to invalid someone's spiritual teacher? >>I have not once called him invalid, you have in fact. I have only stated that he has a fat bank account. I will leave it up to you and the rest to judge if that is good or bad. And I will state again that he has, along with his partner there at SAT, both high prices and a large bank account. Now do with this what you want, but do not put words in my mouth again. ------------------ If someone who charges money for spiritual teachings does not interest you, so be it. >>Do not tell me when to be silent, not ever --- I am sure that if you contacted Nome and told him that you would like some of his tapes free because you just cant afford them, he would not turn you down. Is that right Richard? >>I have, and he did turn me down. Actually, I asked if he could send them to me and let me pay them later as I am poor and have many people I take care of. I was told that the items would happily be sent once I had saved the money for them. This was in late 99-early 2000 Loving Sri Ramana aka Alton Slater >>Perhaps you should meditate on the above signature more Guru Om Markandeya Gurudas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Dear M, Just one breif comment. There is no fat bank account at SAT, and no sages lining their pockets with money. As far as I know they are able to meet the monthly temple bills, and have little extra. What extra they do have they use for such things as translating and publishing books like "Song of Ribhu," the Tamil Ribhu Gita. They do this because it is useful to seekers, not to make money. If they wanted to make money perhaps they would use the energy and publish some popular book that appeals to egos. The sages avoid self-promotion, and continue to focus on making Ramana's teachings available to those who come. Perhaps it is different for those who live and teach in an area which is a high cost area like California than those in India. Perhaps that is why SAT asks for donations. The financial support at SAT comes from people who appreciate the quality and depth of the teaching. It is not a club, but rather a place for serious seekers who imbibe Ramana Maharshi's precious teachings, and who seriously undertake their own practice of inquiry. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "M" <trika@b...> wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 You know best. Thank you for your brief comment, and continued success in your efforts. GuruOm Markandeya Gurudas - Richard Clarke RamanaMaharshi Friday, September 20, 2002 7:27 AM [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Markandeya Dear M, Just one breif comment. There is no fat bank account at SAT, and no sages lining their pockets with money. As far as I know they are able to meet the monthly temple bills, and have little extra. What extra they do have they use for such things as translating and publishing books like "Song of Ribhu," the Tamil Ribhu Gita. They do this because it is useful to seekers, not to make money. If they wanted to make money perhaps they would use the energy and publish some popular book that appeals to egos. The sages avoid self-promotion, and continue to focus on making Ramana's teachings available to those who come. Perhaps it is different for those who live and teach in an area which is a high cost area like California than those in India. Perhaps that is why SAT asks for donations. The financial support at SAT comes from people who appreciate the quality and depth of the teaching. It is not a club, but rather a place for serious seekers who imbibe Ramana Maharshi's precious teachings, and who seriously undertake their own practice of inquiry. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "M" <trika@b...> wrote: Sponsor Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Dear Markandeya, Thank you for your good wishes. May I offer you the same. I think we are united in our desire for liberation. I treasure the teachers who support us. Speaking for myself, I have needed this support. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "M" <trika@b...> wrote: > You know best. Thank you for your brief comment, and continued success in your efforts. > > GuruOm > Markandeya Gurudas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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