Guest guest Posted November 8, 2002 Report Share Posted November 8, 2002 Dear Richard or anyone: Let me see if I understand Vichara. When one puts their attention on their attention that is Vichara? Or another way of saying it is when one puts their attenion on the sense of conscious presence that is vichara. If not then I guess I will never understand it. If one had to ask the question "Who am I' for it to be vichara then I guess I am not practicing vichara. Thanks in advance or retreat if you are in one for your replies. Love, Bewusstsein or awareness. RamanaMaharshi, "Richard Clarke" <rclarke@s...> wrote: > Deal Alton, > > One point: > > I would say that since Ramana mainly instructed seekers in inquiry > that his main form was Self-inquiry (vichara), not > surrender/devotion. > > Example from "Talks," # 27 4 Feb 1937 > > D.: How are they to be practiced? > M.: ... Hence inquiry (vichara) is the first and foremost step to be > taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a contempt > for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc. The 'I'-thought becomes > clearer for inspection. The source of 'I' is the Heart--the final > goal. If, however, the asparant is not tempermentally suited to > Vichara Marffa, he must develop bhakti (devotion) to an ideal--may be > God, Guru, humanity in general, ethical laws, or even to the idea of > beauty. ... > > We are Not two, > Richard > > RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > Dear Gary: > > I have to admit that I am not too bright, so I really dont quite > > understand what you have presented below. I have read Nisargadatta > > expensively and dont really see the difference between the two > except > > Sri Ramana seems to be more into God and devotion and Nisardagatta > > seems to give very specific specific instuctions for the spiritual > > quest of the absolute. Also Nisargadatta turned down the > possibility > > of an ashram. Is that what you mean? > > I met Balsekar and he said that Nisargadatta did not do initiations > > and then I read a first hand account that he did. Balsekar refused > my > > request for inititiation. > > I am a member or your group but I dont seem to even handle the > other > > few groups I belong to. If you could repost anything interesting > here > > that would be great. TIA > > Love, > > Bewusstsein means awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Dear Alton, what you say here is a very good approach and very much vichara. When attention is on attention only the subject and object subsideand with that the ego-I - and the One will reveal itself. More is not needed. In Sri Ramana Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > Dear Richard or anyone: > Let me see if I understand Vichara. > When one puts their attention on their attention that is Vichara? > Or another way of saying it is when one puts their attenion on the > sense of conscious presence that is vichara. > If not then I guess I will never understand it. If one had to ask the > question "Who am I' for it to be vichara then I guess I am not > practicing vichara. > Thanks in advance or retreat if you are in one for your replies. > Love, > Bewusstsein or awareness. > > RamanaMaharshi, "Richard Clarke" <rclarke@s...> wrote: > > Deal Alton, > > > > One point: > > > > I would say that since Ramana mainly instructed seekers in inquiry > > that his main form was Self-inquiry (vichara), not > > surrender/devotion. > > > > Example from "Talks," # 27 4 Feb 1937 > > > > D.: How are they to be practiced? > > M.: ... Hence inquiry (vichara) is the first and foremost step to > be > > taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a > contempt > > for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc. The 'I'-thought becomes > > clearer for inspection. The source of 'I' is the Heart--the final > > goal. If, however, the asparant is not tempermentally suited to > > Vichara Marffa, he must develop bhakti (devotion) to an ideal-- may > be > > God, Guru, humanity in general, ethical laws, or even to the idea > of > > beauty. ... > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > > Dear Gary: > > > I have to admit that I am not too bright, so I really dont quite > > > understand what you have presented below. I have read > Nisargadatta > > > expensively and dont really see the difference between the two > > except > > > Sri Ramana seems to be more into God and devotion and > Nisardagatta > > > seems to give very specific specific instuctions for the > spiritual > > > quest of the absolute. Also Nisargadatta turned down the > > possibility > > > of an ashram. Is that what you mean? > > > I met Balsekar and he said that Nisargadatta did not do > initiations > > > and then I read a first hand account that he did. Balsekar > refused > > my > > > request for inititiation. > > > I am a member or your group but I dont seem to even handle the > > other > > > few groups I belong to. If you could repost anything interesting > > here > > > that would be great. TIA > > > Love, > > > Bewusstsein means awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Dear Alton, Certainly putting your attention on the attention itself leads "within" and is very much in the right direction. This has long been a known practice. The Taoists, even before the Buddhists came to China, practiced something they called "Turning the light around," which is attention on attention. There is one part of the questions that I am not sure about, though. Nome has said again and again that Self-realization is a matter of Knowledge, knowledge of WHO YOU ARE. And that this largely consists of removing the mis-identifications that you have about who you are. As the mis-identifications are removed, the ego-'I' gets "smaller," the sense of inner peace gets more profound. This I can confirm from my own practice. Past this point (where inquiry blooms into Self- realization) I can only talk from "indirect knowledge," that which can be taught and understood by this mind, rather than "direct knowledge" which comes from ones own non-objective experience of Reality or Being. Since I do not speak hear from the direct Knowledge, I will not say more. I have seen in my own inquiry practice, that taking this kind of approach (awareness of awareness) "opens the door." I practiced something like this for many years, before I started the Self- inquiry. What I practiced could also probably be characterized as "mindfulness" also, noticing the noticing. This practice of awareness of awareness brought me more inner peace than was otherwise available at the time. I have now found that continuing the inquiry to look for where the sense of 'I' arises --or who knows all that is known -- does more to remove the mis- identifications, and this seems to be key. AS I continue my own practice, I still notice that mostly my "stand" is as this "embodied Richard." When I ask Nome about this, he tells me that I need to be thorough in removing these mis-identifications. And as I then try to put his teaching into action, do find this further inquiry and discrimination of Who I Am, takes me deeper. Gabriele: by none of this do I mean to contradict your statement. I feel that I understand where you are coming from, and that attention on the "subject" rather than the "object" is very much, as I said above, in the right direction. For me, just the attention on the "subject" only took me so far. The "Who am I?" seems to be a great aide in removing layers of ego, of mid-identification. Finally, we are told, there is no object, no subject. That is where "Who am I?" leads. This is the path that I tread. For this path I am immensely grateful to Ramana, and to Nome. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > Dear Alton, > what you say here is a very good approach and very much vichara. When > attention is on attention only the subject and object subsideand with > that the ego-I - and the One will reveal itself. More is not needed. > > In Sri Ramana > Gabriele > > RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > > > Dear Richard or anyone: > > Let me see if I understand Vichara. > > When one puts their attention on their attention that is Vichara? > > Or another way of saying it is when one puts their attenion on the > > sense of conscious presence that is vichara. > > If not then I guess I will never understand it. If one had to ask > the > > question "Who am I' for it to be vichara then I guess I am not > > practicing vichara. > > Thanks in advance or retreat if you are in one for your replies. > > Love, > > Bewusstsein or awareness. > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "Richard Clarke" <rclarke@s...> wrote: > > > Deal Alton, > > > > > > One point: > > > > > > I would say that since Ramana mainly instructed seekers in > inquiry > > > that his main form was Self-inquiry (vichara), not > > > surrender/devotion. > > > > > > Example from "Talks," # 27 4 Feb 1937 > > > > > > D.: How are they to be practiced? > > > M.: ... Hence inquiry (vichara) is the first and foremost step to > > be > > > taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a > > contempt > > > for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc. The 'I'-thought becomes > > > clearer for inspection. The source of 'I' is the Heart--the final > > > goal. If, however, the asparant is not tempermentally suited to > > > Vichara Marffa, he must develop bhakti (devotion) to an ideal-- > may > > be > > > God, Guru, humanity in general, ethical laws, or even to the idea > > of > > > beauty. ... > > > > > > We are Not two, > > > Richard > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > > > Dear Gary: > > > > I have to admit that I am not too bright, so I really dont > quite > > > > understand what you have presented below. I have read > > Nisargadatta > > > > expensively and dont really see the difference between the two > > > except > > > > Sri Ramana seems to be more into God and devotion and > > Nisardagatta > > > > seems to give very specific specific instuctions for the > > spiritual > > > > quest of the absolute. Also Nisargadatta turned down the > > > possibility > > > > of an ashram. Is that what you mean? > > > > I met Balsekar and he said that Nisargadatta did not do > > initiations > > > > and then I read a first hand account that he did. Balsekar > > refused > > > my > > > > request for inititiation. > > > > I am a member or your group but I dont seem to even handle the > > > other > > > > few groups I belong to. If you could repost anything > interesting > > > here > > > > that would be great. TIA > > > > Love, > > > > Bewusstsein means awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, rather than some "Nome" has suggested this attention on attention by the notion of listening to the inner ear, focusing the right ear on the left, and the left on the right. It creates a sthana. a place for meditation, like the herdayam on the right side. These days it is helped by stereophones. Two inches above the top of the head is also a great sthana. So is the big toe. What is important is to move your mind (self) to a new location. and know. A tap to www.theHungerSite.com will give somebody a cup of rice. ShalauM! _______________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 vicAra is just turning the mind within, and the best way is to ask "Who am I?". It's a simple (joke) process. Better is to surrender to some higher power. Look for nothing, and it will come to you. A tap to www.theHungerSite.com will give somebody a cup of rice. ShalauM! _______________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 You begin by writing "attenion" rather than "attention". Pay some attention to where you are. See then what is what you call you. This is hard work, fellow. Plan on decades. Easier is just to give up. Be the salt doll that falls into the ocean. A tap to www.theHungerSite.com will give somebody a cup of rice. ShalauM! _______________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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