sooryasya soorya - post 5

[Guest guest]

Post 5

 

Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer,

 

Sri Sukumar, at whose behest the post containing details of 11 rudhraas etc was

sent to the list, writes - quote -

"There is a comparison between Lord Krishna and Lord Raghurama by mentioning

that while Krishna is Surya (as propounded by him in Bhagavath geethaa), Rama

has been mentioned as 'Suryasya Surya'. My ignorant mind thinks that there is

not an iota of difference between Krishna and Rama, in as far as their para

thathva is concerned. May be there is a difference in their leelas (as

propounded by Narada while explaining the slOka -

vadanthi thathva vidastha thvam yathgyanamadhvayam;

brahmethi paramathmethi bhagavan ithi shabdyathe)

but both are Parabrahma, although they are avataara purushas and are being

called by various names by gyanis". - unquote.

 

I, earlier, thought that this kind of an impression of comparing who is great -

raamaa or krishNa - will be created in the minds of bhakthaas when they read

"raamaa as sooryasya soorya" as said by mother sumithraa and krishNa as soorya

only as said in bhagavath geetha 10 -21.

I just wanted to continue the topic and in the run would have expalined there is

no such difference or comparison at all between raamaa and krishNa.

 

Further, I am more cautious not to do such a comparison between raama and

krishNa, that too since I am a krishNa bhaktha. [as now established amongst the

bhakthaas in the various lists where in my name is found as a r -

perhaps our respected moderator of this list will vouch that without

hesitation].

 

But since the point is already raised by sri sukumar, it is my bounden duty to

clarify the position immediately [incidentally he does not express there is not

an iota of difference between two] - to say a very firm - yes only - there is NO

TRACE OF DOUBT even to say this- it is same paramaathma in btwo different

avathaarams.

 

[i would request sri sukumar to give the source of this slOkam - it will be very

nice of him.].

 

Now by way of additional clarification - In the same bhagavath geethaa in the

15th chapter titled "purushOththama yOgam", in slOkams 12 and 13 sri krishna

says - same sri krishNa who says "aadhithyaanaam aham vishNu" -

 

yadhaadhithya gatham thEjO jagadh BhaasayathE~khilam|

yach chandhramasi yachchaagnou thath thEjO vidhDhi maamaakam || - 15 -12

 

meaning: "oh arjuna" which is understood since whiole geetha is an address to

arjuna - "understand that effulgence which emanates from the sun illuminating

the entire universe, and that effulgence which is in the moon, and in fire, know

it is from me".

 

gaam aavisya cha Bhoothaani Dhaasyaamyaham Ojasaa|

pushNaami cha OshaDhee: sarvaa: sOmO Bhoothvaa rasa aathmaka: || 15-13

 

meaning - "Oh arjuna, understood - "permeating through out the planetary

systems, I maintain all moving and stationary beings by my potency, and having

become the essence of moon, I nourish all plant life".

 

Since the planetary system includes sun, without doubt, as established in modern

day scienc also, I think from these two slOkams the supreme nature of the lord

is clear - that purushOththama, my krishna, - is the light provider or energy

provider to the soorya himself - means "sooryasya soorya".

 

Now on this - purusha uththama or uththama purusha - in samskrith grammar

uththama purusha means first person. With a little pun on the first person - yes

- krishNa is the first person - primality of all - sooryasya soorya - all are

only second to him.

 

Like "aadhithyaanaam aham vishNu: --- nakshathraaNam aham sasee" in bhagavath

geetha 10 -21which is called vibhoothi yOgam, in the "udhDhava geethaa" also

same bhagavaan sri krishNa says -

 

airaavatham gajEndhraaNaam yaadhasaam varuNam praBhum|

thapathaam dhyumathaam sooryam manushyaaNaam cha Bhoopathim ||

 

slokam 17 chapter 16, 11th skandham of srimadh Bhaagavatham [again titled

vibhoothi vivaraNam] .

 

Meaning: amongst the elephants, I am airaavatham [the elephant of king

dhEvEndhran], amongst the waters [or rivers or aquatic monsters] I am varuNa,

the god of water and rain,

I am the sun among the burning [thapathaam] and splendorous objects or subjects

like moon, sun, stars etc,

I am the king among the human beings - manushaya.

 

vaasudhEvO Bhagavathaam thvam thu BhaagavathEshu aham |

kimpurushaaNaam hanumaan vidhyaaDharaaNaam sudharsana: ||

 

slokam 29 chapter 16, 11th skandham of srimadh Bhaagavatham

 

meaning: I am vaasudhEva among the gods [bhagavaans]

I am you, among the bhaagavathaas servants of the lord, [oh, udhDhava, for it is

addressed to udhDhava - like arjuna in bhagavath geethaa]

I am hanumaan among the kimpurushaas - mystical subjects

I am sudharsana among the vidhyaadharaas - the servants of siva.

 

Thus while describing his superiority, the lord says I am that 'greatest' among

known great things.

 

I have to add two points here -

Yaadhas means - any large aquatic animal, sea monster, river, water, etc.

Yaadhu means water.

This word is a special used in srimadh bhaagavatha puraaNam.

 

vidhyaadharaas are servants of siva living in himaalayaas [see P 964 col 1

Monier williams] . sudharsana mentioned here has nothing to do with the

sudharsana - the chakra or discus - a weapon of the supreme lord naaraayaNa.

This "sudharsana" is the son of agni and his wife sudharsanaa serving siva [see

monier williams p 1224 col 2].

 

Trust no such comparison is even thought about on aspects between krishna and

raama.

 

Continuing the sooryasya soorya, mother sumithraa further says

 

naarhaa thvam sochithum dhEvi yasyaasthE raaghavas sutha: |

na hi raamaathparO lOkE vidhyathE sathpathhE sthhitha: ||

 

srimadh vaalmeeki raamaayaNam ayOdhyaa kaaNdam sargam 44 slOkam 26

 

dhEvi = oh, queen kousalyaa!

yasyaa: = which

thE = to you

raaghava: = raamaa

sutha: = is your son

thvam = you as such

na arhaa = are not deserving;

sOchithum = to grieve

na vidhyathE = none is there

lOkE = in the world

para: = other

raamaath = than raamaa

sthhitha: = who is established

sathpathhE = in right path

 

Meaning: Oh, queen! You, whose son is raamaa, ought not to grieve, for none is

established in right path in the world than raaamaa.

 

Points:

1. See the beauty here. None is established in this world in the right path

other than raamaa. So whatever he does is right.

2. At this stage of raamaayaNam only the killing of thaataka was done -

initially with a slight hesitation - by raama.

All others are only good things like ahalya episode, seethaa vivvaham,

dhasarathaa's proposal of coroation and raama leaving for forest as per father's

orders.

3. But mother says whatever raamaa does is right. Can this be extended to vaali

vadham also.

 

We will continue in next post.

 

Dhasan

 

Vasudevan m.g.

[Guest guest]

Sri Krishnaya Namah!

 

Dear Sri Vasudevan,

 

Thanks for your time. I have not sought clarification, although I just

wanted to highlight the comparative notion behind Lord Rama and Lord

Krishna.

 

Thanks for your valuable time in this particular topic "sooryasya soorya"

and I have greatly enjoyed reading those. I am sorry that I have misquoted

the sloka as have been rendered by Narada, while it was by Sri Veda Vyasa

which was incidentally been mentioned by Narada in his Narada Bhakthi

Darshana. This was given in my earlier post and the same is reproduced

below for your perusal:

 

Sri Krishnadwaipayana in SMB says -

vadanthi thathva vidastha thvam yathgyanamadhvayam

brahmethi paramathmethi bhagavanithi shabdyathe

 

that which possess this universe with its shakthi and is the reason for its

expansion, that is sachidananda swarupa. Gyanis meditate on Him as Brahma;

that who possess sakala kalyana gunas with divya vibhuti, which is all

powerfull but no sakhas(friends) or leelas is Paramathma;

that who possess all the kalyana gunas, is all powerful and has various

namas, rupa, leelas and one who has sakhas is Sri Krishna Bhagavan.

 

Sarvaaparadha Kshamasva!

 

Sukumar

 

Sri Krishnaparabrahmane Namah!