Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Shri Sadagopan, Ramanujar Thiruvadigale Saranam Dear bhagavatas Pranams. Once again apologise this idiot(ag-gyani). Before my father had left this world, for parama-padam, He had lit up the stubbornness of (ananya) bhakthi to our Almighty. (Our family tradition of stubbornness) Vaasaga dosham santhavyaha …. Please Don’t get upset… Place : Bayview Ave Richmond hill,Toronto I used to go to a hindu temple built by srilankans in Richmond hill (Temple Notes: All the hindu gods(M/F) are kept at random without any discretion !!! ) illuminated with 25000 Watts bulbs like wal-mart. I also see a sculpture ,irking my eyes always, every time , I see that pillar where a sculpture depicts like this. It has brahma , in the form of holy-Swan flying up …. and our almighty In the form of Boar trying to go down and in the center of which Shiva is there. They try to depict a story that Our beloved almighty and Brahma tried to find the origin of Shiva one trying to see his head and the other tail. (Where in the Vedas they found this rubbishness ?) What is your word on this ? It is totally contradicting entire Thiruvaaimozhi ? Our Kaarimaaran in his punching words (Ref 4.10.X ) : (Naadi neer vanangum deivamum ummaiyum mun padaithaan ,Odi Odi palapirappum piranthu marroru theivam paadiyaadi paninthu…. ) , Also …. In the same centum it goes like “Kapaala nan-mokkathukku kandu konmin..” Also in reference 1.2.X, Onrenap palavena yaavarum vadivinul ninra Nanrelil naranan naanmugan Aran Yennum …. Yemmaiyum Yel-ualagaiyum ninnulley thorriya KALVAA Kaliyan says : Kaanilum urupolaar, sevik-innatha keerthiyaar. Of the Rudraas ,, I am sambhu. - Geeta Adiyaen’s Feeling #2 : - Our Vishnu sahasranaamam goes like this “Skanda – Skanda thara duryo varado ….” When I was a child(boy) with 100% ignorance and lived with ego in this ego-centric world[until recently], I remember I used watch movies in the street (big- dhoti like screen ,with a old projectors after 8 P.M ) . The movie goes like this -> our almighty comes to Mr Lord Murugan(Kutty vaandu , Siruvan ) and because our almighty ,Indra and other Devaas requested this kutty vaandu (Lord Murugan) he went on a war with Soorapadman… (similarly for Vinayaka movies too). I have some slokas engraved in my heart, (man-manaa bhava mad-bhakato, mad-karma Krit…) so it is very unlikely that my feeling will get eroded !!! Please tell me a word or two so that I can console myself. I am not here to advise them Yelleerum Veedu petraal Ulagillai-andrey …..4.10.X ( so I can gently smile to those people ) Adiyaen Sadagopan Daasan. Post your free ad now! Canada Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 SrI: Dear SrI Balaji Sundararajan : Your moving mail touched me. There is nothing to apologize or consloe . What you saw at the temple is the LingOthbhavar sculpture , which is usually present in Siva Temples in the West wall of Garbhagraham . This relates to an incident described in Siva PurANam and repeately celebrated in the ThevAram verses of NaayanmArs , who worshipped Siva as their Supreme Lord . It is their tradition . Overseas Sri Lankans , whose community spirit is strong , have built a lot of temples to suit their cultural spiritual needs .Their special Gods are Lord Siva , who is the leader among VishNu BhakthAs and who has performed Prapatthi (Self-Surrender ) to SrIman NaarAyaNan ( Sri Mantra Raaja Padha SthOthram) and KumAra Swamy ( Skandhan/Murughan) . They come from the Kadir Kaamam Temple tradition ( Murugan Temple tradition ) , where they worship Murughan as JyOthi . This is their tradition . Please remember that they came from the villages of Tamil Nadu few hundred years ago during the height of exploitative British Colonial rule , when the British ruling class lured them to the island on false promises to work in Tea Gardens and denied them the return to their nome land . The conflict between the Tamil culture in a land known for Buddhist culture ( From Emperor AsOkAs' time) and its reverberations are still going on in Sri Lanka . The expatriate Tamilian Srilankans are known for their exquisite Tamil and Saiva and KoumAra aagamams that guide their temple worship procedures . For VaishNavAs , Dhivya Prabhandhams are the Tamil Vedams and the two VaishNavite Aagamaas ( PaancharAthram and VikhAnasam) are their anchors . Each one is entitled to their way of worship based on the PurushArTams that they seek . All aasthikAs share the eternal VedAs and Upanishads although their intrepretations are different . We as VaishNavAs follow Bhagavath RaamAnujA's darsanam ancjored in Ubhaya VedAntham . For VaishNavAs in general and for those who have performed SaraNAgathy at the feet of a SadAchAryan ( Prapannan ) in particular , the Supermacy of SrIman NaarAyaNan as the one and only Para Devathai to grant Moksham is a core siddhAntham . Parathvam of SrIman NaarAyaNan and freedom from BhAgavatha apachAram are central to have their Prapatthi fulfilled . There are many things in the world that we can not waste our time in straightening out . As PrapannAs , who have chosen Sriman NaarAyaNan as Moksha Daayaka Mukundan , anya devathA worship is forbidden . One follows the dharmam of Pathivrathai and follows an undeviating course of MahA Viswaasam in SrIMan NaarAyaNan to gain MOksha Siddhi. If one is NOT interested in MOksham in this janmam itself as the final release from all our Paapams and PuNyams , then one follows other routes . Bhagavath GithA slOkam that you quoted is very appropriate in this context . The Charama slOkams of the Lord during Raama , KrishNa and VarAha avathArams are the guiding beacons to find our way in the engulfing SamsAric darkness to Lord's Supreme abode and to serve the dhivya dampathis there and enjoy ParipoorNa BrhmAnandham . This is Parama PurushArTam . That is all there is to it for VaishNavAs ! We have to lead a life of utter respect for others without compromising an iota from the core principles that our AchAryAs have blessed us with . There is no time left in this short life of ours to get distracted by distractions of any kind away from the central path shown by our far seeing AchAryAs , who have strived for our spiritual well being . Following the path prepared by our SadAchAryans and serving them to our utmost is the one and only way for our liberation from the SamsAric sufferings ! NaarAyaNa , NaarAyaNa , NaarAyaNa ! Oppiliappan KOil Varadachari Sadagopan - Balaji Sundarrajan Oppiliappan Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:08 AM Console me if possible (& apologise me if it hurts you !!) Shri: Shri Sadagopan, Ramanujar Thiruvadigale Saranam Dear bhagavatas Pranams. Once again apologise this idiot(ag-gyani). Before my father had left this world, for parama-padam, He had lit up the stubbornness of (ananya) bhakthi to our Almighty. (Our family tradition of stubbornness) Vaasaga dosham santhavyaha …. Please Don’t get upset… Place : Bayview Ave Richmond hill,Toronto I used to go to a hindu temple built by srilankans in Richmond hill (Temple Notes: All the hindu gods(M/F) are kept at random without any discretion !!! ) illuminated with 25000 Watts bulbs like wal-mart. I also see a sculpture ,irking my eyes always, every time , I see that pillar where a sculpture depicts like this. It has brahma , in the form of holy-Swan flying up …. and our almighty In the form of Boar trying to go down and in the center of which Shiva is there. They try to depict a story that Our beloved almighty and Brahma tried to find the origin of Shiva one trying to see his head and the other tail. (Where in the Vedas they found this rubbishness ?) What is your word on this ? It is totally contradicting entire Thiruvaaimozhi ? Our Kaarimaaran in his punching words (Ref 4.10.X ) : (Naadi neer vanangum deivamum ummaiyum mun padaithaan ,Odi Odi palapirappum piranthu marroru theivam paadiyaadi paninthu…. ) , Also …. In the same centum it goes like “Kapaala nan-mokkathukku kandu konmin..” Also in reference 1.2.X, Onrenap palavena yaavarum vadivinul ninra Nanrelil naranan naanmugan Aran Yennum …. Yemmaiyum Yel-ualagaiyum ninnulley thorriya KALVAA Kaliyan says : Kaanilum urupolaar, sevik-innatha keerthiyaar. Of the Rudraas ,, I am sambhu. - Geeta Adiyaen’s Feeling #2 : - Our Vishnu sahasranaamam goes like this “Skanda – Skanda thara duryo varado ….” When I was a child(boy) with 100% ignorance and lived with ego in this ego-centric world[until recently], I remember I used watch movies in the street (big- dhoti like screen ,with a old projectors after 8 P.M ) . The movie goes like this -> our almighty comes to Mr Lord Murugan(Kutty vaandu , Siruvan ) and because our almighty ,Indra and other Devaas requested this kutty vaandu (Lord Murugan) he went on a war with Soorapadman… (similarly for Vinayaka movies too). I have some slokas engraved in my heart, (man-manaa bhava mad-bhakato, mad-karma Krit…) so it is very unlikely that my feeling will get eroded !!! Please tell me a word or two so that I can console myself. I am not here to advise them Yelleerum Veedu petraal Ulagillai-andrey …..4.10.X ( so I can gently smile to those people ) Adiyaen Sadagopan Daasan. Post your free ad now! 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Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I recently realized that among the purANa-s, the tAmasic purANa-s give a different version of every purANic incident that we know of, which is different from the version we get in the sAttvik purANa-s that we follow. The sculpture you saw must correspond to a version in one of the tAmasic purANa-s. My understanding is that bhagavAn created the tAmasic purANa-s simultaneously with the sAttvic purANa-s as part of His leelA, to provide a way to divert the non-believers. I concur with SrImAn Sadagopan that we follow our AcArya-s as the best use of our time. The tAmasic purANa-s have as their main objective, the praise of Siva as the supreme deity etc. -KrishnamachariSadagopan <sgopan (AT) computer (DOT) net> wrote: SrI: Dear SrI Balaji Sundararajan : Your moving mail touched me. There is nothing to apologize or consloe . What you saw at the temple is the LingOthbhavar sculpture , which is usually present in Siva Temples in the West wall of Garbhagraham . This relates to an incident described in Siva PurANam and repeately celebrated in the ThevAram verses of NaayanmArs , who worshipped Siva as their Supreme Lord . It is their tradition . Overseas Sri Lankans , whose community spirit is strong , have built a lot of temples to suit their cultural spiritual needs .Their special Gods are Lord Siva , who is the leader among VishNu BhakthAs and who has performed Prapatthi (Self-Surrender ) to SrIman NaarAyaNan ( Sri Mantra Raaja Padha SthOthram) and KumAra Swamy ( Skandhan/Murughan) . They come from the Kadir Kaamam Temple tradition ( Murugan Temple tradition ) , where they worship Murughan as JyOthi . This is their tradition . Please remember that they came from the villages of Tamil Nadu few hundred years ago during the height of exploitative British Colonial rule , when the British ruling class lured them to the island on false promises to work in Tea Gardens and denied them the return to their nome land . The conflict between the Tamil culture in a land known for Buddhist culture ( From Emperor AsOkAs' time) and its reverberations are still going on in Sri Lanka . The expatriate Tamilian Srilankans are known for their exquisite Tamil and Saiva and KoumAra aagamams that guide their temple worship procedures . For VaishNavAs , Dhivya Prabhandhams are the Tamil Vedams and the two VaishNavite Aagamaas ( PaancharAthram and VikhAnasam) are their anchors . Each one is entitled to their way of worship based on the PurushArTams that they seek . All aasthikAs share the eternal VedAs and Upanishads although their intrepretations are different . We as VaishNavAs follow Bhagavath RaamAnujA's darsanam ancjored in Ubhaya VedAntham . For VaishNavAs in general and for those who have performed SaraNAgathy at the feet of a SadAchAryan ( Prapannan ) in particular , the Supermacy of SrIman NaarAyaNan as the one and only Para Devathai to grant Moksham is a core siddhAntham . Parathvam of SrIman NaarAyaNan and freedom from BhAgavatha apachAram are central to have their Prapatthi fulfilled . There are many things in the world that we can not waste our time in straightening out . As PrapannAs , who have chosen Sriman NaarAyaNan as Moksha Daayaka Mukundan , anya devathA worship is forbidden . One follows the dharmam of Pathivrathai and follows an undeviating course of MahA Viswaasam in SrIMan NaarAyaNan to gain MOksha Siddhi. If one is NOT interested in MOksham in this janmam itself as the final release from all our Paapams and PuNyams , then one follows other routes . Bhagavath GithA slOkam that you quoted is very appropriate in this context . The Charama slOkams of the Lord during Raama , KrishNa and VarAha avathArams are the guiding beacons to find our way in the engulfing SamsAric darkness to Lord's Supreme abode and to serve the dhivya dampathis there and enjoy ParipoorNa BrhmAnandham . This is Parama PurushArTam . That is all there is to it for VaishNavAs ! We have to lead a life of utter respect for others without compromising an iota from the core principles that our AchAryAs have blessed us with . There is no time left in this short life of ours to get distracted by distractions of any kind away from the central path shown by our far seeing AchAryAs , who have strived for our spiritual well being . Following the path prepared by our SadAchAryans and serving them to our utmost is the one and only way for our liberation from the SamsAric sufferings ! NaarAyaNa , NaarAyaNa , NaarAyaNa ! Oppiliappan KOil Varadachari Sadagopan - Balaji Sundarrajan Oppiliappan Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:08 AM Console me if possible (& apologise me if it hurts you !!) Shri: Shri Sadagopan, Ramanujar Thiruvadigale Saranam Dear bhagavatas Pranams. Once again apologise this idiot(ag-gyani). Before my father had left this world, for parama-padam, He had lit up the stubbornness of (ananya) bhakthi to our Almighty. (Our family tradition of stubbornness) Vaasaga dosham santhavyaha …. Please Don’t get upset… Place : Bayview Ave Richmond hill,Toronto I used to go to a hindu temple built by srilankans in Richmond hill (Temple Notes: All the hindu gods(M/F) are kept at random without any discretion !!! ) illuminated with 25000 Watts bulbs like wal-mart. I also see a sculpture ,irking my eyes always, every time , I see that pillar where a sculpture depicts like this. It has brahma , in the form of holy-Swan flying up …. and our almighty In the form of Boar trying to go down and in the center of which Shiva is there. They try to depict a story that Our beloved almighty and Brahma tried to find the origin of Shiva one trying to see his head and the other tail. (Where in the Vedas they found this rubbishness ?) What is your word on this ? It is totally contradicting entire Thiruvaaimozhi ? Our Kaarimaaran in his punching words (Ref 4.10.X ) : (Naadi neer vanangum deivamum ummaiyum mun padaithaan ,Odi Odi palapirappum piranthu marroru theivam paadiyaadi paninthu…. ) , Also …. In the same centum it goes like “Kapaala nan-mokkathukku kandu konmin..” Also in reference 1.2.X, Onrenap palavena yaavarum vadivinul ninra Nanrelil naranan naanmugan Aran Yennum …. Yemmaiyum Yel-ualagaiyum ninnulley thorriya KALVAA Kaliyan says : Kaanilum urupolaar, sevik-innatha keerthiyaar. Of the Rudraas ,, I am sambhu. - Geeta Adiyaen’s Feeling #2 : - Our Vishnu sahasranaamam goes like this “Skanda – Skanda thara duryo varado ….” When I was a child(boy) with 100% ignorance and lived with ego in this ego-centric world[until recently], I remember I used watch movies in the street (big- dhoti like screen ,with a old projectors after 8 P.M ) . The movie goes like this -> our almighty comes to Mr Lord Murugan(Kutty vaandu , Siruvan ) and because our almighty ,Indra and other Devaas requested this kutty vaandu (Lord Murugan) he went on a war with Soorapadman… (similarly for Vinayaka movies too). I have some slokas engraved in my heart, (man-manaa bhava mad-bhakato, mad-karma Krit…) so it is very unlikely that my feeling will get eroded !!! Please tell me a word or two so that I can console myself. I am not here to advise them Yelleerum Veedu petraal Ulagillai-andrey …..4.10.X ( so I can gently smile to those people ) Adiyaen Sadagopan Daasan. Post your free ad now! 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Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Shri Kaarimaaran( Thunai) Thiruvadikale Saranam Dear Sadagopan(kaarimaaran) Swamin Pranams. Read your mail. it has very deep thought and nice approach Wonderful explanations. !!! One has to be blessed to be in your mental state !!! (hope i will get to that state) Adiyaen - Kaarimaaran Daasan "Yaanotti ennul vanthu iruthuvam endrilaen Thanotti vanthu en Thani Nenjai Vanjitthu Oonotti Ninru Uyirimil Ninri Iyal Vaanottumo " - Thiru vaai mozhi Sadagopan <sgopan (AT) computer (DOT) net> wrote: SrI: Dear SrI Balaji Sundararajan : Your moving mail touched me. There is nothing to apologize or consloe . What you saw at the temple is the LingOthbhavar sculpture , which is usually present in Siva Temples in the West wall of Garbhagraham . This relates to an incident described in Siva PurANam and repeately celebrated in the ThevAram verses of NaayanmArs , who worshipped Siva as their Supreme Lord . It is their tradition . Overseas Sri Lankans , whose community spirit is strong , have built a lot of temples to suit their cultural spiritual needs .Their special Gods are Lord Siva , who is the leader among VishNu BhakthAs and who has performed Prapatthi (Self-Surrender ) to SrIman NaarAyaNan ( Sri Mantra Raaja Padha SthOthram) and KumAra Swamy ( Skandhan/Murughan) . They come from the Kadir Kaamam Temple tradition ( Murugan Temple tradition ) , where they worship Murughan as JyOthi . This is their tradition . Please remember that they came from the villages of Tamil Nadu few hundred years ago during the height of exploitative British Colonial rule , when the British ruling class lured them to the island on false promises to work in Tea Gardens and denied them the return to their nome land . The conflict between the Tamil culture in a land known for Buddhist culture ( From Emperor AsOkAs' time) and its reverberations are still going on in Sri Lanka . The expatriate Tamilian Srilankans are known for their exquisite Tamil and Saiva and KoumAra aagamams that guide their temple worship procedures . For VaishNavAs , Dhivya Prabhandhams are the Tamil Vedams and the two VaishNavite Aagamaas ( PaancharAthram and VikhAnasam) are their anchors . Each one is entitled to their way of worship based on the PurushArTams that they seek . All aasthikAs share the eternal VedAs and Upanishads although their intrepretations are different . We as VaishNavAs follow Bhagavath RaamAnujA's darsanam ancjored in Ubhaya VedAntham . For VaishNavAs in general and for those who have performed SaraNAgathy at the feet of a SadAchAryan ( Prapannan ) in particular , the Supermacy of SrIman NaarAyaNan as the one and only Para Devathai to grant Moksham is a core siddhAntham . Parathvam of SrIman NaarAyaNan and freedom from BhAgavatha apachAram are central to have their Prapatthi fulfilled . There are many things in the world that we can not waste our time in straightening out . As PrapannAs , who have chosen Sriman NaarAyaNan as Moksha Daayaka Mukundan , anya devathA worship is forbidden . One follows the dharmam of Pathivrathai and follows an undeviating course of MahA Viswaasam in SrIMan NaarAyaNan to gain MOksha Siddhi. If one is NOT interested in MOksham in this janmam itself as the final release from all our Paapams and PuNyams , then one follows other routes . Bhagavath GithA slOkam that you quoted is very appropriate in this context . The Charama slOkams of the Lord during Raama , KrishNa and VarAha avathArams are the guiding beacons to find our way in the engulfing SamsAric darkness to Lord's Supreme abode and to serve the dhivya dampathis there and enjoy ParipoorNa BrhmAnandham . This is Parama PurushArTam . That is all there is to it for VaishNavAs ! We have to lead a life of utter respect for others without compromising an iota from the core principles that our AchAryAs have blessed us with . There is no time left in this short life of ours to get distracted by distractions of any kind away from the central path shown by our far seeing AchAryAs , who have strived for our spiritual well being . Following the path prepared by our SadAchAryans and serving them to our utmost is the one and only way for our liberation from the SamsAric sufferings ! NaarAyaNa , NaarAyaNa , NaarAyaNa ! Oppiliappan KOil Varadachari Sadagopan - Balaji Sundarrajan Oppiliappan Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:08 AM Console me if possible (& apologise me if it hurts you !!) Shri: Shri Sadagopan, Ramanujar Thiruvadigale Saranam Dear bhagavatas Pranams. Once again apologise this idiot(ag-gyani). Before my father had left this world, for parama-padam, He had lit up the stubbornness of (ananya) bhakthi to our Almighty. (Our family tradition of stubbornness) Vaasaga dosham santhavyaha …. Please Don’t get upset… Place : Bayview Ave Richmond hill,Toronto I used to go to a hindu temple built by srilankans in Richmond hill (Temple Notes: All the hindu gods(M/F) are kept at random without any discretion !!! ) illuminated with 25000 Watts bulbs like wal-mart. I also see a sculpture ,irking my eyes always, every time , I see that pillar where a sculpture depicts like this. It has brahma , in the form of holy-Swan flying up …. and our almighty In the form of Boar trying to go down and in the center of which Shiva is there. They try to depict a story that Our beloved almighty and Brahma tried to find the origin of Shiva one trying to see his head and the other tail. (Where in the Vedas they found this rubbishness ?) What is your word on this ? It is totally contradicting entire Thiruvaaimozhi ? Our Kaarimaaran in his punching words (Ref 4.10.X ) : (Naadi neer vanangum deivamum ummaiyum mun padaithaan ,Odi Odi palapirappum piranthu marroru theivam paadiyaadi paninthu…. ) , Also …. In the same centum it goes like “Kapaala nan-mokkathukku kandu konmin..” Also in reference 1.2.X, Onrenap palavena yaavarum vadivinul ninra Nanrelil naranan naanmugan Aran Yennum …. Yemmaiyum Yel-ualagaiyum ninnulley thorriya KALVAA Kaliyan says : Kaanilum urupolaar, sevik-innatha keerthiyaar. Of the Rudraas ,, I am sambhu. - Geeta Adiyaen’s Feeling #2 : - Our Vishnu sahasranaamam goes like this “Skanda – Skanda thara duryo varado ….” When I was a child(boy) with 100% ignorance and lived with ego in this ego-centric world[until recently], I remember I used watch movies in the street (big- dhoti like screen ,with a old projectors after 8 P.M ) . The movie goes like this -> our almighty comes to Mr Lord Murugan(Kutty vaandu , Siruvan ) and because our almighty ,Indra and other Devaas requested this kutty vaandu (Lord Murugan) he went on a war with Soorapadman… (similarly for Vinayaka movies too). I have some slokas engraved in my heart, (man-manaa bhava mad-bhakato, mad-karma Krit…) so it is very unlikely that my feeling will get eroded !!! Please tell me a word or two so that I can console myself. I am not here to advise them Yelleerum Veedu petraal Ulagillai-andrey …..4.10.X ( so I can gently smile to those people ) Adiyaen Sadagopan Daasan. Post your free ad now! Canada PersonalsPost your free ad now! Canada Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA, Respected Swami, Athpudam. Had the tremendous satisfaction of having seen the entire vruksham inside the seed. Jayasree saranathan Oppiliappan, Sadagopan <sgopan@c...> wrote: > SrI: > > Dear SrI Balaji Sundararajan : > > Your moving mail touched me. > There is nothing to apologize or consloe . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear Srimathi Jayasree Saranathan : Many thanks for your kind note . I appreciate it very much since it comes from a Bhakthai , who is conversant with the fine aspects of our Saasthrams and has an analytical mind . Please keep sharing your knowledge on the fine points in the unique style that you have been gifted with . Thanks again ! V.Sadagopan - "jayasartn" <jayasartn <Oppiliappan> Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:23 PM Re: Console me if possible (& apologise me if it hurts you !!) > SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA, > > Respected Swami, > > Athpudam. Had the tremendous satisfaction of having seen the entire > vruksham inside the seed. > > Jayasree saranathan > > > > Oppiliappan, Sadagopan <sgopan@c...> wrote: >> SrI: >> >> Dear SrI Balaji Sundararajan : >> >> Your moving mail touched me. >> There is nothing to apologize or consloe . >> > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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