[t'venkatam] A question on 'Ethics' from a student in Berkeley University

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

>

> A collegue of mine at office has a son, Aniruddh,

> studying at

> Berkeley University, USA. Aniruddh last week sent

> his father via e-

> mail a question about Ethics in Greek and Indian

> philosophy. His

> father asked me to help him send Aniruddh a proper

> answer. I did

> manage to draft a response which has since been sent

> to Berkeley.

>

> Since the subject is of interest to everyone I

> thought it would be

> appropriate to share it on T'venkatam List also. I

> wonder what

> members would comment.

>

> The question was as follows:

>

> QUOTE

>

> -

> <anirudhvAnirudh

> Vemprala

> <kannaKanna Vemprala

> Sunday, October 19, 2003 10:51 AM

> Re: Re:

>

> i remember that many-a-time you quote telugu quotes

> which involve

> characters of the great epics (or sometimes things

> from nature -

> involving animals or something) - remember?

> u told me that your dad used to say

> somethingsomethinsomething in

> telugu and then u'd translate it for me and then

> tell me what it

> meant. i was just wondering: what role did that play

> (quotes

> pertaining/related or from the epics) in describing

> things like

> ethics and moral principles, in your childhood?

>

> my prof says that the hindu philosophy doens't have

> a "system of

> ethics" like the greeks did. i felt this was wrong,

> but i didn't

> challenge him cuz i dont know much of Platonic

> system of ethics & the

> related.

> i told him that i didn't agree since a lot of the

> stuff in the gita

> has "ethical" discussions like when arjuna didn't

> want to kill his

> own brothers, krishna has to convince him that it

> was alright. but he

> said that differed greatly from the greek idea. but

> hmm.. he might

> have had a point since he said "system of ethics".

> but i duno..

>

> any comments?

>

> @ni-cat

>

> <<<<UNQUOTE

>

> Now my answer to the above was as follows and as it

> was transmitted

> by my office colleague to his son in Berkeley:

>

> QUOTE

>

> Dear Kanna,

>

> Another good question your son has posed to you and

> I'm not surprised

> he's got you stumped! I think you should temporarily

> throw all office

> work aside and instead take a crash-course on Indian

> religion,

> philosophy and history! Otherwise I think Aniruddh

> is going to shame

> you more and more as the days go along!!

>

> I don't know what exactly Aniruddh's teacher is

> telling him about

> Greek "system of ethics" but I suspect it is to do

> with the Platonic

> insistence that Ethics and Morals can be a subject

> of inquiry quite

> independent of the subject of religion. The ancient

> Greeks believed

> that human ethics/morality can be derived without

> reference to any

> religious/philosophical/theological underpinning.

> According to Plato,

> a "system of ethics" can be founded purely on

> Rationality. It was

> believed that Man's Reason or Reasonability alone

> can teach him what

> is good conduct, fair behaviour and how to create

> the ideal society.

> The argument was -- you do not need Religion or any

> theistic belief-

> system to tell you what is good morals or ethics.

> For e.g. Honesty is

> a good ethical standard for humans to abide by. Our

> Reason alone

> gives us many reasons why Honesty is such a

> desirable social

> practice amongst members of a society. We do not

> require religious

> authority to tell us that Honesty is indeed a

> virtue.

>

> At the core of the Platonic system of ethics, hence,

> is the belief

> that the Reasonable Man is also an Ethical Man.

>

> The Indian view of ethics/morality is no less a

> "system of thought"

> than the Platonic one but it is not so clearly

> distinct or so

> completely divorced from religious thought as the

> Greek system is.

> That is because we Indians derive our ethics not

> only from Reason but

> from a much higher basis viz. a theistic outook in

> life.

>

> We believe that Reason is an essential but not

> sufficient basis for a

> system of ethics. Reason, after all, is only one of

> Man's many

> wonderful but nonetheless frail faculties. Our

> faculties often fail

> us. And sometimes our self-interest is so powerful

> that we are driven

> to act in ways that would be utterly un-reasonable

> but yet perfectly

> acceptable to us. Often, we will come up with

> elegant moral

> justifications for the most unreasonable deed of

> ours as long as our

> self-interest is well served. M.K.Gandhi put it very

> beautifully:

>

> "Satan mostly employs comparatively moral

> instruments and the

> language of ethics to give his aims an air of

> respectability."

>

> The Indian (or Hindu) system of ethics is

> inseparable from religious

> thought and feelings. Central to this ethical system

> is the concept

> of "dharma" -- Righteousness. This Righteousness is

> a universal

> concept. Dharma is a very profound and powerful idea

> that is founded

> in ancient Vedantic thought. It is the central

> subject of the

> Bhagavath-gita. 'Dharma' forms a much more

> comprehensive and holistic

> basis on which rests not only the entire gamut of

> social ethics,

> polity and government but also individual morality,

> relationships

> and responsibilty.

>

> We believe this "Dharma" is the Voice of God ('Vox

> Dei') as echoed in

> the eternal strains of the Vedic "sruti". For us

> Indians, an ethical

> value must not only be reasonable but also transcend

> time, space and

> circumstance. Where else but in divine revelation

> can such a lofty

> ethical system be found? Another name for our Vedic

> religion

> is "sanAtana dharma" -- 'sanAtana' means eternal,

> universal;

> and "dharma" means Law, Ethics or Principle. Our

> 'dhArmic system of

> ethics' is thus one founded on the first-principles

> of life, nature,

> of creation and the cosmos. It is founded on a

> natural order that is

> far higher than and quite independent of the human

> condition, affairs

> or preference.

>

> This is the reason why the Indian Vedic system of

> "dharmic" ethics is

> more profound than the wholly Reason-centric

> Platonic one. Once

> again, no one could have said it all better than

> Mahatma Gandhi who

>

=== message truncated ===

 

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

Go to http://.shaadi.com

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

>

> A collegue of mine at office has a son, Aniruddh,

> studying at

> Berkeley University, USA. Aniruddh last week sent

> his father via e-

> mail a question about Ethics in Greek and Indian

> philosophy. His

> father asked me to help him send Aniruddh a proper

> answer. I did

> manage to draft a response which has since been sent

> to Berkeley.

>

> Since the subject is of interest to everyone I

> thought it would be

> appropriate to share it on T'venkatam List also. I

> wonder what

> members would comment.

>

> The question was as follows:

>

> QUOTE

>

> -

> <anirudhvAnirudh

> Vemprala

> <kannaKanna Vemprala

> Sunday, October 19, 2003 10:51 AM

> Re: Re:

>

> i remember that many-a-time you quote telugu quotes

> which involve

> characters of the great epics (or sometimes things

> from nature -

> involving animals or something) - remember?

> u told me that your dad used to say

> somethingsomethinsomething in

> telugu and then u'd translate it for me and then

> tell me what it

> meant. i was just wondering: what role did that play

> (quotes

> pertaining/related or from the epics) in describing

> things like

> ethics and moral principles, in your childhood?

>

> my prof says that the hindu philosophy doens't have

> a "system of

> ethics" like the greeks did. i felt this was wrong,

> but i didn't

> challenge him cuz i dont know much of Platonic

> system of ethics & the

> related.

> i told him that i didn't agree since a lot of the

> stuff in the gita

> has "ethical" discussions like when arjuna didn't

> want to kill his

> own brothers, krishna has to convince him that it

> was alright. but he

> said that differed greatly from the greek idea. but

> hmm.. he might

> have had a point since he said "system of ethics".

> but i duno..

>

> any comments?

>

> @ni-cat

>

> <<<<UNQUOTE

>

> Now my answer to the above was as follows and as it

> was transmitted

> by my office colleague to his son in Berkeley:

>

> QUOTE

>

> Dear Kanna,

>

> Another good question your son has posed to you and

> I'm not surprised

> he's got you stumped! I think you should temporarily

> throw all office

> work aside and instead take a crash-course on Indian

> religion,

> philosophy and history! Otherwise I think Aniruddh

> is going to shame

> you more and more as the days go along!!

>

> I don't know what exactly Aniruddh's teacher is

> telling him about

> Greek "system of ethics" but I suspect it is to do

> with the Platonic

> insistence that Ethics and Morals can be a subject

> of inquiry quite

> independent of the subject of religion. The ancient

> Greeks believed

> that human ethics/morality can be derived without

> reference to any

> religious/philosophical/theological underpinning.

> According to Plato,

> a "system of ethics" can be founded purely on

> Rationality. It was

> believed that Man's Reason or Reasonability alone

> can teach him what

> is good conduct, fair behaviour and how to create

> the ideal society.

> The argument was -- you do not need Religion or any

> theistic belief-

> system to tell you what is good morals or ethics.

> For e.g. Honesty is

> a good ethical standard for humans to abide by. Our

> Reason alone

> gives us many reasons why Honesty is such a

> desirable social

> practice amongst members of a society. We do not

> require religious

> authority to tell us that Honesty is indeed a

> virtue.

>

> At the core of the Platonic system of ethics, hence,

> is the belief

> that the Reasonable Man is also an Ethical Man.

>

> The Indian view of ethics/morality is no less a

> "system of thought"

> than the Platonic one but it is not so clearly

> distinct or so

> completely divorced from religious thought as the

> Greek system is.

> That is because we Indians derive our ethics not

> only from Reason but

> from a much higher basis viz. a theistic outook in

> life.

>

> We believe that Reason is an essential but not

> sufficient basis for a

> system of ethics. Reason, after all, is only one of

> Man's many

> wonderful but nonetheless frail faculties. Our

> faculties often fail

> us. And sometimes our self-interest is so powerful

> that we are driven

> to act in ways that would be utterly un-reasonable

> but yet perfectly

> acceptable to us. Often, we will come up with

> elegant moral

> justifications for the most unreasonable deed of

> ours as long as our

> self-interest is well served. M.K.Gandhi put it very

> beautifully:

>

> "Satan mostly employs comparatively moral

> instruments and the

> language of ethics to give his aims an air of

> respectability."

>

> The Indian (or Hindu) system of ethics is

> inseparable from religious

> thought and feelings. Central to this ethical system

> is the concept

> of "dharma" -- Righteousness. This Righteousness is

> a universal

> concept. Dharma is a very profound and powerful idea

> that is founded

> in ancient Vedantic thought. It is the central

> subject of the

> Bhagavath-gita. 'Dharma' forms a much more

> comprehensive and holistic

> basis on which rests not only the entire gamut of

> social ethics,

> polity and government but also individual morality,

> relationships

> and responsibilty.

>

> We believe this "Dharma" is the Voice of God ('Vox

> Dei') as echoed in

> the eternal strains of the Vedic "sruti". For us

> Indians, an ethical

> value must not only be reasonable but also transcend

> time, space and

> circumstance. Where else but in divine revelation

> can such a lofty

> ethical system be found? Another name for our Vedic

> religion

> is "sanAtana dharma" -- 'sanAtana' means eternal,

> universal;

> and "dharma" means Law, Ethics or Principle. Our

> 'dhArmic system of

> ethics' is thus one founded on the first-principles

> of life, nature,

> of creation and the cosmos. It is founded on a

> natural order that is

> far higher than and quite independent of the human

> condition, affairs

> or preference.

>

> This is the reason why the Indian Vedic system of

> "dharmic" ethics is

> more profound than the wholly Reason-centric

> Platonic one. Once

> again, no one could have said it all better than

> Mahatma Gandhi who

>

=== message truncated ===

 

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

Go to http://.shaadi.com