Practice

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

 

I was asked in a private email to comment on my practice, after I

talked about trying early morning meditation. Two comments follow.

 

After reading a post by Linda Sherman about early morning inquiry I

have changed my daily routine. I have meditated in the morning for

several years now as a regular part of each day. Now I get up a

little earlier, about 5AM, and immediately, after relieving my

bladder, sit in inquiry.

 

What I find already is that the mind is quieter, and the meditations

are then naturally deeper. The meditations naturally last longer than

before.

 

I now continue with the old morning routine and meditate again at

about 6:30.

 

I have to say that I like this, and will continue it.

 

Though it is recommend by many teachers, I am not able to 'catch' the

mind when it rises. This mind comes on with a 'snap' when I wake.

Starting the first meditation as soon as I can there after does seem

to help.

 

One other comment: As I have written about, my teacher has

encouraged me to combine inquiry and discrimination. He says that

Knowledge (or the Absolute or whatever way you want to name that

which contains all names and has no name) is who we are already, so

Self-realization is not a matter of gaining anything, but rather a

matter of knowledge (at the same inner level as the knowledge that

you have that you exist) of the fact that all that you imagine is

binding you is but an illusion, and imagination. Get rid of the

ignorance, and all that is left is the Self.

 

For the last four months I have been slowly discriminating my way

from gross to subtle -- slowly. Until a couple of weeks ago I stayed

with "Who am I?Am I this body?" Ramana says that chief among the

misidentifications is the "I am the body" notion.

 

After some months of this meditation, the inquiry was taking me often

directly to Consciousness, rather than identification with the body.

I asked about this in satsang. Nome suggested that I continue the

discrimination, only this time go to the next step inward and see if

I am these senses. He also suggested the next step as well, am I

this mind (and world imagined by this mind).

 

While inquiring to dissolve the mind is appealing (and something that

I find resonance with in my practice), I know by now that I must take

this slowly, one step at a time.

 

No now the inquiry goes a little like this:

Who am I?

Am I this body? Someone knows this body? Who knows this body?

Who am I?

This body changes. Who I am does not. Am I this body?

Who am I?

 

Of course this does not show the silence after the "Who am I?" I

think the silence is more important than the question. This silence

is not one where the mind 'rests' comfortably in some identity or

something that is known.

 

Enough for now. Perhaps this may be of interest or useful to some.

 

We are not two,

Richard

[Guest guest]

Dear Richard:

It's always appreciated when someone on this group shares their practice.

 

Also, spiritual seekers ask questions, offer information and share what they are

doing as far as practice. They never tell anyone what they are doing is wrong.

 

Here are some questions and stuff.

What time do you go to sleep at night? If one follows the recommendations for

health and energy that the acupuncturists and Chinese herbalists offer, then 10

pm is the right time for body maintenance. So it you do go to sleep around that

time, are you able to sleep right through to 5 am? If you happen to wake before

then, do you then start your meditation at that time or do you try to go back to

sleep? Some of my teachers in the past have suggested 3 am as the best time to

start meditating. If we go to sleep at 10 pm then we get 5 hours sleep if we

wake at 3 am.

 

Another question: Do you time your sittings?

 

This week I decided to cover the clock and take off my watch. What ever time I

awake I then start my meditation. Last night I estimate it was around 1 or 2

am. I sat until my body was hurting to much and then did lying down meditation

until I dozed off. Then at around 6 am I did another sitting. It would be great

to eat, sleep and meditate when one is moved to do so. Of course if one had to

hold a job to support oneself and one's family that is not practical.

 

Since my dialogues with Miles about progress, I have loosened up lots and the

only goal I have is to sit each day as much as feasible.

 

Also, I have given up using words to keep my mind from talking to itself

incessantly. It seems to be working. For years everytime I tried to do the " I

AM' without words, I believed that I was not ready for it.

Someday I would like to give up using any means of time or day or date in my life.

 

Aloha,

Alton

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Group,I was asked in a private email to comment on my practice, after I

talked about trying early morning meditation. Two comments follow. After

reading a post by Linda Sherman about early morning inquiry I have changed my

daily routine. I have meditated in the morning for several years now as a

regular part of each day. Now I get up a little earlier, about 5AM, and

immediately, after relieving my bladder, sit in inquiry. What I find already is

that the mind is quieter, and the meditations are then naturally deeper. The

meditations naturally last longer than before. I now continue with the old

morning routine and meditate again at about 6:30. I have to say that I like

this, and will continue it. Though it is recommend by many teachers, I am not

able to 'catch' the mind when it rises. This mind comes on with a 'snap' when I

wake. Starting the first meditation as soon as I can there after does seem to

help. One other comment: As I have written about, my teacher has encouraged me

to combine inquiry and discrimination. He says that Knowledge (or the Absolute

or whatever way you want to name that which contains all names and has no name)

is who we are already, so Self-realization is not a matter of gaining anything,

but rather a matter of knowledge (at the same inner level as the knowledge that

you have that you exist) of the fact that all that you imagine is binding you is

but an illusion, and imagination. Get rid of the ignorance, and all that is left

is the Self.For the last four months I have been slowly discriminating my way

from gross to subtle -- slowly. Until a couple of weeks ago I stayed with "Who

am I?Am I this body?" Ramana says that chief among the misidentifications is

the "I am the body" notion. After some months of this meditation, the inquiry

was taking me often directly to Consciousness, rather than identification with

the body. I asked about this in satsang. Nome suggested that I continue the

discrimination, only this time go to the next step inward and see if I am these

senses. He also suggested the next step as well, am I this mind (and world

imagined by this mind).While inquiring to dissolve the mind is appealing (and

something that I find resonance with in my practice), I know by now that I must

take this slowly, one step at a time. No now the inquiry goes a little like

this: Who am I? Am I this body? Someone knows this body? Who knows this body?

Who am I?This body changes. Who I am does not. Am I this body? Who am I? Of

course this does not show the silence after the "Who am I?" I think the silence

is more important than the question. This silence is not one where the mind

'rests' comfortably in some identity or something that is known. Enough for

now. Perhaps this may be of interest or useful to some.We are not two,Richard

[Guest guest]

Sopmetimes obliterates part of a post. So, if you highlight is

with select all or the mouse you then can read it.

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya,

Alton

 

RamanaMaharshi, "UNBOUND" <unbound@h...> wrote:

>

> Dear Richard:

> It's always appreciated when someone on this group shares

their practice.

>

> Also, spiritual seekers ask questions, offer information and

share what they are doing as far as practice. They never tell anyone

what they are doing is wrong.

>

> Here are some questions and stuff.

> What time do you go to sleep at night? If one follows the

recommendations for health and energy that the acupuncturists and

Chinese herbalists offer, then 10 pm is the right time for body

maintenance. So it you do go to sleep around that time, are you able

to sleep right through to 5 am? If you happen to wake before then, do

you then start your meditation at that time or do you try to go back

to sleep? Some of my teachers in the past have suggested 3 am as the

best time to start meditating. If we go to sleep at 10 pm then we get

5 hours sleep if we wake at 3 am.

>

> Another question: Do you time your sittings?

>

> This week I decided to cover the clock and take off my watch.

What ever time I awake I then start my meditation. Last night I

estimate it was around 1 or 2 am. I sat until my body was hurting to

much and then did lying down meditation until I dozed off. Then at

around 6 am I did another sitting. It would be great to eat, sleep

and meditate when one is moved to do so. Of course if one had to hold

a job to support oneself and one's family that is not practical.

>

> Since my dialogues with Miles about progress, I have loosened

up lots and the only goal I have is to sit each day as much as

feasible.

>

> Also, I have given up using words to keep my mind from

talking to itself incessantly. It seems to be working. For years

everytime I tried to do the " I AM' without words, I believed that I

was not ready for it.

> Someday I would like to give up using any means of time or

day or date in my life.

>

> Aloha,

> Alton

>

>

>

Dear Group,

>

> I was asked in a private email to comment on my practice,

after I

> talked about trying early morning meditation. Two comments

follow.

>

> After reading a post by Linda Sherman about early morning

inquiry I

> have changed my daily routine. I have meditated in the

morning for

> several years now as a regular part of each day. Now I get up

a

> little earlier, about 5AM, and immediately, after relieving

my

> bladder, sit in inquiry.

>

> What I find already is that the mind is quieter, and the

meditations

> are then naturally deeper. The meditations naturally last

longer than

> before.

>

> I now continue with the old morning routine and meditate

again at

> about 6:30.

>

> I have to say that I like this, and will continue it.

>

> Though it is recommend by many teachers, I am not able

to 'catch' the

> mind when it rises. This mind comes on with a 'snap' when I

wake.

> Starting the first meditation as soon as I can there after

does seem

> to help.

>

> One other comment: As I have written about, my teacher has

> encouraged me to combine inquiry and discrimination. He says

that

> Knowledge (or the Absolute or whatever way you want to name

that

> which contains all names and has no name) is who we are

already, so

> Self-realization is not a matter of gaining anything, but

rather a

> matter of knowledge (at the same inner level as the knowledge

that

> you have that you exist) of the fact that all that you

imagine is

> binding you is but an illusion, and imagination. Get rid of

the

> ignorance, and all that is left is the Self.

>

> For the last four months I have been slowly discriminating my

way

> from gross to subtle -- slowly. Until a couple of weeks ago I

stayed

> with "Who am I?Am I this body?" Ramana says that chief

among the

> misidentifications is the "I am the body" notion.

>

> After some months of this meditation, the inquiry was taking

me often

> directly to Consciousness, rather than identification with

the body.

> I asked about this in satsang. Nome suggested that I continue

the

> discrimination, only this time go to the next step inward and

see if

> I am these senses. He also suggested the next step as well,

am I

> this mind (and world imagined by this mind).

>

> While inquiring to dissolve the mind is appealing (and

something that

> I find resonance with in my practice), I know by now that I

must take

> this slowly, one step at a time.

>

> No now the inquiry goes a little like this:

> Who am I?

> Am I this body? Someone knows this body? Who knows this body?

> Who am I?

> This body changes. Who I am does not. Am I this body?

> Who am I?

>

> Of course this does not show the silence after the "Who am

I?" I

> think the silence is more important than the question. This

silence

> is not one where the mind 'rests' comfortably in some

identity or

> something that is known.

>

> Enough for now. Perhaps this may be of interest or useful to

some.

>

> We are not two,

> Richard

[Guest guest]

Dear Alton,

 

Some responses:

 

I go to sleep about 11PM each night.

I sleep until about 5AM. And easily sleep through the night.

I awaken without alarms naturally.

I do not time the sittings. I have no clock or watch that is visible

from the places where I meditate. I sit each time until the

meditation is naturally through. There is, I strongly suspect, a

mental aspect of this timing, though.

 

I have tried meditation when lying down, but, like you, have found

that it is difficult to maintain the meditative focus. So I sit.

 

I know from previous postings that you find your mind to be `noisy.'

I have noticed that my mind has gotten quieter over the years of my

practice. I am grateful for this!

 

You also talk about pain when meditating. I sometimes have this as

well. I have pretty much stopped meditating on the floor or a pillow

because of knee pain. And I have had back pain since the days of

high school football. And some of my best meditations were ones in

which there was pain, but my attention was on something much deeper

than the pain, and it did not matter so much. Pain is not the

problem, rather it is giving pain the kind of attention that makes it

more real, it is attachment to and identification with the pain that

is the problem.

 

Maybe after some more months of my working on my own

misidentification with the senses, then my own attachment to pain

will become less important to me.

 

I have a family to support and work, so have needs to also fit

meditation and inquiry within that context. Ramana taught that it is

not needed to be a monk, that inquiry makes not difference what

ones `does.' (Thank goodness!)

 

I think it is beneficial not to be so concerned about progress

(though my own sense of progress makes it much easier to continue to

keep the focus on practice. I think keeping this focus is important.

One of Sankara's famous "Requisites for Realization" is "Desire for

Liberation."). The one thing I would say to your comment is that it

may not be needed to spend all the time sitting. What matters is

whether one's focus is on "things" or the Self. What matters is the

inward turned mind. Keep it turned within and finally it will come to

the full Knowledge of the Self.

 

Enough for now.

 

We are not two,

Richard

 

RamanaMaharshi, "UNBOUND" <unbound@h...> wrote:

>

> Dear Richard:

> It's always appreciated when someone on this group shares

their practice.

>

> Also, spiritual seekers ask questions, offer information and

share what they are doing as far as practice. They never tell anyone

what they are doing is wrong.

>

> Here are some questions and stuff.

> What time do you go to sleep at night? If one follows the

recommendations for health and energy that the acupuncturists and

Chinese herbalists offer, then 10 pm is the right time for body

maintenance. So it you do go to sleep around that time, are you able

to sleep right through to 5 am? If you happen to wake before then, do

you then start your meditation at that time or do you try to go back

to sleep? Some of my teachers in the past have suggested 3 am as the

best time to start meditating. If we go to sleep at 10 pm then we get

5 hours sleep if we wake at 3 am.

>

> Another question: Do you time your sittings?

>

> This week I decided to cover the clock and take off my watch.

Whatever time I awake I then start my meditation. Last night I

estimate it was around 1 or 2 am. I sat until my body was hurting to

much and then did lying down meditation until I dozed off. Then at

around 6 am I did another sitting. It would be great to eat, sleep

and meditate when one is moved to do so. Of course if one had to hold

a job to support oneself and one's family that is not practical.

>

> Since my dialogues with Miles about progress, I have loosened

up lots and the only goal I have is to sit each day as much as

feasible.

>

> Also, I have given up using words to keep my mind from

talking to itself incessantly. It seems to be working. For years

everytime I tried to do the " I AM' without words, I believed that I

was not ready for it.

> Someday I would like to give up using any means of time or

day or date in my life.

>

> Aloha,

> Alton

[Guest guest]

Dear Guruji

When we meditate will it not be better to sit on a plank 3 inches (7.5cms )

thick so that spinal pain can be avoided. This may be the reason in olden days

for all Poojas the priests used to sit on planks. There were different

thickness of planks acoording to the age and time of poojas. In my house 10

types of planks were there thickness varying from 2 inches to 6 icnhes. There

was a custom that brahmins should not sit on floors sit only on planks we say

Avani Palakas. My friend Doctor also agrered to this idea. In my experience

this has given a good effect Pl. Clarify.

Bhattathiry-----

Original Message -----

Richard Clarke

RamanaMaharshi

Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:14 PM

[RamanaMaharshi] Re: Practice

Dear Alton,Some responses:I go to sleep about 11PM each night. I sleep until

about 5AM. And easily sleep through the night. I awaken without alarms

naturally. I do not time the sittings. I have no clock or watch that is visible

from the places where I meditate. I sit each time until the meditation is

naturally through. There is, I strongly suspect, a mental aspect of this

timing, though. I have tried meditation when lying down, but, like you, have

found that it is difficult to maintain the meditative focus. So I sit. I know

from previous postings that you find your mind to be `noisy.' I have noticed

that my mind has gotten quieter over the years of my practice. I am grateful

for this! You also talk about pain when meditating. I sometimes have this as

well. I have pretty much stopped meditating on the floor or a pillow because of

knee pain. And I have had back pain since the days of high school football. And

some of my best meditations were ones in which there was pain, but my attention

was on something much deeper than the pain, and it did not matter so much.

Pain is not the problem, rather it is giving pain the kind of attention that

makes it more real, it is attachment to and identification with the pain that

is the problem. Maybe after some more months of my working on my own

misidentification with the senses, then my own attachment to pain will become

less important to me. I have a family to support and work, so have needs to

also fit meditation and inquiry within that context. Ramana taught that it is

not needed to be a monk, that inquiry makes not difference what ones `does.'

(Thank goodness!)I think it is beneficial not to be so concerned about progress

(though my own sense of progress makes it much easier to continue to keep the

focus on practice. I think keeping this focus is important. One of Sankara's

famous "Requisites for Realization" is "Desire for Liberation."). The one thing

I would say to your comment is that it may not be needed to spend all the time

sitting. What matters is whether one's focus is on "things" or the Self. What

matters is the inward turned mind. Keep it turned within and finally it will

come to the full Knowledge of the Self. Enough for now.We are not two,Richard

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhattathirty,

I agree.

Sitting on a cushion or something else stabilizes the sitting-

position. So in Zen. The body is really like a "rock". This helps the

mind also to fasten and concentrate and becoming one-pointed.

In the last retreat I became rid of all back-problems because of this

straight sitting position (a nice side-effect). Formerly longer

stretches of sitting meditation has also been painful: knees, back

(most of all the back). I really enjoy as a good aid.

 

Richard, what you say about pains during sitting: that the pain

itself is not the problem - this is a common view in Zen also. One is

forced to learn to accept - that's then a part of the training.

During a strict Sesshin most people have to suffer - some really

enormously - and there is no way out (moving or any change of the

sitting position is not allowed). So one needs to go through. One can

accept it as an expression of the Self and embrace it lovingly. Then

pains can become a source of inner strenght also.

 

For practicing atma vichara this all is not necessary at all - but it

can be an aid for some.

 

In Sri Ramana

Gabriele

 

 

 

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, Bhattathity M P

<mpmahesh@a...> wrote:

> Dear Guruji

> When we meditate will it not be better to sit on a plank 3 inches

(7.5cms ) thick so that spinal pain can be avoided. This may be the

reason in olden days for all Poojas the priests used to sit on

planks. There were different thickness of planks acoording to the age

and time of poojas. In my house 10 types of planks were there

thickness varying from 2 inches to 6 icnhes. There was a custom that

brahmins should not sit on floors sit only on planks we say Avani

Palakas. My friend Doctor also agrered to this idea. In my experience

this has given a good effect Pl. Clarify.

> Bhattathiry-----