Nisarhadatta Maharaj, contrasted with Andrew Cohen

November 12, 2002

---

--- Nisargadatta Maharaj (Q and M);, followed by Andrew Cohen:

> ---

> Q: Have you no problems?

>

> M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to exist

> with a name and form is painful, yet I love it.

>

> Q: But you love everything!

>

> M: In existence everything is contained. My very nature is to love;

> even the painful is lovable.

>

> Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain in the

unlimited?

>

> M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown, that

> brings

> me into existence. It is in the nature of being to see adventure

> in becoming, as it is in the very nature of becoming to seek

> peace in being. This alternation of being and becoming is

> inevitable:

>

> but my home is beyond

>

> k

>

Now for Andrew Cohen: Are there differences? If so, what do YOU feel

they are? Thanks, Matrixmonitor

-

"Where we're headed, I don't know. I hope we survive our own death

wish, our

own selfishness, because there's so much that we're capable of. We

have such

profound and miraculous potential and it's taken fifteen billion

years for us

to get to this point. It would be a cosmically tragic waste for us to

destroy

ourselves so that the evolutionary process wouldn't be able to

continue. We

can't even imagine what's possible, but what becomes obvious is that

our duty

as awakened beings is to give everything to that process. At least

from my

point of view, we could say that we hadn't reached a liberated state

until

we've come to that point in our own evolution when we are truly

giving all of

ourselves to that process, because that's what we're here for. And in

that

doing and that giving we find our freedom, and we are one with the

life process

itself, and everything begins to line up. Suddenly there's this

extraordinary

discovery that being exactly who one is, even as a personal entity

with a

personal history, begins to make perfect sense in the cosmic stream

of things,

and then we're free to participate, which is what we're all here for."

- Andrew Cohen

-

--- End forwarded message ---

November 12, 2002

Dear Gary , I do not like to embark on controversy re. other teachers .But from

my point of view

Andrew is outside the parameters in' A Ramana Maharshi Context' whereas

Nisagadatta is not

..Andrew after leaving Papaji - embarked on his own semi- dualistic path .In

Advaita according to

~Ramana we do not work on the world directly .We benefit the world indirectly

though our own Self

Realisation as Ramana has .Others may have another oppinion .Papaji is reported

to have said about

Andrew after he gave him permission to teach and then went off on his own

'thing'- "the messenger

wants to be the King' .The extract you have quoted is Humanism not Advaita

Vedanta according to

Ramana Maharshi .Regards Alan

--- matrixmonitor <matrixmonitor wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

---

--- Nisargadatta Maharaj (Q and M);, followed by Andrew Cohen:

> ---

> Q: Have you no problems?

>

> M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to exist

> with a name and form is painful, yet I love it.

>

> Q: But you love everything!

>

> M: In existence everything is contained. My very nature is to love;

> even the painful is lovable.

>

> Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain in the

unlimited?

>

> M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown, that

> brings

> me into existence. It is in the nature of being to see adventure

> in becoming, as it is in the very nature of becoming to seek

> peace in being. This alternation of being and becoming is

> inevitable:

>

> but my home is beyond

>

> k

>

Now for Andrew Cohen: Are there differences? If so, what do YOU feel

they are? Thanks, Matrixmonitor

-

"Where we're headed, I don't know. I hope we survive our own death

wish, our

own selfishness, because there's so much that we're capable of. We

have such

profound and miraculous potential and it's taken fifteen billion

years for us

to get to this point. It would be a cosmically tragic waste for us to

destroy

ourselves so that the evolutionary process wouldn't be able to

continue. We

can't even imagine what's possible, but what becomes obvious is that

our duty

as awakened beings is to give everything to that process. At least

from my

point of view, we could say that we hadn't reached a liberated state

until

we've come to that point in our own evolution when we are truly

giving all of

ourselves to that process, because that's what we're here for. And in

that

doing and that giving we find our freedom, and we are one with the

life process

itself, and everything begins to line up. Suddenly there's this

extraordinary

discovery that being exactly who one is, even as a personal entity

with a

personal history, begins to make perfect sense in the cosmic stream

of things,

and then we're free to participate, which is what we're all here for."

- Andrew Cohen

-

--- End forwarded message ---

</tt>

<tt>

Post message: RamanaMaharshi

Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-

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List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner

Shortcut URL to this page:

<a

href="/community/RamanaMaharshi"> Terms of Service</a>.</tt>

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November 12, 2002

--Cohen's worldview is "evolutionary consciousness" life (a new

eternal life perhaps even relatively speaking) begins at

Enlightenment. Ramesh Balsekar on the other hand, has stated that

relative life terminates at the physical death of the body, and for

that reason, the "time" remaining from one's Enlightenment to

physical death should be devoted to the accumulation of money and

physical comforts. (essential "Ramesh" philosophy which can't be

refuted). In a nutshell: Cohen, beginning of a new life!. Balsekar:

end of existence after physical death so you might as well devote

your energies to getting rich! (interesting viewpoint!). ...Gary.

In RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote:

> Dear Gary , I do not like to embark on controversy re. other

teachers .But from my point of view

> Andrew is outside the parameters in' A Ramana Maharshi Context'

whereas Nisagadatta is not

> .Andrew after leaving Papaji - embarked on his own semi- dualistic

path .In Advaita according to

> ~Ramana we do not work on the world directly .We benefit the world

indirectly though our own Self

> Realisation as Ramana has .Others may have another oppinion .Papaji

is reported to have said about

> Andrew after he gave him permission to teach and then went off on

his own 'thing'- "the messenger

> wants to be the King' .The extract you have quoted is Humanism not

Advaita Vedanta according to

> Ramana Maharshi .Regards Alan

>

> --- matrixmonitor <matrixmonitor> wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> ---

> --- Nisargadatta Maharaj (Q and M);, followed by Andrew Cohen:

> > ---

> > Q: Have you no problems?

> >

> > M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to exist

> > with a name and form is painful, yet I love it.

> >

> > Q: But you love everything!

> >

> > M: In existence everything is contained. My very nature is to

love;

> > even the painful is lovable.

> >

> > Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain in the

> unlimited?

> >

> > M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown,

that

> > brings

> > me into existence. It is in the nature of being to see

adventure

> > in becoming, as it is in the very nature of becoming to

seek

> > peace in being. This alternation of being and becoming is

> > inevitable:

> >

> > but my home is beyond

> >

> > k

> >

> Now for Andrew Cohen: Are there differences? If so, what do YOU

feel

> they are? Thanks, Matrixmonitor

>

> -

>

> "Where we're headed, I don't know. I hope we survive our own

death

> wish, our

> own selfishness, because there's so much that we're capable of. We

> have such

> profound and miraculous potential and it's taken fifteen billion

> years for us

> to get to this point. It would be a cosmically tragic waste for us

to

> destroy

> ourselves so that the evolutionary process wouldn't be able to

> continue. We

> can't even imagine what's possible, but what becomes obvious is

that

> our duty

> as awakened beings is to give everything to that process. At least

> from my

> point of view, we could say that we hadn't reached a liberated

state

> until

> we've come to that point in our own evolution when we are truly

> giving all of

> ourselves to that process, because that's what we're here for. And

in

> that

> doing and that giving we find our freedom, and we are one with the

> life process

> itself, and everything begins to line up. Suddenly there's this

> extraordinary

> discovery that being exactly who one is, even as a personal entity

> with a

> personal history, begins to make perfect sense in the cosmic stream

> of things,

> and then we're free to participate, which is what we're all here

for."

>

> - Andrew Cohen

>

> -

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> </tt>

>

>

> <tt>

>

> Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o...

> Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-

@o...

> Un: RamanaMaharshi-@o...

> List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner@o...

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> <a

>

href="/community/RamanaMaharshi"> > Terms of Service</a>.</tt>

>

>

> </body></html>

>

> Everything you'll ever need on one web page

> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

> http://uk.my.''>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.

November 12, 2002

Dear Gary , you seem to misunderstand Ramesh .Which written books of his have

you read ? .At Death

his point of view ,as I understand it , is that there is a transmigration ,

consciousness returns

to the Source {Brahman ,God , whatever term you resonate with most }for Source

or Absolute

Consciousness to do with it what 'That" wishes .Afterall we are only instruments

of Consciousness

and have to accept God's Will .He does not think the Egotistic entity goes on

after death as it

is brain centered and decomposes with the body , but some memory of previousl

life experience may

transmigrate to another subtle body as Consciousness wishes .Ramana also said

that Isvara ordains

each `Jiva , drawing on different qualities for each new life for its spiritual

development

..Ramesh does not think you accumulate money etc.His view is that after surrender

to God's Will '

enjoy your life ',{if it is God's Will] awaiting Grace to end the pernicious

conceptual sense of

doership or ego .After Enlightenment who knows what God Wills for us to do ?A

new Life would begin

..

Do we have to discuss other teachers , meritorious as Ramesh may be rather than

Ramana Maharshi

which is what we are here for .regards Alan

--- matrixmonitor <matrixmonitor wrote:

<HR>

<tt>

--Cohen's worldview is "evolutionary consciousness" life (a new

eternal life perhaps even relatively speaking) begins at

Enlightenment. Ramesh Balsekar on the other hand, has stated that

relative life terminates at the physical death of the body, and for

that reason, the "time" remaining from one's Enlightenment to

physical death should be devoted to the accumulation of money and

physical comforts. (essential "Ramesh" philosophy which can't be

refuted). In a nutshell: Cohen, beginning of a new life!. Balsekar:

end of existence after physical death so you might as well devote

your energies to getting rich! (interesting viewpoint!).

....Gary.

In RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs>

wrote:

> Dear Gary , I do not like to embark on controversy re. other

teachers .But from my point of view

> Andrew is outside the parameters in' A Ramana Maharshi Context'

whereas Nisagadatta is not

> .Andrew after leaving Papaji - embarked on his own semi- dualistic

path .In Advaita according to

> ~Ramana we do not work on the world directly .We benefit the world

indirectly though our own Self

> Realisation as Ramana has .Others may have another oppinion .Papaji

is reported to have said about

> Andrew after he gave him permission to teach and then went off on

his own 'thing'- "the messenger

> wants to be the King' .The extract you have quoted is Humanism not

Advaita Vedanta according to

> Ramana Maharshi .Regards Alan

>

> --- matrixmonitor <matrixmonitor> wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

> <tt>

> ---

> --- Nisargadatta Maharaj (Q and M);, followed by Andrew

Cohen:

> > ---

> > Q: Have you no problems?

> >

> > M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to

exist

> > with a name and form is painful, yet I love it.

> >

> > Q: But you love everything!

> >

> > M: In existence everything is contained. My very nature is to

love;

> > even the painful is lovable.

> >

> > Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain in the

> unlimited?

> >

> > M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the unknown,

that

> > brings

> > me into existence. It is in the nature of being to see

adventure

> > in becoming, as it is in the very nature of becoming to

seek

> > peace in being. This alternation of being and becoming

is

> > inevitable:

> >

> > but my home is beyond

> >

> > k

> >

> Now for Andrew Cohen: Are there differences? If so, what do YOU

feel

> they are?  Thanks, Matrixmonitor

>

> -

>

> "Where we're headed, I don't know. I hope we survive our own

death

> wish, our

> own selfishness, because there's so much that we're capable of. We

> have such

> profound and miraculous potential and it's taken fifteen billion

> years for us

> to get to this point. It would be a cosmically tragic waste for us

to

> destroy

> ourselves so that the evolutionary process wouldn't be able to

> continue. We

> can't even imagine what's possible, but what becomes obvious is

that

> our duty

> as awakened beings is to give everything to that process. At least

> from my

> point of view, we could say that we hadn't reached a liberated

state

> until

> we've come to that point in our own evolution when we are truly

> giving all of

> ourselves to that process, because that's what we're here for. And

in

> that

> doing and that giving we find our freedom, and we are one with the

> life process

> itself, and everything begins to line up. Suddenly there's this

> extraordinary

> discovery that being exactly who one is, even as a personal entity

> with a

> personal history, begins to make perfect sense in the cosmic stream

> of things,

> and then we're free to participate, which is what we're all here

for."

>

> - Andrew Cohen

>

> -

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> </tt>

>

>

> <tt>

>

>   Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o...

>   Subscribe:    RamanaMaharshi-

@o...

>   Un: 

RamanaMaharshi-@o...

>   List owner:  

RamanaMaharshi-owner@o...

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

>   <a

>

href="<a

href="/community/RamanaMaharshi"> uot;>

> Terms of Service</a>.</tt>

>

>

> </body></html>

>

> Everything you'll ever need on one web page

> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

> <a href="http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.</a>

</tt>

<tt>

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