Boring

March 11, 2003

Dear group I got so many interesting messages here on the subject of boring I

have not even "emptied my bladder" as Sri Richard noted it. LOL

There is someone close to me who has said that she does not have many thoughts

during meditation and because it is boring she wont meditate. She actually

wants thoughts which is diametrically opposed to what I want. Now she is

getting more thoughts as an effect of taking a university philosophy course. I

agree with what Miles posted on the boring mind. Could it be just tamasic mental

states appearing?

It that were true, she would have gone into the highest Buddhist states of Jnana

or absorption. I don't recall the exact time but I remember is was not very many

mind moments of no thoughts to go into the highest state. Therefore, when people

say they were thoughtless, it may be they are not aware of subtle thoughts.

As for myself, most of my meditation with wall to wall thoughts could be noted

as being boring, but since I have such a great desire for Pure Being, that I

wont characterize it as boring, just blowing away the smoke of mental

tendencies.

Occasionally I do get some real silence and to me it is an exhilarating

experience, which may be similar to snorting coke. I am not a drug person, but

tried it may years ago twice and the silence I occasionally get it similar to

the clarity and power that one gets on that drug. I noted that I want free

drugs for life to a friend and that friend did not understand.

As I progress, sorry I mean deepen, LOL, I notice that my mind states are one of

increasing clarity and mental power, similar to those drug experiences mentioned

above.

I am going to copy and paste many of these informative messages and send it to

you know who in the other room.

Its now time for breakfast of "Freedom Fries". The U.S. congress is retaliating

so today changed the name. LOL.

Love,

Not Boring Alton

March 11, 2003

Dear Group,

this is an interesting thread.

What is for sure: the true silence is never boring.

If there is boredom the sooner one comes out of it the better.

If it happens frequently during (sitting) meditation it is possibly

better not to meditate for so long stretches. One has to find out for

oneself. One also can catch this feeling and ask deep within: Who is

feeling boring? More and more this should become the practice - but

for sure: the I-I in the Heart is NOT boaring. This is a mental state

which has to be overcome also. Possibly sometimes one has to bear it

patiently - and embrace it in surrender.

In Sri Ramana

Gabriele

March 11, 2003

Dear Gabriele:

No one will ever be able to say you are boring, that's for sure.

Love,

Alton

Dear Group,this is an interesting thread. What is for sure: the true silence is

never boring.If there is boredom the sooner one comes out of it the better. If

it happens frequently during (sitting) meditation it is possibly better not to

meditate for so long stretches. One has to find out for oneself. One also can

catch this feeling and ask deep within: Who is feeling boring? More and more

this should become the practice - but for sure: the I-I in the Heart is NOT

boaring. This is a mental state which has to be overcome also. Possibly

sometimes one has to bear it patiently - and embrace it in surrender. In Sri

RamanaGabriele Post message:

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March 11, 2003

Dear Sri Gariele and ALL:

I do not know about boredom. I do not know about your

boredom. But I do know about the boredom that I-I

have experienced. It has nothing to do with sitting

meditation or formal time-wise vichara. I speak of a

boredom that appeared on its own. Because while many

persons speak and write about vichara and meditations

at certain times I refer to a boredom born of

continuous sadhana. I am trying to elucidate a part

of the death throes of ego--the dying gasps of the

"i".

michael

--- gabriele_ebert <g.ebert wrote:

> Dear Group,

> this is an interesting thread.

> What is for sure: the true silence is never boring.

>

> If there is boredom the sooner one comes out of it

> the better.

> If it happens frequently during (sitting) meditation

> it is possibly

> better not to meditate for so long stretches. One

> has to find out for

> oneself. One also can catch this feeling and ask

> deep within: Who is

> feeling boring? More and more this should become the

> practice - but

> for sure: the I-I in the Heart is NOT boaring. This

> is a mental state

> which has to be overcome also. Possibly sometimes

> one has to bear it

> patiently - and embrace it in surrender.

>

> In Sri Ramana

> Gabriele

>

Web Hosting - establish your business online

http://webhosting.

March 11, 2003

Dear Michael,

Are you really saying that boredom is part of the dying-process

of ego coming from continous sadhana? Please say more about.

In Sri Ramana

Gabriele

RamanaMaharshi, Michael Bowes

<rmichaelbowes> wrote:

> Dear Sri Gariele and ALL:

>

> I do not know about boredom. I do not know about your

> boredom. But I do know about the boredom that I-I

> have experienced. It has nothing to do with sitting

> meditation or formal time-wise vichara. I speak of a

> boredom that appeared on its own. Because while many

> persons speak and write about vichara and meditations

> at certain times I refer to a boredom born of

> continuous sadhana. I am trying to elucidate a part

> of the death throes of ego--the dying gasps of the

> "i".

>

> michael

> --- gabriele_ebert <g.ebert@g...> wrote:

> > Dear Group,

> > this is an interesting thread.

> > What is for sure: the true silence is never boring.

> >

> > If there is boredom the sooner one comes out of it

> > the better.

> > If it happens frequently during (sitting) meditation

> > it is possibly

> > better not to meditate for so long stretches. One

> > has to find out for

> > oneself. One also can catch this feeling and ask

> > deep within: Who is

> > feeling boring? More and more this should become the

> > practice - but

> > for sure: the I-I in the Heart is NOT boaring. This

> > is a mental state

> > which has to be overcome also. Possibly sometimes

> > one has to bear it

> > patiently - and embrace it in surrender.

> >

> > In Sri Ramana

> > Gabriele

> >

>

> Web Hosting - establish your business online

> http://webhosting.

March 11, 2003

Dear All,

It seems to me that boredom is a sign of the setting in of dispassion with the

material world and a necessary preliminary stage for detachment. A sign of

progress.

If boredom sets in during mediation than its nothing other but a game of the ego

not wanting to die. Then only the sword of vichara, who is it that is bored,

helps.

In Aruanachalananda

Christina

Dear Group,

this is an interesting thread.

What is for sure: the true silence is never boring.

If there is boredom the sooner one comes out of it the better.

If it happens frequently during (sitting) meditation it is possibly

better not to meditate for so long stretches. One has to find out for

oneself. One also can catch this feeling and ask deep within: Who is

feeling boring? More and more this should become the practice - but

for sure: the I-I in the Heart is NOT boaring. This is a mental state

which has to be overcome also. Possibly sometimes one has to bear it

patiently - and embrace it in surrender.

In Sri Ramana

Gabriele

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March 12, 2003

Dear Alton,

it is interesting to note that the empty mind, so interesting to some

is "boring' to others. My teacher says that for meditations to go

deep, then Self-knowledge must be a part of it. (Our minds quiet

each night during deep sleep, but since there is no Self-knowledge

involved here, it does not bring Self-realization.) It may be that

with the one close to you, that she can get to the empty mind, but

has no idea of what "to do with it."

(For me, the empty mind is a place of peace, and a place where I look

to my own deep Being, and a place where I see that I do not need even

one idea to exist. Since this supports my Self-knowledge as one who

is not even one single thought, then this experience -- together with

the subtle discrimination that this experence makes possible -- is

one that brings me real inner peace, and I find highly desirable.)

It is also funny that while you still struggle with thoughts, that

your other does not. My wife and I have the opposite situation; My

mind often gets quiet pretty quickly, and she says that hers rarely

does. Her mind is the quietest, I think, in satsang and when I read

to her from "Song of Ribhu."

WE are not two,

Richard

RamanaMaharshi, " UNBOUND" <unbound@h...>

wrote:

> Dear group I got so many interesting messages here on the subject

of boring I have not even "emptied my bladder" as Sri Richard noted

it. LOL

>

> There is someone close to me who has said that she does not have

many thoughts during meditation and because it is boring she wont

meditate. She actually wants thoughts which is diametrically opposed

to what I want. Now she is getting more thoughts as an effect of

taking a university philosophy course. I agree with what Miles

posted on the boring mind. Could it be just tamasic mental states

appearing?

> It that were true, she would have gone into the highest Buddhist

states of Jnana or absorption. I don't recall the exact time but I

remember is was not very many mind moments of no thoughts to go into

the highest state. Therefore, when people say they were thoughtless,

it may be they are not aware of subtle thoughts.

>

> As for myself, most of my meditation with wall to wall thoughts

could be noted as being boring, but since I have such a great desire

for Pure Being, that I wont characterize it as boring, just blowing

away the smoke of mental tendencies.

>

> Occasionally I do get some real silence and to me it is an

exhilarating experience, which may be similar to snorting coke. I am

not a drug person, but tried it may years ago twice and the silence I

occasionally get it similar to the clarity and power that one gets on

that drug. I noted that I want free drugs for life to a friend and

that friend did not understand.

> As I progress, sorry I mean deepen, LOL, I notice that my mind

states are one of increasing clarity and mental power, similar to

those drug experiences mentioned above.

>

> I am going to copy and paste many of these informative messages and

send it to you know who in the other room.

>

> Its now time for breakfast of "Freedom Fries". The U.S. congress is

retaliating so today changed the name. LOL.

>

> Love,

> Not Boring Alton

March 12, 2003

Dear Gabriele:

That may be true; but really I don't know for sure.

michael

--- gabriele_ebert <g.ebert wrote:

> Dear Michael,

> Are you really saying that boredom is part of the

> dying-process

> of ego coming from continous sadhana? Please say

> more about.

>

> In Sri Ramana

> Gabriele

>

> RamanaMaharshi, Michael Bowes

>

> <rmichaelbowes> wrote:

> > Dear Sri Gariele and ALL:

> >

> > I do not know about boredom. I do not know about

> your

> > boredom. But I do know about the boredom that I-I

> > have experienced. It has nothing to do with

> sitting

> > meditation or formal time-wise vichara. I speak

> of a

> > boredom that appeared on its own. Because while

> many

> > persons speak and write about vichara and

> meditations

> > at certain times I refer to a boredom born of

> > continuous sadhana. I am trying to elucidate a

> part

> > of the death throes of ego--the dying gasps of the

> > "i".

> >

> > michael

> > --- gabriele_ebert <g.ebert@g...> wrote:

> > > Dear Group,

> > > this is an interesting thread.

> > > What is for sure: the true silence is never

> boring.

> > >

> > > If there is boredom the sooner one comes out of

> it

> > > the better.

> > > If it happens frequently during (sitting)

> meditation

> > > it is possibly

> > > better not to meditate for so long stretches.

> One

> > > has to find out for

> > > oneself. One also can catch this feeling and ask

> > > deep within: Who is

> > > feeling boring? More and more this should become

> the

> > > practice - but

> > > for sure: the I-I in the Heart is NOT boaring.

> This

> > > is a mental state

> > > which has to be overcome also. Possibly

> sometimes

> > > one has to bear it

> > > patiently - and embrace it in surrender.

> > >

> > > In Sri Ramana

> > > Gabriele

> > >

> >

> > Web Hosting - establish your business

> online

> > http://webhosting.

>

Web Hosting - establish your business online

http://webhosting.

March 12, 2003

Dear Richard or anyone:

Richard:it is interesting to note that the empty mind, so interesting to some is

"boring' to others. My teacher says that for meditations to go deep, then

Self-knowledge must be a part of it. (Our minds quiet each night during deep

sleep, but since there is no Self-knowledge involved here, it does not bring

Self-realization.) It may be that with the one close to you, that she can get

to the empty mind, but has no idea of what "to do with it."

Alton:

Ramana, I read, said that you can Realize in swoon, but not in deep sleep.

So, I presume there is more awareness in swoon. I presume that swoon is when you

faint, but to me there is practically no awareness when you faint, so I am

slightly confused.

What about dreams, can one Realize during a dream if it is a lucid dream?

Also,If you remember your deep sleep and you are the Self during deep sleep,

why is not the memory enough to enable Realization.

"She" said that I have a model and teachings that I believe in, that makes

having a silent mind or no thoughts of value, but she does not, so it is not

valuable to her. Is "she" right that I have been brainwashed so that I will get

joy from a silent mind or Realization, but others who don't have that

conditioning wont? I do believe that if someone had the Realization and did

not have the cosmology to go along with it, they would only be freaked by it

and might commit themselves to a mental ward or take Prozac.

Richard again:(For me, the empty mind is a place of peace, and a place where I

look to my own deep Being, and a place where I see that I do not need even one

idea to exist. Since this supports my Self-knowledge as one who is not even one

single thought, then this experience -- together with the subtle discrimination

that this experience makes possible -- is one that brings me real inner peace,

and I find highly desirable.)

It is also funny that while you still struggle with thoughts, that your other

does not. My wife and I have the opposite situation; My mind often gets quiet

pretty quickly, and she says that hers rarely does. Her mind is the quietest, I

think, in satsang and when I read to her from "Song of Ribhu."

Atlon:

When your mind gets quiet pretty quickly, you are then thoughtless, or just have

fewer thoughts? It you mind got totally silent would you not go automatically

into Samadhi states? Or are you talking about relative quiet?

Thanks in advance for any members to reply.

Mahalo,

Alton is so far two,three, four, and many more.

Maybe I can have multiple Realizations with this split personality. ROFLMBO.

Bhattathity M P: Do you have some alternative meanings for ROFLMBO?

March 12, 2003

Dear Alton,

Most teachers recommend meditation when awake.

I have been watching the dream state, seeing what I can see from

gross to subtle, as a aide to discrimination. Clearly I can

experience the dream body, dream world, dream senses and sream

emotions. I have not been able to see, so far dream thoughts. I also

have not yet (as far as I can remember) been able to dream meditate.

I would not way that I have been brainwashed to get joy from the

empty mind, though I find it there (for me it is more 'inner peace'

than 'joy'). Again, my teacher says is that what is experienced

depend entirely on "Where one stands." it is most likely that when I

experience the empth mind and when your wife experiences it, we are

looking from different 'stands.' Also, for me (and I think for many

others who meditate) what happens is an open minded (and open

hearted) looking to see what is there, and to see for myself what is

true. This does not seem like brainwashing to me. It seems more

like seeing what is there.

When my mind is quiet, then there are no thoughts (there are also

times where there are few thoughts). Most of the time it does not

(yet) seem to me like a samadhi state. I still am aware of me and the

quiet mind, so it is, so far, not nearly as 'deep' as it gets.

With the quiet mind, this is also a kind of 'timeless' state. We

normally measure time by activity or by the passing of thoughts.

When there are no thoughts, it seems to me that the sense of passage

of time is very different. Perhaps others could comment on this.

I have had periods where it seemed like I was "standing in the

Silence." This seemed very deep to me. This silence does not depend

on outer silence, but is much more interior. So far the longest (in

worldly time) that this has lasted is a few hours.

We are not two,

Richard

RamanaMaharshi, " UNBOUND" <unbound@h...>

wrote:

> Dear Richard or anyone:

>

> Richard:

> it is interesting to note that the empty mind, so interesting to

some

> is "boring' to others. My teacher says that for meditations to

go

> deep, then Self-knowledge must be a part of it. (Our minds quiet

> each night during deep sleep, but since there is no Self-

knowledge

> involved here, it does not bring Self-realization.) It may be

that

> with the one close to you, that she can get to the empty mind,

but

> has no idea of what "to do with it."

> Alton:

> Ramana, I read, said that you can Realize in swoon, but not in

deep sleep.

> So, I presume there is more awareness in swoon. I presume that

swoon is when you faint, but to me there is practically no awareness

when you faint, so I am slightly confused.

> What about dreams, can one Realize during a dream if it is a

lucid dream? Also,If you remember your deep sleep and you are the

Self during deep sleep, why is not the memory enough to enable

Realization.

>

> "She" said that I have a model and teachings that I believe in,

that makes having a silent mind or no thoughts of value, but she does

not, so it is not valuable to her. Is "she" right that I have been

brainwashed so that I will get joy from a silent mind or Realization,

but others who don't have that conditioning wont? I do believe that

if someone had the Realization and did not have the cosmology to go

along with it, they would only be freaked by it and might commit

themselves to a mental ward or take Prozac.

>

> Richard again:

> (For me, the empty mind is a place of peace, and a place where I

look

> to my own deep Being, and a place where I see that I do not need

even

> one idea to exist. Since this supports my Self-knowledge as one

who

> is not even one single thought, then this experience -- together

with

> the subtle discrimination that this experience makes possible --

is

> one that brings me real inner peace, and I find highly desirable.)

>

> It is also funny that while you still struggle with thoughts,

that

> your other does not. My wife and I have the opposite situation;

My

> mind often gets quiet pretty quickly, and she says that hers

rarely

> does. Her mind is the quietest, I think, in satsang and when I

read

> to her from "Song of Ribhu."

>

> Atlon:

> When your mind gets quiet pretty quickly, you are then

thoughtless, or just have fewer thoughts? It you mind got totally

silent would you not go automatically into Samadhi states? Or are you

talking about relative quiet?

> Thanks in advance for any members to reply.

>

> Mahalo,

> Alton is so far two,three, four, and many more.

> Maybe I can have multiple Realizations with this split

personality. ROFLMBO.

> Bhattathity M P: Do you have some alternative meanings for

ROFLMBO?

March 12, 2003

--- Dear Alton

You wrote:

> Richard:

> it is interesting to note that the empty mind, so interesting to some

> is "boring' to others. My teacher says that for meditations to go

> deep, then Self-knowledge must be a part of it. (Our minds quiet

> each night during deep sleep, but since there is no Self-knowledge

> involved here, it does not bring Self-realization.) It may be that

> with the one close to you, that she can get to the empty mind, but

> has no idea of what "to do with it."

> Alton:

> Ramana, I read, said that you can Realize in swoon, but not in deep sleep.

> So, I presume there is more awareness in swoon. I presume that swoon is when

you faint, but to

> me there is practically no awareness when you faint, so I am slightly

confused.

> What about dreams, can one Realize during a dream if it is a lucid dream?

Also,If you remember

> your deep sleep and you are the Self during deep sleep, why is not the memory

enough to enable

> Realization.

Ramana said on several occaisions that Self Realisation for the ajnani is only

possible in the

waking state -hence it's value.[see Talks]

>

> "She" said that I have a model and teachings that I believe in, that makes

having a silent

> mind or no thoughts of value, but she does not, so it is not valuable to her.

Is "she" right

Yes .people have had experiences akin to an awakening i.e.losing the sense of '

me 'without ending

the vasanas .This Ramana calls a first stage awakening {see Letters} - the

second stage is when

the vasanas are burned out and harmless .But without a model - people do not

know what is

happening to them and become very confused .They may go to a psych. with an

identity crisis

problem .Unless one has studied this Teaching one would not know what is going

on .There is a

famous case of Suzanne Segal who this happened to .She has written a book .She

thought she was

going mad and visited many psychs .who couldn't help her .She then met Jean

Klein who put her in

context and told her what had happenned ,and all was well .I have forgotten the

Title of the book

regretably .

> that I have been brainwashed so that I will get joy from a silent mind or

Realization, but

> others who don't have that conditioning wont?

The brain needs washing .This teaching cleanses and purifies the mind by

surrender and self

enquiry so that an awakening can safely take place .Without the conditioning of

the teaching

people will be confused and disorientated as was Suzanne Segal .

I do believe that if someone had the Realization

> and did not have the cosmology to go along with it, they would only be freaked

by it and might

> commit themselves to a mental ward or take Prozac.

Yes ,as above .

Trust this clarifies the question somewhat , Love as ever , in His Grace , Alan

>

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

March 12, 2003

Dear Alan:

Here is a link for Suzanne Segal.

Also, thanks for you views on "boring".

I will post more soon on it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Suzanne+Segal&btnG=Google+Search

Aloha,

Alton

--- Dear AltonYou wrote:> Richard:> it is interesting to note that the empty

mind, so interesting to some > is "boring' to others. My teacher says that

for meditations to go > deep, then Self-knowledge must be a part of it. (Our

minds quiet > each night during deep sleep, but since there is no

Self-knowledge > involved here, it does not bring Self-realization.) It may

be that > with the one close to you, that she can get to the empty mind, but

> has no idea of what "to do with it." > Alton: > Ramana, I read, said

that you can Realize in swoon, but not in deep sleep.> So, I presume there is

more awareness in swoon. I presume that swoon is when you faint, but to> me

there is practically no awareness when you faint, so I am slightly confused. >

What about dreams, can one Realize during a dream if it is a lucid dream?

Also,If you remember> your deep sleep and you are the Self during deep sleep,

why is not the memory enough to enable> Realization.Ramana said on several

occaisions that Self Realisation for the ajnani is only possible in thewaking

state -hence it's value.[see Talks] > > "She" said that I have a model and

teachings that I believe in, that makes having a silent> mind or no thoughts of

value, but she does not, so it is not valuable to her. Is "she" rightYes .people

have had experiences akin to an awakening i.e.losing the sense of ' me 'without

endingthe vasanas .This Ramana calls a first stage awakening {see Letters} -

the second stage is whenthe vasanas are burned out and harmless .But without a

model - people do not know what ishappening to them and become very confused

..They may go to a psych. with an identity crisis problem .Unless one has

studied this Teaching one would not know what is going on .There is afamous

case of Suzanne Segal who this happened to .She has written a book .She thought

she wasgoing mad and visited many psychs .who couldn't help her .She then met

Jean Klein who put her incontext and told her what had happenned ,and all was

well .I have forgotten the Title of the bookregretably .> that I have been

brainwashed so that I will get joy from a silent mind or Realization, but>

others who don't have that conditioning wont? The brain needs washing .This

teaching cleanses and purifies the mind by surrender and selfenquiry so that an

awakening can safely take place .Without the conditioning of the teachingpeople

will be confused and disorientated as was Suzanne Segal .I do believe that if

someone had the Realization> and did not have the cosmology to go along with it,

they would only be freaked by it and might> commit themselves to a mental ward

or take Prozac.Yes ,as above .Trust this clarifies the question somewhat ,

Love as ever , in His Grace , Alan > > >

Everything

you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music

Chartshttp://uk.my. Post message:

RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-

Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner:

RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page:

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subject to the

March 12, 2003

Dear Alan and Alton,

Suzanne Segal's book is called "Collision with the

Infnite."

A small part of the book is on the web here:

http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0095.htm

Rob

-

"Alan Jacobs" <alanadamsjacobs

Wednesday, March 12, 2003 11:53 PM

Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Boring

>... There is a

> famous case of Suzanne Segal who this happened to .She has written a book .She

thought she was

> going mad and visited many psychs .who couldn't help her .She then met Jean

Klein who put her in

> context and told her what had happenned ,and all was well .I have forgotten

the Title of the book regretably .

>

March 12, 2003

Dear Alton,

> I do believe that if someone had the Realization and

> did not have the cosmology to go along with it, they

> would only be freaked by it and might commit themselves

> to a mental ward or take Prozac.

Ramana Maharshi himself is an example. He didn't know

what happened to him. In the words of David Godman:

"Years later, when he was recollecting this experience he

said that he thought at the time that he had caught some

strange disease. However, he thought that it was such a nice

disease, he hoped he wouldn't recover from it. At one time,

soon after the experience, he also speculated that he might

have been possessed. When he discussed the events with

Narasimhaswami, his first English biographer, he repeatedly

used the Tamil word avesam, which means possession by a

spirit, to describe his initial reactions to the event."

-- quoted from http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/jd1.shtml

Rob

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UNBOUND

RamanaMaharshi

Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:01 PM