Guest guest Posted November 17, 2002 Report Share Posted November 17, 2002 Dear Alton, Just a bit more before I return to the retreat. (I am presently in the midst of a 5-day "Truth Revealed" retreat). You may note that in my answer to you, I talk about 'discrimination' rather than 'negation'. This is after I have better learned what is going on, at a higher level, in this practice. It is more that a mere rejection of some objective reality, it is also a confirmation of what is Real. So when I 'negate' some physical tendency (say, body identification), the key part of this is see what is real -- the Consciousness that I am, for example -- and not just merely a rejection of some objective thing, idea or attribute. This is important in a practice of inquiry. Inquiry is called a "knowledge practice." The basic idea is that what brings Liberation is not any action, but rather Knowledge, Knowledge (at the same deep level that you know that you exist) of your own identity. When you stand with your identity as a body, you live and die, hurt and have pleasure, live in this time and this place, etc. As your stand moves, by Self-Knowledge, to the constant, unchanging, timeless, unbounded Self, then the limitations of the stand as body fall away. So as long as you maintain the thought that you are a body, then discrimination is called for. Is this the Truth, that you are a body? How does this contrast with your own experience of changeless exsitencce (as one example of discrimination)? As long as onhe holds to the body idea as their identity, the inquiry wiull only go so far. How can one see themselves as the formless, unlimited Self, while they hold to the identity as body, which definately has a form and is limited (in time, speace and by birth and death)? Time so leave for the retreat. Time for Alton to look at this Existence and see its unchanging nature, and to see "Who am I?" We are Not two, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 I like this Richard. I see that you too have come into laser-like focus of this path, which Patanjali says of discrimination it is the sine quo non of realization, self realization. I think between this post and what Alton wrote it gives me insight into what I have been experiencing, or rather not experiencing lately. It is a rejection of that which is not real. And the body and its identification is not real and that is what I have been shaken from to my spiritual roots and it is like nothing I have ever not experienced before, because it is NOT an experience it is a loosing, a shaking and nothing that words can describe. But it is also in a sense the loss of mind because the natural brain/mind has no role there. I see that now, or rather did not see it.... Netemara ****************** RamanaMaharshi, "Richard Clarke" <r_clarke@i...> wrote: > Dear Alton, > > Just a bit more before I return to the retreat. (I am presently in > the midst of a 5-day "Truth Revealed" retreat). > > You may note that in my answer to you, I talk about 'discrimination' > rather than 'negation'. This is after I have better learned what is > going on, at a higher level, in this practice. It is more that a > mere rejection of some objective reality, it is also a confirmation > of what is Real. So when I 'negate' some physical tendency (say, > body identification), the key part of this is see what is real -- the > Consciousness that I am, for example -- and not just merely a > rejection of some objective thing, idea or attribute. > > This is important in a practice of inquiry. Inquiry is called > a "knowledge practice." The basic idea is that what brings Liberation > is not any action, but rather Knowledge, Knowledge (at the same deep > level that you know that you exist) of your own identity. When you > stand with your identity as a body, you live and die, hurt and have > pleasure, live in this time and this place, etc. As your stand > moves, by Self-Knowledge, to the constant, unchanging, timeless, > unbounded Self, then the limitations of the stand as body fall away. > > So as long as you maintain the thought that you are a body, then > discrimination is called for. Is this the Truth, that you are a body? > How does this contrast with your own experience of changeless > exsitencce (as one example of discrimination)? As long as onhe holds > to the body idea as their identity, the inquiry wiull only go so far. > How can one see themselves as the formless, unlimited Self, while > they hold to the identity as body, which definately has a form and is > limited (in time, speace and by birth and death)? > > Time so leave for the retreat. Time for Alton to look at this > Existence and see its unchanging nature, and to see "Who am I?" > > We are Not two, > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 Dear Netemara, My teacher, None, is most clear on this point: Realization is a matter of Self-Knowledge, knowledge of Who You Are. Self-Knowledge comes through discrimination, coupled with Self- inquiry. That you feel some change in your body (mis) identification is very good. Ramana said repeatedly that chief amoung the mis- identifications is the "I am the body" notion. We spent one day of the 5-day retreat on this, first deeply looking at Existence, then to various aspects of body mid-identification, discriminating from the basis of what we see at Real about Existence. Once this notion is resolved, it all gets much more 'open'. that sounds like what you have expereinced. It is most difficulat to 'see' space-like, formless Being when 'confined' by the body mis- identification. Once this is gone, your practice will be much deeper. Now, Net, you may want to go through the other of the 5 sheaths, discriminating as you go. Are you the senses? Are you the life energy? Are you the mind? Are you the empty mind? Glad to hear of your "loosing." When any part of the ego- identification drops away, there is an increase in 'space' in oines practice. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "heloise155" <heloise155> wrote: > I like this Richard. I see that you too have come into laser-like > focus of this path, which Patanjali says of discrimination it is the > sine quo non of realization, self realization. I think between this > post and what Alton wrote it gives me insight into what I have been > experiencing, or rather not experiencing lately. It is a rejection of > that which is not real. And the body and its identification is not > real and that is what I have been shaken from to my spiritual roots > and it is like nothing I have ever not experienced before, because it > is NOT an experience it is a loosing, a shaking and nothing that > words can describe. > > But it is also in a sense the loss of mind because the natural > brain/mind has no role there. I see that now, or rather did not see > it.... > > Netemara > > ****************** > > RamanaMaharshi, "Richard Clarke" <r_clarke@i...> wrote: > > Dear Alton, > > > > Just a bit more before I return to the retreat. (I am presently in > > the midst of a 5-day "Truth Revealed" retreat). > > > > You may note that in my answer to you, I talk > about 'discrimination' > > rather than 'negation'. This is after I have better learned what is > > going on, at a higher level, in this practice. It is more that a > > mere rejection of some objective reality, it is also a confirmation > > of what is Real. So when I 'negate' some physical tendency (say, > > body identification), the key part of this is see what is real -- > the > > Consciousness that I am, for example -- and not just merely a > > rejection of some objective thing, idea or attribute. > > > > This is important in a practice of inquiry. Inquiry is called > > a "knowledge practice." The basic idea is that what brings > Liberation > > is not any action, but rather Knowledge, Knowledge (at the same > deep > > level that you know that you exist) of your own identity. When you > > stand with your identity as a body, you live and die, hurt and have > > pleasure, live in this time and this place, etc. As your stand > > moves, by Self-Knowledge, to the constant, unchanging, timeless, > > unbounded Self, then the limitations of the stand as body fall > away. > > > > So as long as you maintain the thought that you are a body, then > > discrimination is called for. Is this the Truth, that you are a > body? > > How does this contrast with your own experience of changeless > > exsitencce (as one example of discrimination)? As long as onhe > holds > > to the body idea as their identity, the inquiry wiull only go so > far. > > How can one see themselves as the formless, unlimited Self, while > > they hold to the identity as body, which definately has a form and > is > > limited (in time, speace and by birth and death)? > > > > Time so leave for the retreat. Time for Alton to look at this > > Existence and see its unchanging nature, and to see "Who am I?" > > > > We are Not two, > > Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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