Guest guest Posted August 22, 2003 Report Share Posted August 22, 2003 Post 4 Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, Continuing the topic of "good governance- raamaa's style", we saw in post 3, what was king dhasarathhaa's organisation structure in governing his state, the cabinet [consisting of 8 ministers] and a super cabinet [8 rishis advicing king without getting directly involved in day to day administration, but effectively putting a check to king when required]. Also we saw the ministers were * Tactful * Adroit * Always obliging * Efficient in administration * Welfare of the kingdom was the top point always in their agenda * Nothing was happening in their country and neighbouring country unknown to them We could not see in this sargam [baala kaaNdam sargam] how these ministers were appointed or what kind of persons were selected by the king to be his ministers. For knowing that, perhaps, we have to move on to the kachchith sargam in ayOdhyaa kaaNdam. Sri raamaa asks bharatha on each step on these points how he has selected his ministers. Actually perhaps raama may not want to check such minute points, for, he knew what kind of people bharatha has inherited as prince. Sri vaalmeeki wants us, the later day mortals, to know what kind of persons, we must have as ministers, by reading his work. Further on the functioning of these ministers, also raamaa asks questions to his brother - have you checked these persons on ------ during the tenure as ministers. kachchid aathma samaa: sooraa: sruthavanthO jithEndhriyaa: | kuleenaascha ingithajnaascha kruthaasthE thaatha manthriNa: || 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 15 thaatha = my dear bharatha - my father [actually thaatha means father - since here it is addressed to raamaa's younger brother in love and affection it is to betaken as my dear] kachchidh = few aathma samaa: = who understand the king thoroughly and act accordingly sooraa: = valiant sruthavantha: = having sound knowledge of vEdhaas and saasthraas jithEndhriyaa: = who have well controlled senses kuleenaa: cha = hailing from well established families ingithajnaa: cha = well intentioned people, who can understand the mind of king, [or prince] and act accordingly manthriNa: = ministers kruthaasthE = made meaning: Oh my dear bharathaa, have you made persons who possess following as ministers * who can understand the king closely and his mind, * valiant, * having sound knowledge of vEdhaas and saasthraas, * who have controlled their senses, * hailing from good families, * well intentioned Point: See how many qualifications a person must have to become a minister in a monarchy. Compare it with a democracy. It spells on qualities of ministers, what we have in a democracy as of now, in particular the 3 important clauses, which are the basic qualifications * be an Indian, * Aged above 25, * Be a member of one of the House of Representatives. That is all. Is it not sounding funny to have such people as ministers. So, now, you are able start understanding what is "raama raajyam". amaathya anupadhaatheethaan pithru paithaamahaan sucheen | srEshtaan srEshtEshu kachchith thvam niyOjayasi karmasu || 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 26 amaathya: = minister anupadhaatheethaan = guileless, or fraudless, or terrorless pithrupaithaamahaan = father, grand father, and their elders sucheen = clean srEshtaan srEshtEshu = more excellent among excellent kachchith = few thvam niyOjayasi = you appoint karmasu = in the work meaning: hey bharathaa, are you appointing [or directing] such persons as ministers, who are guileless, fraudless, more excellent among excellent, clean persons, and have well established ancestry. EkO api amaathyO mEDhaavee soorO dakshO vichakshaNa: | raajaanan raajaputhram vaa praapayEn mahatheem shriyam || 24 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 24 EkO api = even one amaathya: = minister mEDhaavee = a learned one or a genius soora: = valiant daksha: = competent vichakshaNa: = wizard raajaanan raajaputhram vaa = to the kingdom, king or the prince praapayEn = will bring in or beget mahatheem shriyam = lot of wealth and good. meaning: Even if one minister is well learned or a genius, valiant and competent, he will bring in lot of prosperity / good to the prince, or king, than a number of fools around, as ministers. vyasane kachchidh aaDyasya dhurbalasya cha raaghava | artham viraagaa: pasyanthi thava amaathyaa bahusruthaa: || 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 58 kachchidh = some thava amaathyaa = your ministers pasyanthi = seeing vyasane = in the arguments between aaDyasya = wealthy dhurbalasya cha = poor people also raaghava = one who hails from the raghu dynasty artham = money or wealth viraagaa: = without passion bahusruthaa: = well heard, also well versed in saasthraas. meaning: hey bharathaa, one who hails from raghu dynasty, are you seeing [or checking] that some of your ministers are well versed in administration are listening to both sides in arguments between wealthy and poor impartially and dispassionately. Point: see a point of advice to the prince. That a check to be done by the king on his ministers. Both are combined and presented. The subtleties are something beautiful here. manthrO vijayamoolam hi raajnaam bhavathi raaghava | susamvruthO manthri Dhurair amaathyai: saasthra kovidhai: ||16 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 16 manthra: = secrets raajnaam = for the kingdom vijayamoolam hi = the success formulae bhavathi = attains or gives or happens or is raaghava = one who hails from the raghu dynasty susamvrutha: = well concealed manthri Dhurair = well analysed amaathyai: = by the ministers saasthra kovidhai: = wizards of saasthraas meaning: hey bharathaa, one who hails from the raghu dynasty, well analysed decisions taken after consultations by the ministers who are well versed in saasthraas, are the formulae for the success of the kingdom. Are these decisions kept secret till their stages of implementation. Point: See here how decisions are to be taken. It is not a one man's decision, neither just taken without proper analysis. Also the decisions are to be well concealed and kept secret till its readiness for implementation. For, otherwise, the decision taken may well be resisted by concerned, as happening nowadays, because of leakage of such information. Further there is also a point implied, - hey, are you checking that your ministers are not leaking certain confidential decisions taken by you and your council of ministers. . These are about the ministers. Let us see about the king himself in next post. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Enjoyed the discourse very much. Please keep it coming! Dhasan, Suresh (and Shantha) Kumar Atlanta USA"M.G.Vasudevan" wrote: Post 4Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer,Continuing the topic of "good governance- raamaa's style", we saw in post 3, what was king dhasarathhaa's organisation structure in governing his state, the cabinet [consisting of 8 ministers] and a super cabinet [8 rishis advicing king without getting directly involved in day to day administration, but effectively putting a check to king when required]. Also we saw the ministers were* Tactful* Adroit* Always obliging* Efficient in administration* Welfare of the kingdom was the top point always in their agenda* Nothing was happening in their country and neighbouring country unknown to themWe could not see in this sargam [baala kaaNdam sargam] how these ministers were appointed or what kind of persons were selected by the king to be his ministers.For knowing that, perhaps, we have to move on to the kachchith sargam in ayOdhyaa kaaNdam. Sri raamaa asks bharatha on each step on these points how he has selected his ministers. Actually perhaps raama may not want to check such minute points, for, he knew what kind of people bharatha has inherited as prince. Sri vaalmeeki wants us, the later day mortals, to know what kind of persons, we must have as ministers, by reading his work. Further on the functioning of these ministers, also raamaa asks questions to his brother - have you checked these persons on ------ during the tenure as ministers.kachchid aathma samaa: sooraa: sruthavanthO jithEndhriyaa: | kuleenaascha ingithajnaascha kruthaasthE thaatha manthriNa: || 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 15thaatha = my dear bharatha - my father [actually thaatha means father - since here it is addressed to raamaa's younger brother in love and affection it is to betaken as my dear]kachchidh = fewaathma samaa: = who understand the king thoroughly and act accordingly sooraa: = valiantsruthavantha: = having sound knowledge of vEdhaas and saasthraasjithEndhriyaa: = who have well controlled senseskuleenaa: cha = hailing from well established familiesingithajnaa: cha = well intentioned people, who can understand the mind of king, [or prince] and act accordinglymanthriNa: = ministerskruthaasthE = made meaning: Oh my dear bharathaa, have you made persons who possess following as ministers* who can understand the king closely and his mind, * valiant, * having sound knowledge of vEdhaas and saasthraas, * who have controlled their senses, * hailing from good families, * well intentioned Point: See how many qualifications a person must have to become a minister in a monarchy. Compare it with a democracy. It spells on qualities of ministers, what we have in a democracy as of now, in particular the 3 important clauses, which are the basic qualifications * be an Indian, * Aged above 25, * Be a member of one of the House of Representatives. That is all. Is it not sounding funny to have such people as ministers. So, now, you are able start understanding what is "raama raajyam". amaathya anupadhaatheethaan pithru paithaamahaan sucheen | srEshtaan srEshtEshu kachchith thvam niyOjayasi karmasu || 100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 26amaathya: = ministeranupadhaatheethaan = guileless, or fraudless, or terrorlesspithrupaithaamahaan = father, grand father, and their elderssucheen = cleansrEshtaan srEshtEshu = more excellent among excellentkachchith = fewthvam niyOjayasi = you appointkarmasu = in the workmeaning: hey bharathaa, are you appointing [or directing] such persons as ministers, who are guileless, fraudless, more excellent among excellent, clean persons, and have well established ancestry. EkO api amaathyO mEDhaavee soorO dakshO vichakshaNa: | raajaanan raajaputhram vaa praapayEn mahatheem shriyam || 24100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 24EkO api = even oneamaathya: = minister mEDhaavee = a learned one or a geniussoora: = valiantdaksha: = competentvichakshaNa: = wizardraajaanan raajaputhram vaa = to the kingdom, king or the princepraapayEn = will bring in or begetmahatheem shriyam = lot of wealth and good.meaning: Even if one minister is well learned or a genius, valiant and competent, he will bring in lot of prosperity / good to the prince, or king, than a number of fools around, as ministers. vyasane kachchidh aaDyasya dhurbalasya cha raaghava |artham viraagaa: pasyanthi thava amaathyaa bahusruthaa: ||100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 58kachchidh = somethava amaathyaa = your ministerspasyanthi = seeingvyasane = in the arguments betweenaaDyasya = wealthydhurbalasya cha = poor people alsoraaghava = one who hails from the raghu dynastyartham = money or wealthviraagaa: = without passion bahusruthaa: = well heard, also well versed in saasthraas.meaning: hey bharathaa, one who hails from raghu dynasty, are you seeing [or checking] that some of your ministers are well versed in administration are listening to both sides in arguments between wealthy and poor impartially and dispassionately. Point: see a point of advice to the prince. That a check to be done by the king on his ministers. Both are combined and presented. The subtleties are something beautiful here.manthrO vijayamoolam hi raajnaam bhavathi raaghava | susamvruthO manthri Dhurair amaathyai: saasthra kovidhai: ||16100th sargam ayodhyaa kaaNdam - slOkam 16manthra: = secretsraajnaam = for the kingdomvijayamoolam hi = the success formulaebhavathi = attains or gives or happens or israaghava = one who hails from the raghu dynastysusamvrutha: = well concealedmanthri Dhurair = well analysed amaathyai: = by the ministerssaasthra kovidhai: = wizards of saasthraasmeaning: hey bharathaa, one who hails from the raghu dynasty, well analysed decisions taken after consultations by the ministers who are well versed in saasthraas, are the formulae for the success of the kingdom. Are these decisions kept secret till their stages of implementation. Point: See here how decisions are to be taken. It is not a one man's decision, neither just taken without proper analysis. Also the decisions are to be well concealed and kept secret till its readiness for implementation. For, otherwise, the decision taken may well be resisted by concerned, as happening nowadays, because of leakage of such information. Further there is also a point implied, - hey, are you checking that your ministers are not leaking certain confidential decisions taken by you and your council of ministers. . These are about the ministers. Let us see about the king himself in next post.DhasanVasudevan m.g.To from this group, send an email to:OppiliappanYour use of Groups is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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