Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dear Miles wrote:Looking for progress is failure. Seeing it is arrogance. It locks one into a linear view of Self and Universe. In atmavicara self-surrender is essential. If you continue to search for results/monitor progress there will never be an end. In self-surrender one accepts the workings of prarabdha without associating with the fruits (good or bad). Then the maturing 'practice' of atmavicara will Self-fulfill as Reality in an instant. Alton: When Ramana stated that "only a purified mind can do any practice", is not a purified mind on a progressive scale of a more purified and less purified? When Ramana talks about getting off the mental modifications to be able to do Vichara, is not being off the mental modifications,before it occurs on a gradient of more modifications and less modifications? If one accepts the working of prarabdha then we should blindly surrender to what ever in happening in our life and say it is the will of God? If we strive for anything is our life we then can characterize it as ego foolishness. Lets now become enslaved in surrender and take a hit of the opiate religions of the masses. This is not my cup of tea. I wont wait for Christ to come and raise us from the grave. Now aren't I a sinful seeker? Anything attempted in this phenomenal plane can be measured on a progressive scale. When UG's mindfulness became consummate, he blew away his discursive mind by starvation and became realized. There are at least two way to make progress in meditation. Mindfulness and exclusive focus or trance. Ramana had that trace capacity even before his death experience. You could hit him on the head and beat him while he was in that state and he would not budge. To attain that state IMO took many lifetimes of practice and it could have been measured on a progressive gradient scale. Maybe two lifetimes ago when you hit his on the head during his trance he would come out. With more practice he would not. Gosh when I become realized I will announce it on the Net like all the Net wonders, no way. Really, how many alive today have achieved the no "I thought state". Even Ramana had an Ego. Did not he say to some visitors who asked him where the Swami was, "the swami in not here". Was that Ramana's ego or just his imaginary Ego. While in samadhi Ramana had no ego and no 'I' thoughts. When not in samadhi he had an ego, like the rest of us. The ego is the interface to communicate in this world Now please don't think I am hostile to Ramana, because so far his is tops. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dear Alton, <I wont wait for Christ to come and raise us from the grave. This "rising from the grave" is always happening - for those who surrender. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dear Alton, I think that making the mind quieter, reducing the number of thoughts that pull us out, is a kind of progress. But I also think that thoughts are like ripples on a pond. They can't affect the pond. So from the pond's point of view, there's no progress. I see a man with an eggbeater churning the pond into a frenzy. His attention is on the foam, so he feels like he doesn't see the pond. He wants to stop cranking, but the effort to stop cranking is itself a kind of cranking. It's a catch-22. > Really, how many alive today have achieved the no "I > thought state". I bet it's not there all the time during the day, even for you. You just don't notice. The ripply state is much less continuous than it seems. They are all just thoughts. Just ripples. Why elevate them into something important? Just mental confetti. Aloha amigo, Rob - UNBOUND RAMANA GROUP Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:29 PM [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Celestial Music MILES Alton: When Ramana stated that "only a purified mind can do any practice", is not a purified mind on a progressive scale of a more purified and less purified? When Ramana talks about getting off the mental modifications to be able to do Vichara, is not being off the mental modifications,before it occurs on a gradient of more modifications and less modifications? use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dear Rob: When my post gets you to come out of your samadhi hybernation state I must be doing something right or maybe wrong from another point of view. Thanks much for you input, but is your consciousness in alighment with your statements? Love, Alton RamanaMaharshi, "Rob Sacks" <editor@r...> wrote: > Dear Alton, > > I think that making the mind quieter, reducing the number > of thoughts that pull us out, is a kind of progress. > > But I also think that thoughts are like ripples on a pond. > They can't affect the pond. So from the pond's point of > view, there's no progress. > > I see a man with an eggbeater churning the pond into a > frenzy. His attention is on the foam, so he feels like he > doesn't see the pond. He wants to stop cranking, but the > effort to stop cranking is itself a kind of cranking. It's a > catch-22. > > > Really, how many alive today have achieved the no "I > > thought state". > > I bet it's not there all the time during the day, even for you. > You just don't notice. The ripply state is much less > continuous than it seems. > > They are all just thoughts. Just ripples. Why elevate them > into something important? > > Just mental confetti. > > Aloha amigo, > > Rob > > - > UNBOUND > RAMANA GROUP > Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:29 PM > [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Celestial Music MILES > > Alton: > When Ramana stated that "only a purified mind can do any practice", is not a purified mind on a progressive scale of a more purified and less purified? > When Ramana talks about getting off the mental modifications to be able to do Vichara, is not being off the mental modifications,before it occurs on a gradient of more modifications and less modifications? > > use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dear Alton, > Thanks much for you input, but is your consciousness > in alighment with your statements? Oh yeah. It's confetti central around here 24 hours a day, and sometimes I've got half a dozen eggbeaters going at once. Love, Rob - <leenalton <RamanaMaharshi> Tuesday, February 25, 2003 7:58 PM [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Celestial Music MILES > Dear Rob: > When my post gets you to come out of your samadhi hybernation state I > must be doing something right or maybe wrong from another point of > view. > Thanks much for you input, but is your consciousness in alighment > with your statements? > Love, > Alton > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Alton wrote: > > Gosh when I become realized I will announce it on > the Net like all the Net wonders, no way. > Really, how many alive today have achieved the no "I > thought state". > Even Ramana had an Ego. Did not he say to some > visitors who asked him where the Swami was, "the > swami in not here". Was that Ramana's ego or just > his imaginary Ego. > > While in samadhi Ramana had no ego and no 'I' > thoughts. When not in samadhi he had an ego, like > the rest of us. The ego is the interface to > communicate in this world > > Now please don't think I am hostile to Ramana, > because so far his is tops. > Love, > Alton > > Michael says: Who says that someone has an ego? Who makes that judgement? Do we know that someone has an ego because they use the word "I" in their speach or writing? Or, do they have an ego because they are observed reading the newspaper? Is it they who have the ego? or is it the one who judges? In the Bible it is reported that Jesus said: "Judge not, lest ye be judged. For the measure by which you judge is the measure by which you will be judged." We project our sense of ourself when looking WITHOUT. The more ego we have, the more ego we see. When there is no ego, there is no sense of anyone else's ego. love michael > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dear ALL Gautama frustrated and defeated surrendered at the base of the Bodhi tree entered peace and became known as Buddha. love michael --- "gabriele_ebert <g.ebert" <g.ebert wrote: > Dear Alton, > > <I wont wait for Christ to come and raise us from > the grave. > > > This "rising from the grave" is always happening - > for those who > surrender. > > G. > > > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Dear Alton, Alton: When Ramana stated that "only a purified mind can do any practice", is not a purified mind on a progressive scale of a more purified and less purified? Well, not really! A purified mind is one which dedicates its actions (and any fruit of said actions) to God. As far as spiritual practice goes... it doesn't happen until this fundamental principal is understood. For the present discussion this is very important because if one is still looking for results and monitoring progress then dedication of actions (surrender) has not happened. When Ramana talks about getting off the mental modifications to be able to do Vichara, is not being off the mental modifications,before it occurs on a gradient of more modifications and less modifications? Well, once again, not really!! Mindstuff is either there, or not there. There is no need to quantify it. It stems from ego. Seek out the ego, eliminate the mindstuff, all in a oner. If one accepts the working of prarabdha then we should blindly surrender to what ever in happening in our life and say it is the will of God? If we strive for anything is our life we then can characterize it as ego foolishness. Lets now become enslaved in surrender and take a hit of the opiate religions of the masses. This is not my cup of tea. I wont wait for Christ to come and raise us from the grave. Now aren't I a sinful seeker? Surrender of fruits of action (good and bad) is all that is required. This does not mean that one should not go about life to the best of one's abilities. Only that one need not stand up and demand credit, kudos etc. Prarabdha is, in effect, an expunging of unspent vasanas, that's all. 'The karma disapproved by them [scriptures] is that which is done with a sense of doership.... Karma may be done for fame, or may be done unselfishly and for the public good. Yet even then they want applause.' (Ramana Maharshi) Anything attempted in this phenomenal plane can be measured on a progressive scale. This desire to measure is the very problem we are trying to overcome. It is this very 'measuring out' which sustains 'maya'. To attain that state IMO took many lifetimes of practice and it could have been measured on a progressive gradient scale. Maybe two lifetimes ago when you hit his on the head during his trance he would come out. With more practice he would not. Practice is not cumulative. The mind's desire to pattern its world makes it appear cumulative. Practice is practice until it spontaneously stops being practice. Really, how many alive today have achieved the no "I thought state". It is a daily occurence for every one. While in samadhi Ramana had no ego and no 'I' thoughts. When not in samadhi he had an ego, like the rest of us. The ego is the interface to communicate in this world The Jnani dwells in the Heart constantly. There is no coming and going. 'The existence of the ego in any form, either in the jnani or ajnani, is itself an experience. But to the ajnani who is deluded into thinking that the waking state and the world are real, the ego also appears to be real. Since he sees the jnani act like other individuals, he feels constrained to posit some notion of individuality with reference to the jnani also.' (Maharshi's Gospel/Be as You Are, Godman, 1985) Now please don't think I am hostile to Ramana, because so far his is tops. Love, Alton Indeed. Perish the thought. Thanks, Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Dear Miles, > Alton: Anything attempted in this phenomenal plane can > be measured on a progressive scale. > Miles: This desire to measure is the very problem we are > trying to overcome. It is this very 'measuring out' which > sustains 'maya'. Very little to add. Just that I find that quiet comes most easily when there is no interest in whether it has come. Just do the practice for no reason. > Alton: Really, how many alive today have achieved the > no "I thought state".> Miles: It is a daily occurence for every one. Nothing to add. Just wanted to give this sentence a second chance to be read. Rob - Miles Wright RamanaMaharshi Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:18 AM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Celestial Music MILES om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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