Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 hello all, i am new to this group and sought membership here with the sole puprose of seeking answers to questions that have been dwelling in my mind for some time. i request members of this group to kindly send answers to questions that i post here. Even though my association with the advaitha philosophy has been only superficial and casual, i began to believe that advaitha describes 'reality' in the most consistent and complete way to ignorant souls like mine who has not yet experienced the truth. However i have this question to which i could not find convincing answers. If the experiences of the self are maya and liberation is when the self realises the truth, i ask why is it that the self not born liberated and why does the self need to struggle to realise the truth. what is the need for the existenece of maya. why does this 'relative' world exist as is perceived? hoping to read answers to the question, mahesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 --- Mahesh Y <yellai_mahesh wrote: If the experiences of the self are maya and liberation is when the self realises the truth, i ask why is it that the self not born liberated and why does the self need to struggle to realise the truth. what is the need for the existenece of maya. why does this 'relative' world exist as is perceived? Dear Mahesh, Nobody knows "why". But the opening of the heart and the resulting experience of the SELF totally erases the need to know "why". Love, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Hi Mahesh, RamanaMaharshi, "Mahesh Y" <yellai_mahesh> wrote: > hello all, > > i am new to this group and sought membership here with the sole > puprose of seeking answers to questions that have been dwelling in my > mind for some time. > > i request members of this group to kindly send answers to questions > that i post here. > > Even though my association with the advaitha philosophy has been only > superficial and casual, i began to believe that advaitha > describes 'reality' in the most consistent and complete way to > ignorant souls like mine who has not yet experienced the truth. Given that you say you have yet to experience the truth, curious how do you conclude whether something describes it completely? > However i have this question to which i could not find convincing > answers. > > If the experiences of the self are maya and liberation is when the > self realises the truth, If the experiences of the self are all maya, then is the self apart from that maya? And if the self is not apart from maya, .....it's so called experience of liberation or realization of truth, ....is it anything apart from the same maya? > i ask why is it that the self not born liberated and why does the > self need to struggle to realise the truth. Is there a birth of a self in the first place? Whether it is non-liberated and becomes liberated, is a secondary hoopla. > what is the need for the existenece of maya. So that the relative world appears to exist. > why does this 'relative' world exist as is perceived? Why not? If the relative world did not appear to exist, how would there be an appearance of a "Mahesh" asking the question "why does this 'relative' world exist as is perceived?" Maya ensures the "thickening of the plot".:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Dear Mahesh, Interestingly, yesterday I took a piece from the book "Day by day with Bhagavan" and posted it to the atmavichara group about this topic "maya" and here you have posed that question. I am copying that part here again. Visitor: Sri Aurobindo says the world is real and you > and the Vedantins say it is unreal. How can the world > be unreal? > > Bhagavan: The Vedantins do not say the world is > unreal. That is a misunderstanding. If they did, > what would be the meaning of the Vedantic text: "All > this is Brahman"? They only mean that the world is > unreal as world, but it is real as Self. If you > regard the world as not-Self it is not real. > Everything, whether you call it world or maya or lila > or sakti, must be within the Self and not apart from > it. There can be no Sakti apart from Sakta. The bottom line is how the mind percieves things. The same scenario is perceived by different minds based on their habits/conditioning. So we end up having infinite debates on who is right/wrong etc. But one thing that cannot be debated is the "I" that is doing the debates/questioning? The best recourse then is to go after that "I" and seek its source and not focus on things that are debatable. love Yamini --- Mahesh Y <yellai_mahesh wrote: > hello all, > > i am new to this group and sought membership here > with the sole > puprose of seeking answers to questions that have > been dwelling in my > mind for some time. > > i request members of this group to kindly send > answers to questions > that i post here. > > Even though my association with the advaitha > philosophy has been only > superficial and casual, i began to believe that > advaitha > describes 'reality' in the most consistent and > complete way to > ignorant souls like mine who has not yet experienced > the truth. > > However i have this question to which i could not > find convincing > answers. > > If the experiences of the self are maya and > liberation is when the > self realises the truth, > i ask why is it that the self not born liberated and > why does the > self need to struggle to realise the truth. what is > the need for the > existenece of maya. why does this 'relative' world > exist as is > perceived? > > hoping to read answers to the question, > mahesh. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 RamanaMaharshi, "Mahesh Y" <yellai_mahesh> wrote: > > If the experiences of the self are maya and liberation is when the > self realises the truth, > i ask why is it that the self not born liberated and why does the > self need to struggle to realise the truth. what is the need for the > existenece of maya. why does this 'relative' world exist as is > perceived? > because the intelligent ape (the individual body/mind) has to run when a tiger is rushing towards him. in order for him to survive, the mind of the ape reconstructs the event like the moving frames of a film. if the intelligent ape manages to get away from the tiger, he gets to tell the story of his escape to himself and to others. so far the relative movie for the ape is relatively simple. the problem begins when the metaphors such as the "self,maya,liberation,bondage,truth,time" are introduced as conceptual ghosts. in other words, we (the evolution) have invented those terms as useful psychological tools but they have no reality in themselves. this is where it starts to get tricky because he is now puzzled by the relationship and the meaning of those ghost figures in the "relative" world. the ghost figures kept alive by the memory and haunts us in our imagination. the tiger on the other hand is neither concerned with liberation nor with the so called truth. or it can be said that, since the tiger is free of those intelligent concepts, it's born liberated. natural liberation of tiger may seem like a bizzare concept only because there's no such thing as mental bondage for the tiger. hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 RamanaMaharshi, "Hur Guler" <hurg> wrote: > RamanaMaharshi, "Mahesh Y" > <yellai_mahesh> wrote: > > > > > If the experiences of the self are maya and liberation is when the > > self realises the truth, > > i ask why is it that the self not born liberated and why does the > > self need to struggle to realise the truth. what is the need for > the > > existenece of maya. why does this 'relative' world exist as is > > perceived? > > > > because the intelligent ape (the individual body/mind) has to run > when a tiger is rushing towards him. in order for him to survive, > the mind of the ape reconstructs the event like the moving frames of > a film. > > if the intelligent ape manages to get away from the tiger, he gets to > tell the story of his escape to himself and to others. so far the > relative movie for the ape is relatively simple. the problem begins > when the metaphors such as > the "self,maya,liberation,bondage,truth,time" are > introduced as conceptual ghosts. in other words, we (the evolution) > have invented those terms as useful psychological tools but they have > no reality in themselves. > > this is where it starts to get tricky because he is now puzzled by > the relationship and the meaning of those ghost figures in > the "relative" world. the ghost figures kept alive by the memory and > haunts us in our imagination. the tiger on the other hand is neither > concerned with liberation nor with the so called truth. or it can be > said that, since the tiger is free of those intelligent concepts, > it's born liberated. natural liberation of tiger may seem like a > bizzare concept only because there's no such thing as mental bondage for the tiger. -------- Yes. Excellent. Eons back, arriving at Serengeti, a game reserve in Tanzania, ....noticed a half-broken hanging placard on the gate of the Game Reserve. Something was etched on that placard. With some difficulty, read...."In Serengeti, there is neither malice nor remorse." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 ---Dear Mahesh , you wrote, > > If the experiences of the self are maya and liberation is when the > self realises the truth, > i ask why is it that the self not born liberated The Self is Unborn and always free .The imaginary bondage is caused by the identification with the mind-body-system-sense of personal doership-egotism etc. and why does the > self need to struggle to realise the truth. There is a yearning for Self realistaion by the suffering jiva[false sense of individuality]and it takes effort to get free from accumalated mental habits and tendencies based on a so called 'me' what is the need for the > existenece of maya. why does this 'relative' world exist as is > perceived? Why the existence of Maya ?According to Ramana it is simply inscrutable ..Various theories have been put forward such as the Lila of the Creative Energy ,an adventure the Jiva is forced to undertake for its spritual development etc. All questions "why?" are only to satisfy the restless intellect which does not recognize its own limitation .How can a worm understand the world economic system for example ,and how can man understand the need for universal cosmic harmony .If you have a bad tooth ache[the pain of samsara]go to the teachings of a Great Enlightened Sage like Ramana Maharshi and hopefully it will be extracted . Every best wish in the joys of our teaching, Alan ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.