Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dear Drew Bhagavan has explicitly talked about his self-realization on many occasions. It is clear that what occurred was not physical death but the 'realization' that 'HE' was not the body but the deathless 'SELF'. As Bhagavan Sri Ramana narrated this experience later on for the benefit of his devotees it looked as though this was a process of reasoning, nor did he die in the physical sense. The realization came to him in a flash and he perceived the truth directly. Here is an excerpt from his own words: "It was about sax weeks before I left Madura for good that the great change in my life took place. It was quite sudden. I was sitting alone in a room on the first floor of my uncle's house. I seldom had any sickness and on that day there was nothing wrong with my health. But a sudden, violent fear of death overtook me. There was nothing in my state of health to account for it and I did not try to account for it or to find out whether there was any reason for the fear. I just felt I am going to die and began thinking what to do about it. It did not occur to me to consult a doctor or my elders or friends. I felt that I had to solve the problem myself there and then. The shock of the fear of death frove my mind inwards and I said to myself mentally without actually framing the words: 'Now, death has come. What does it mean? What is it that is dying? This body dies.' I at once dramatized the occurence of death. I lay with my limbs stretched out stiff as though rigor mortis had set in and imitated a corpse so as to give greater reality to the enquiry. I held my breath and kept my lips tightly closed, so that no sound could escape, so that neither the word 'I' nor any other word could be uttered. 'Well then', I said to myself,'this body is dead. It will be carried stiff to the burning ground and there burnt and reduced to ashes. But with the death, of this body am I dead? Is the body I? It is silent and inert but I feel the full force of my personality and even the voice of the 'I' within me, apart from it. So I am the Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the Spirit that transcends it cannot be touched by death. That means I am the deathless Spirit'. All this was not dull thought. It flashed through me vividly as living truth which I perceived directly, almost without thought process. 'I' was something very real, the only real thing about my present state, and all the conscious activity cocerned with my body was centered on that 'I'. From that moment onwards the 'I' or self focused attention on itself by a powerful fascination. Fear of death had vanished once and for all. Absorption in the self continued unbroken from that time on. Other thoughts might and go like the various notes of music, but the 'I' continued like the fundamental sruti note that underlies and blends with all the other notes. Whether the body was engaged in talking, reading or anything else, I was still centered on 'I'. Previous to that crisis, I had no clear perception of my Self and was not consciouslt attracted to it. I felt no perceptible or direct in it, much less any inclination to dwell permanently in it." Hope this was useful In Sri Bhagavan Swami >Message: 3 > Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:47:47 -0000 > "druhemp8 <druhemp8" <druhemp8 >Sadhana > >Dear RamanaMaharshi discussion: > >Best greetings. Please answer what I believe to be a >very important question and one that seems to be >disregarded i.e. self-enquiry. > >It's my understanding that Ramana Maharshi very >clearly actually physically died and then was reborn >during his sadhana. It would seem that this is a >necessary last step to Self-Realization since the >vital energy is united into the sahaja samadhi. > >Is this true? I know that Ch'an Master Nan, Huai-chi >states that even if a person knows all their past >lives and completely empties out their ego that it is >still psychological: Once the body dies the samadhi >can not be maintained to empty out the last breath and >so the physical death is just like deep sleep. This >is the limitation of the 6th and 7th consciousness >according to Buddhism with Supreme Complete >Enlightenment only acquired until the first five >(body) and the eigth (the universe) being emptied out. > > >It would seem that if physical re-birth is required in >self-enquiry than this process also entails going >beyond the body and universe -- as the universe is a >reflection of the ego. > >Please confirm this for me and also please address the >fact that this important point of sadhana is not >clarified in the self-enquiry teachings. > >Thank you, > >Drew Hempel, >Minneapolis, Minnesota, U.S. > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:11:12 -0800 (PST) > Michael Bowes <rmichaelbowes >Re: All there is the seeing of this > >UNBOUND wrote: >So what can one do with a bored mind? > >Let there be the seeing of a bored mind. Who is >actually telling me that the mind is bored? The seer >is. So go back to the seer and just see whatever >arises. > >Reply: >I'm cooking. > >love > >michael >--- UNBOUND <leenalton wrote: > > So what can one do with a bored mind? > > > > Let there be the seeing of a bored mind. Who is > > actually telling me that the mind is bored? The seer > > is. So go back to the seer and just see whatever > > arises. It is not you seeing it, it is just seeing > > it. Notice that there isn't anyone seeing it, there > > is just seeing it. It's so simple, so immediate. > > That's it. That's what all the religions and all the > > scriptures are about, simply seeing this. The only > > thing that is constant, the only thing that never > > leaves is this. You can go out of here now and go > > down the road and there will be this. It doesn't > > matter what you do or where you go, there'll always > > be this. You can never escape the lover, the > > absolute, the no-thing. You can never escape the > > one. The one is all there is. The whole point of > > what we are talking about here today is giving up > > any idea that there is anyone anywhere. There isn't > > anyone so there is nothing to do, there is nothing > > that can be done. Look for me...where is me? > > Nowhere. All there is is this. All there is the > > seeing of this. Whatever that is...feeling warm, > > hearing a sound, sitting on a chair, feeling angry, > > feeling frustrated, all of these things are simply > > sensations but there is no fixed datum called me in > > here . just happenings. > > > > > > > > Tony Parsons > > > > http://www.theopensecret.com/extracts.htm > > > > > > > > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more >http://taxes./ > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 5 > Tue, 4 Mar 2003 05:32:16 +0000 (GMT) > Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs >Re: Sadhana > > -Dear Drew , to the best of my knowledge - and in all I have ever read or >heard about Ramana's >Self Realisation I have never heard or read it stated that he actually >'died' in the physical >sense as we understand Death or Consciousness actually leaving the body >i.e. being clinically >dead .In his own description-see intro.to His Collected Works he says >clearly 'he imitated >death' .This is how it is understood by all devotees I have ever met .Yours >, In Him , Alan > > > > Best greetings. Please answer what I believe to be a > > very important question and one that seems to be > > disregarded i.e. self-enquiry. > > > > It's my understanding that Ramana Maharshi very > > clearly actually physically died and then was reborn > > during his sadhana. It would seem that this is a > > necessary last step to Self-Realization since the > > vital energy is united into the sahaja samadhi. > > > > Is this true? I know that Ch'an Master Nan, Huai-chi > > states that even if a person knows all their past > > lives and completely empties out their ego that it is > > still psychological: Once the body dies the samadhi > > can not be maintained to empty out the last breath and > > so the physical death is just like deep sleep. This > > is the limitation of the 6th and 7th consciousness > > according to Buddhism with Supreme Complete > > Enlightenment only acquired until the first five > > (body) and the eigth (the universe) being emptied out. > > > > > > It would seem that if physical re-birth is required in > > self-enquiry than this process also entails going > > beyond the body and universe -- as the universe is a > > reflection of the ego. > > > > Please confirm this for me and also please address the > > fact that this important point of sadhana is not > > clarified in the self-enquiry teachings. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Drew Hempel, > > Minneapolis, Minnesota, U.S. > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > > Un: RamanaMaharshi- > > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my. > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 6 > Tue, 4 Mar 2003 05:51:18 +0000 (GMT) > Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs >Re: Sadhana > > -Dear Drew ,a further thought .People reached Self Realisation ' with >Ramana Maharshi , in his >lifetime [see Power of the Presence Reminiscenses Vols I II & III by David >Godman]and none of them >had to undergo physical death for Self Realisation .It happened in Life >.No where does he say a >physical death is required - only death of the ego - is required , through >Surrender , Enquiry and >Divine Grace .Trust this clarifies your question ,Regards , in His Grace >, Alan . > > > > > Best greetings. Please answer what I believe to be a > > very important question and one that seems to be > > disregarded i.e. self-enquiry. > > > > It's my understanding that Ramana Maharshi very > > clearly actually physically died and then was reborn > > during his sadhana. It would seem that this is a > > necessary last step to Self-Realization since the > > vital energy is united into the sahaja samadhi. > > > > Is this true? I know that Ch'an Master Nan, Huai-chi > > states that even if a person knows all their past > > lives and completely empties out their ego that it is > > still psychological: Once the body dies the samadhi > > can not be maintained to empty out the last breath and > > so the physical death is just like deep sleep. This > > is the limitation of the 6th and 7th consciousness > > according to Buddhism with Supreme Complete > > Enlightenment only acquired until the first five > > (body) and the eigth (the universe) being emptied out. > > > > > > It would seem that if physical re-birth is required in > > self-enquiry than this process also entails going > > beyond the body and universe -- as the universe is a > > reflection of the ego. > > > > Please confirm this for me and also please address the > > fact that this important point of sadhana is not > > clarified in the self-enquiry teachings. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Drew Hempel, > > Minneapolis, Minnesota, U.S. > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > > Un: RamanaMaharshi- > > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my. > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 7 > Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:36:45 -0000 > "Alan Adams-Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs" ><alanadamsjacobs >From Talks 388 > >D.If God is All why does the individual suffer for his actions ? > >Are not the actions prompted by him for which the individual is >made to suffer ? > >M.He who thinks he is the 'doer' is also the sufferer . > >D.but the actions are prompted by God and the individual is only >His tool . > >M.This logic is applied only when one suffers , but not when one >rejoices . >If this conviction prevails always , there will be no suffering either >. > >D.When will the suffering cease ? > >M>Not until the individuality is lost . > >If both the good and bad actions are His , why should you think >that the enjoyment and suffering are alone yours ? > >He who does good or bad , also enjoys pleasure or suffers pain >. > >Leave it there and do not superimpose suffering on yourself . > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 8 > Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:09:34 +0000 (GMT) > Shyam Kumar <wockhardtin >Re: From Talks 388 > > >'Sri Bhagavan used to say that nishkamya karma (desireless action) cannot >be done so long as there is a sense of doership while performing the >action. Whether one wants the results of the action or not, it will >certainly give him the fruit since he remains an entity, the doer. So it >should be corrected to nishkartritva karma (doershipless action) instead of >nishkamya karma. Thus, the real defect of karmas is the doership and not >the expectation to get a result.' >'Do not perform any action thinking it should be done by me. Nothing is >done by you, for you are simply nothing. By knowing this first, if you >avoid the rising of doership, then everything will be done well by Him and >your peace will remain undisturbed.' >--Path of Sri Ramana, Part I, Sadhu Om. > "Alan Adams-Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs" ><alanadamsjacobs wrote:D.If God is All why does the >individual suffer for his actions ? > >Are not the actions prompted by him for which the individual is >made to suffer ? > >M.He who thinks he is the 'doer' is also the sufferer . > >D.but the actions are prompted by God and the individual is only >His tool . > >M.This logic is applied only when one suffers , but not when one >rejoices . >If this conviction prevails always , there will be no suffering either >. > >D.When will the suffering cease ? > >M>Not until the individuality is lost . > >If both the good and bad actions are His , why should you think >that the enjoyment and suffering are alone yours ? > >He who does good or bad , also enjoys pleasure or suffers pain >. > >Leave it there and do not superimpose suffering on yourself . > > > Sponsor > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi- > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > >Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > > >Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 9 > Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:39:44 +0530 > Bhattathity M P <mpmahesh >Re: From Talks 388 > >March 5th is the Sri ramakrishna Jayanthi. let us pay our obeisance and >follow his teachings. >Bhattathiry > ----- > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > > >Your use of is subject to _______________ Cricket World Cup 2003- News, Views and Match Reports. http://server1.msn.co.in/msnspecials/worldcup03/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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