Guest guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 If concentration is made with the brain, sensations of heat and even headache ensue. Concentration has to be made in the heart, which is cool and refreshing. Relax and your meditation will be easy. Keep your mind steady by gently warding off all intruding thoughts, but without strain - soon you will succeed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ S.S. Cohen: Guru Ramana ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 Dear Gabriele: Does this statement ascribed to Bhagavan from the Sadhu Natanananda post conflict with that which is presented in the SS Cohen post? Bhagavan: It is not an effortless state. All mundane activities which are ordinarily called effort are performed with the aid of a portion of the mind and with frequent breaks. But the act of communion with the Self, or remaining still inwardly, is intense activity which is performed with the entire mind and without break Alton: Is not the intense activity, effort with the mind? Can the mind work without the brain? TIA, Aloha, SADHU SLATER RamanaMaharshi, "Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > If concentration is made with the brain, > sensations of heat and even headache ensue. > Concentration has to be made in the heart, > which is cool and refreshing. > Relax and your meditation will be easy. > Keep your mind steady by gently warding off > all intruding thoughts, but without strain - > soon you will succeed. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > S.S. Cohen: Guru Ramana > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 Dear Alton, Perhaps first the context has to be seen. The Cohen quote is an answer Bhagavan's to the following question: "Bhagavan, whenever I meditate, I feel great heat in the head and, if I persist, my whole body burns. What is the remedy?" The questioner did some meditation practice (perhaps yoga-practice) with strong concentration in the head which caused him some trouble. Ramana recommended to keep concentration in the heart instead - in a gentle and more relaxing way. In self-enquiry, when the source of the ego is sought, concentration is in the Heart, as the ego springs from there. To ward off intruding thoughts concentration always needs to come back to the Heart. This is first done by effort of the mind. All effort is always of the mind. When the mind enters the Heart - first by effort, then more and more by itself and effortlessly - the mind vanishes and only the Source remains. But effort should not be in the brain as the brain is not the natural seat of the I - but the Heart. Vichara is no brain-work - if it would be then you would be right that concentration is in the brain - but Heart-work - so to say. Perhaps someone else can explain it better. in HIM Gabriele > > Does this statement ascribed to Bhagavan from the Sadhu Natanananda > post conflict with that which is presented in the SS Cohen post? > > Bhagavan: It is not an effortless state. All mundane activities which > are ordinarily called effort are performed with the aid of a portion > of the mind and with frequent breaks. But the act of communion with > the Self, or remaining still inwardly, is intense activity which is > performed with the entire mind and without break > > Alton: > Is not the intense activity, effort with the mind? Can the mind work > without the brain? > > TIA, > Aloha, > SADHU SLATER > > > RamanaMaharshi, "Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > > If concentration is made with the brain, > > sensations of heat and even headache ensue. > > Concentration has to be made in the heart, > > which is cool and refreshing. > > Relax and your meditation will be easy. > > Keep your mind steady by gently warding off > > all intruding thoughts, but without strain - > > soon you will succeed. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > S.S. Cohen: Guru Ramana > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 a PS: The "entire mind" in Ramana's quote, is the pure mind. The mind is sattva when in communion with the Self. This is also an important aspect to see. RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > Dear Alton, > > Perhaps first the context has to be seen. > The Cohen quote is an answer Bhagavan's to the following question: > "Bhagavan, whenever I meditate, I feel great heat in the head and, if > I persist, my whole body burns. What is the remedy?" > > The questioner did some meditation practice (perhaps yoga-practice) > with strong concentration in the head which caused him some trouble. > Ramana recommended to keep concentration in the heart instead - in a > gentle and more relaxing way. > > In self-enquiry, when the source of the ego is sought, concentration > is in the Heart, as the ego springs from there. To ward off intruding > thoughts concentration always needs to come back to the Heart. > This is first done by effort of the mind. > All effort is always of the mind. When the mind enters the Heart - > first by effort, then more and more by itself and effortlessly - the > mind vanishes and only the Source remains. > But effort should not be in the brain as the brain is not the natural > seat of the I - but the Heart. Vichara is no brain-work - if it would > be then you would be right that concentration is in the brain - but > Heart-work - so to say. > Perhaps someone else can explain it better. > > in HIM > Gabriele > > > > > > > > Does this statement ascribed to Bhagavan from the Sadhu Natanananda > > post conflict with that which is presented in the SS Cohen post? > > > > > Bhagavan: It is not an effortless state. All mundane activities > which > > are ordinarily called effort are performed with the aid of a > portion > > of the mind and with frequent breaks. But the act of communion with > > the Self, or remaining still inwardly, is intense activity which is > > performed with the entire mind and without break > > > > Alton: > > Is not the intense activity, effort with the mind? Can the mind > work > > without the brain? > > > > TIA, > > Aloha, > > SADHU SLATER > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > > > If concentration is made with the brain, > > > sensations of heat and even headache ensue. > > > Concentration has to be made in the heart, > > > which is cool and refreshing. > > > Relax and your meditation will be easy. > > > Keep your mind steady by gently warding off > > > all intruding thoughts, but without strain - > > > soon you will succeed. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > S.S. Cohen: Guru Ramana > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 I'm not sure if this is anything like an answer, Alton, but maybe some of my experiences as a beginner might provide some perspective on this. And if anybody recognizes some of these bumblings around, and has some tips I could use, I'd be really grateful. When I have done what I think of as concentrating with my brain, I experience a contracted concentration on the interior space which seems to be in my head. Thinking about the ego consciousness located there, I draw myself up into my head , and the energy flow in my body, particularly up my spine is directed into this head space and focussed there, resulting in a rapid buildup of pressure and heat because I'm blocking anything going anywhere else. Really concentrating on my head-located ego consciousness produces intense pressure, mild headache, often a ringing in my ears, and at times even cracking and popping sounds in my skull joints. My thoughts are very focussed, but not quieted. It's more like a stunning than an awakening. The tension that accompanies this gets transmitted to my whole body, and I feel hot all over. Concentrating with my heart, I experience an expanded attention to a space which seems to include my entire body. This space is centered in the region of my heart, and I attend to it with my heart. I'm not talking about the meat pump in my chest. It's more like an energy center, and because the interior space includes my physical body, the energy center matches the outward space's organ location. My head mind is there, but as a witness to this. I have a sense of extension outward and I approach a resting, waiting state, attending the heart in anticipation of an opening. I think of it as being like a still hunter, learning to relax into motionless attentiveness. When I do that, my mind tends to become quieter, but more alert. In the early stages, because I tend to continue to look out through my eyeballs, I have a sense of being an "I" at some distance from and above the heart. As I continue to direct attention to the heart, there is a sense of moving back, and the world takes on more of the quality of a movie one is watching. A little more, and I have the sense of being something located at the heart, but outside it, and the awareness of eye sight, ear sound, and the whole set of body awarenesses are distractions. At this point, I find it really hard to maintain attention. I feel like I'm balanced on a rail, and to fall to either side means either to become caught up in some thought process and carried back outward into the world of objects or to become caught up in a dream process and to be carried downward into sleep. When I'm on, I'm on; when I'm not, I eventually wake up in the chair with a crick in my neck. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Dear Don, May I suggest that you look in the "files" sections of this newsgroup. I have posted a document, named something link "Who am I with practice notes from a seeker." This takes you from the most basic teaching of Ramana (What is the source of your happiness) to the deepest. In just a few pages. It might provide you with some practice insights and approaches. Keep asking questions of this group, too. There are contributors who might have something to offer. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "Don and Joanne" <jodon@n...> wrote: > I'm not sure if this is anything like an answer, Alton, but maybe some of my > experiences as a beginner might provide some perspective on this. And if > anybody recognizes some of these bumblings around, and has some tips I > could use, I'd be really grateful. > > When I have done what I think of as concentrating with my brain, I > experience a contracted concentration on the interior space which seems to > be in my head. Thinking about the ego consciousness located there, I draw > myself up into my head , and the energy flow in my body, particularly up my > spine is directed into this head space and focussed there, resulting in a > rapid buildup of pressure and heat because I'm blocking anything going > anywhere else. Really concentrating on my head-located ego consciousness > produces intense pressure, mild headache, often a ringing in my ears, and > at times even cracking and popping sounds in my skull joints. My thoughts > are very focussed, but not quieted. It's more like a stunning than an > awakening. The tension that accompanies this gets transmitted to my whole > body, and I feel hot all over. > > Concentrating with my heart, I experience an expanded attention to a space > which seems to include my entire body. This space is centered in the region > of my heart, and I attend to it with my heart. I'm not talking about the > meat pump in my chest. It's more like an energy center, and because the > interior space includes my physical body, the energy center matches the > outward space's organ location. My head mind is there, but as a witness to > this. I have a sense of extension outward and I approach a resting, > waiting state, attending the heart in anticipation of an opening. I think of > it as being like a still hunter, learning to relax into motionless > attentiveness. When I do that, my mind tends to become quieter, but more > alert. > > In the early stages, because I tend to continue to look out through my > eyeballs, I have a sense of being an "I" at some distance from and above the > heart. As I continue to direct attention to the heart, there is a sense of > moving back, and the world takes on more of the quality of a movie one is > watching. A little more, and I have the sense of being something located at > the heart, but outside it, and the awareness of eye sight, ear sound, and > the whole set of body awarenesses are distractions. At this point, I find it > really hard to maintain attention. I feel like I'm balanced on a rail, and > to fall to either side means either to become caught up in some thought > process and carried back outward into the world of objects or to become > caught up in a dream process and to be carried downward into sleep. > > When I'm on, I'm on; when I'm not, I eventually wake up in the chair with a > crick in my neck. > > Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Dear fellow Enquirers , eveyone will find a different way of opening the Heart for Enquiry .Ramana suggested - find that way which is easiest for you .All we can do is share our approaches and see what appeals .From my own experienc I know Self Enquiry is not cerebral .For probing , diving , plunging into the heart , I first collect attention and focus - like a good artist would do before drawing an object or concentrate on an object like the blue wick of a lit candle .Then this focus which seems to come for me from the chakra between the brows {pineal gland] moves down to the right side of the chest like a laser beam of attention .This is picked up by the pulsation or energy centre there and taken deeper into the heart where there is no centre .This energy {heart energy } then tries to reach the source of the' I - Thought Complex 'and with a questioning intention or attentiveness probe single pointedly as deep as it can .No answer or result is expected . The effort is the answer as this gradually undermines the Spurious I .My experience that this , with perseverence opens up understanding at a different level to the conceptual mind .This is my approach , continually modified by the Sat Guru in My heart .It may appeal to some - but one must find one's own way .Sometimes I combine this with breath retention. Guidance is given in Ramana's Essays , Self Enquiry , Who Am I and Talks . etc. etc. The earnest Enquirer can never fail eventually - Gurus Grace is always there, Love in Him Alan . --- P.S.Please Richard what is theaddress of the site you mention - <HR> <html><body> <tt> Dear Don,<BR> <BR> May I suggest that you look in the "files" sections of this <BR> newsgroup. I have posted a document, named something link "Who am I <BR> with practice notes from a seeker."<BR> <BR> This takes you from the most basic teaching of Ramana (What is the <BR> source of your happiness) to the deepest. In just a few pages. <BR> <BR> It might provide you with some practice insights and approaches. <BR> <BR> Keep asking questions of this group, too. There are contributors who <BR> might have something to offer.<BR> <BR> We are Not two,<BR> Richard<BR> <BR> RamanaMaharshi, "Don and Joanne" <jodon@n...> wrote:<BR> > I'm not sure if this is anything like an answer, Alton, but maybe <BR> some of my<BR> > experiences as a beginner might provide some perspective on this. <BR> And if<BR> > anybody recognizes some of these bumblings around, and has some <BR> tips I<BR> > could use, I'd be really grateful.<BR> > <BR> > When I have done what I think of as concentrating with my brain, I<BR> > experience a contracted concentration on the interior space which <BR> seems to<BR> > be in my head. Thinking about the ego consciousness located there, <BR> I draw<BR> > myself up into my head , and the energy flow in my body, <BR> particularly up my<BR> > spine is directed into this head space and focussed there, <BR> resulting in a<BR> > rapid buildup of pressure and heat because I'm blocking anything <BR> going<BR> > anywhere else. Really concentrating on my head-located ego <BR> consciousness<BR> > produces intense pressure, mild headache, often a ringing in my <BR> ears, and<BR> > at times even cracking and popping sounds in my skull joints. My <BR> thoughts<BR> > are very focussed, but not quieted. It's more like a stunning than <BR> an<BR> > awakening. The tension that accompanies this gets transmitted to <BR> my whole<BR> > body, and I feel hot all over.<BR> > <BR> > Concentrating with my heart, I experience an expanded attention to <BR> a space<BR> > which seems to include my entire body. This space is centered in <BR> the region<BR> > of my heart, and I attend to it with my heart. I'm not talking <BR> about the<BR> > meat pump in my chest. It's more like an energy center, and because <BR> the<BR> > interior space includes my physical body, the energy center matches <BR> the<BR> > outward space's organ location. My head mind is there, but as a <BR> witness to<BR> > this. I have a sense of extension outward and I approach a <BR> resting,<BR> > waiting state, attending the heart in anticipation of an opening. I <BR> think of<BR> > it as being like a still hunter, learning to relax into motionless<BR> > attentiveness. When I do that, my mind tends to become quieter, but <BR> more<BR> > alert.<BR> > <BR> > In the early stages, because I tend to continue to look out through <BR> my<BR> > eyeballs, I have a sense of being an "I" at some distance from and <BR> above the<BR> > heart. As I continue to direct attention to the heart, there is a <BR> sense of<BR> > moving back, and the world takes on more of the quality of a movie <BR> one is<BR> > watching. A little more, and I have the sense of being something <BR> located at<BR> > the heart, but outside it, and the awareness of eye sight, ear <BR> sound, and<BR> > the whole set of body awarenesses are distractions. At this point, <BR> I find it<BR> > really hard to maintain attention. I feel like I'm balanced on a <BR> rail, and<BR> > to fall to either side means either to become caught up in some <BR> thought<BR> > process and carried back outward into the world of objects or to <BR> become<BR> > caught up in a dream process and to be carried downward into sleep.<BR> > <BR> > When I'm on, I'm on; when I'm not, I eventually wake up in the <BR> chair with a<BR> > crick in my neck.<BR> > <BR> > Don<BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> <td align=center width=470><TABLE WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br> <TR> <TD> <a href="http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupweb/S=1705060\ 955:HM/A=810373/R=0/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs" target=_top><IMG SRC="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2b_1_01.jpg" WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD> <TD> <a href="http://rd./M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupweb/S=1705060\ 955:HM/A=810373/R=1/*http://geocities./ps/info?.refer=blrecs" target=_top><IMG SRC="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_geocities/lrec2d_2_02.gif" WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD> </TR></a> </TABLE></td> </tr> <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 src="http://us.adserver./l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2273195/D=egroupmai\ l/S=:HM/A=810373/rand=709051650"></td></tr> </table> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <br> <tt> <BR> Post message: RamanaMaharshi <BR> Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- <BR> Un: RamanaMaharshi- <BR> List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner <BR> <BR> Shortcut URL to this page:<BR> <a href="/community/RamanaMaharshi"> Terms of Service</a>.</tt> </br> </body></html> Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.''>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my. 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