Guest guest Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. “ Neer sollum. Neer vazhi nadatthum. You are one who did not discriminate on basis of caste, gender, or possessions. You have been exceedingly impartial to all. But how can our God be impartial to the seeker? In what way it makes a difference if the seeker has learnt to chant vedas or not? Should we not cling to whatever little of vedas or upanishads that are at our reach? Sollum. Have you made any amends to this mandatory clause (of ashramas) anywhere else? Neer sollum. If you don’t show me the way, I would have to re-interpret what I thought Raman indicated me on the other day. Therefore sollum. Raman wont say anything twice. You too wont say anything doubtful. Therefore sollum.” So saying as I opened my eyes, all lights suddenly went off and the Thirumeni of Ramanuja and the garbha griham glowed in in-describable splendour in the light shed by the Thoonga ViLAkku. Simultaneously I saw the bhattar taking the deepaaraadhana near his thirumeni. The immediate thought that flashed in my mind was ‘INNER GLOW’. The whole area presented a surreal picture of a pleasant glow inside the garbha griha where I was able to see clearly the smile on the face of Ramanuja glow in shantham, consolation (don’t worry kuzhandhaai), karuNyam and an alAdhi prIthi. Tears were streaming down my eyes. “Yes I have understood your message, swami. It is the inner glow that matters. It is the mental feeling that matters. If that is what you wish to tell me, I am very much sure that you would have somewhere indicated that. Bless me to grasp it soon.” As I was readying to leave, the bhattar started telling on his own volition (?) that Ramanuja stood for free inquiry, One must cultivate absolute faith when young. But as one grows up, one must go about searching, discussing, debating and inferring the salient aspects of Knowledge. Avaravar arivukku-th- thakkapadi avaravar purindu koLgirArgaL. That was what he wanted everyone to do.” I recalled the first commandment of Ramanuja. Yes he wanted everyone of us to study some part of Brahma sutra every day. There is nothing that has not been said in his sri bhashyam. If we have questions phrased in different ways, we have to look at his bhashyam again and again. Somewhere he would have certainly indicated his reply. The pramana for Inner glow must be somewhere in Brahma sutras. I began to look for the answer and it didn’t take long to identify them. Sutras 46, 47 & 48 in chapter 3-3 shed light on ‘mental fires’. He talks about the glory of meditation (of mental nature) in the context of sacrificial fires. The sacrificial fires are aimed at certain fruits. Texts speak about different ingredients that go into the conduction of sacrifices of mental fires. “The altars made of mind may be equivalent to the altar made of bricks in some aspects. This similarity does not authorise us to connect mind-made altars with the actual sacrifice. The point is that the fruit of both the performances is common.” He draws pramana from Satapatha Brahmana to establish that the passages that speak about mental fires on brick altars can not be taken as literal sacrifice but as meditation. To transfer this to reply our query, “each one is as great as the previous one’ (sat X-iv-1.3) meaning that each type of meditation, one by way of ‘works’ as prescribed by karma khandam and the other by way of knowledge are independent of each other and as great as each other. Further we find in sutras 3-4-14, 16 &19 it is established that knowledge is not subsidiary to works. “permission to perform work is for the glorification of knowledge. Indeed, one may work all his life, still he is not tainted by the greatness of knowledge. Therefore knowledge is not subsidiary to works.” To present all this in a nutshell, Ramanuja says like this in his commentary for verse 3-4-26. “ Knowledge is something absolutely different from the knowledge of the textual meaning. It is denoted by words such as dhyana (meditation), upasana (worship) etc. It is of the nature of remembrance, which has attained the form of direct and clearest perception. By practicing day by day, it attains excellence, and being continued up to final departure, it becomes the means of attaining final release.’ What is this dhyana, manana, shraddha? “it is of the form of a succession of memories which is unbroken like a stream of oil.” Elsewhere he regards this stream of oil (thaila dhaaravathu) as bhakti. He regards this non-stop remembrance as bhakti. It is for getting Dhyana, manana and shradha that Karma khandam is to be learnt (like how the children at early years of schooling are trained in oral repetition of nursery rhymes). This idea, transformed in latter period, with full blessings of Gitacharyan is known as bhakti which has dhyana, manana and shradha as the basic ingredients / requirements. In simple parlance Ramanuja comes to regard bhakti as the result of works and knowledge as the result of inquiry into Brahman. He talks about karma khandam and the scope of sacrifices not with a purpose to glorify them. He instead highlights the limits on the nature of fruits given by those sacrifices. Texts of yore insist on doing ‘works’ because they help in constant remembrance and faith (shraddha). The substituting term for this is bhakti. In today’s condition, these ingredients of sacrifices help one in growing in bhakti. Without sacrifices, texts say, that knowledge can not gained. Without bhakti, knowledge into the nature of Brahman or god can not be gained. Texts say that vedic chanting (works) is the antecedent to knowledge. Similarly, bhakti is antecedent to knowledge. Without bhakti, knowledge can not bloom. But at the same time knowledge is not subsidiary to bhakti. Gyaana khnadam supported by karma khandam was the path way to salvation. Similarly, knowledge in the nature of Bhakti is the means of attaining the Bhagavan (VS- 251) Bhakti leads to knowledge just as how ‘works’ lead to inquiry. Knowledge without bhakti is wasteful just as how gyana khnadam without karma khandam can not give results. Bhakti leading to knowledge is like how karma mimamsa study leads to the study of gyana mimamsa. Ramanuja has given the prescription. So grieve not, my mind whether you have sanction to recite vedas. Any such recital that leads you to bhakti-marga is accepted. Without such recital you can not realise the glory of Knowledge. Like without karma khanda, one can not pursue utthara khanda. The recital though very insignificant in today’s condition is aimed at hastening your interest in gyana marga. Bhoothathaazhwar had shown the way in lighting the lamp of knowledge by ‘inburugu sindhai’. The urugum inbam shows the preethi by name bhakti. The sindhai stands for knowledge. So grieve not, my mind, grieve not. To get sanction for this, I again went to see Kembhal Raman. With eyes closed with a viNNappam that He has to give approval for my thought on INNER GLOW, I was mentally concentrating on my favourite Senniyongu paasurams. When it was ‘vunnai-k-kondu ennuL vaitthEn, ennaiyum vunnil ittEn’, I opened my eyes to see Him. The bhattar was inserting a flower in Raman’s nenju when I was saying ‘ennaiyum vunnil ittEn’. Raman has accepted this. It is what springs in our mind that He takes as our offering. It is the inner thought, inner glow, inner bhakti that is the ultimate outcome of all this inquiry – no matter whether it comes from a man or a woman. Thank you Rama. I don’t forget the symbolism of your role in Ramavathara. You are all the more concerned that you must get back your Sita who is none other than us, the jivas. You are the Creator who craves to get back His dear ones – i.e., us. You can not bear the loss of your dear ones into the vicious cycle of birth and death. You always think of ways and means of getting us back to You. So it wont make an issue whether I am a woman or not, whether I chant vedas or not. You would catch hold of me appropriately at the appropriate time!! ---------------------concluded------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Sri Parthasarathi thunai SrimathE rAmAnujaya Namaha Sri Vara Vara MunayE Namaha Sri Vanachala mahA munayE Namaha Dear Smt. Jayashree sAranathan, Your mails and the analysis behind them are really amazing, beyond words. It is very true that only a person who is well guided by Perumal (your RAma) and ofcourse our dear emperumAnAr (our beloved acharya) can be so clear in thoughts and words. Your quotes from brahma sutras, geethabhasyam, vedantha sangraham, arulicheyals and other rahasya granthas show clearly that you have a clear insight into them. Adiyen's special pranams to you. Talking about bhakthi, dhyana, manana, shraddha ---It can be otherwise termed as parabhakthi, parajnana and paramabhakthi. These are the states of the first three azhvars (mudal azhvars) say our acharyas. Poigaiyazhvar who sung the mudal thiruvandhAdhi was supposed to have more of parabhakthi (though all of them had all the three states the most prominent state is attributed to them), the state of bhoodhaththAzhvar parajnAnam and the third azhvar pEyazhvar was filled with parama bhakthi. Poigai azhvar started his prabhandam with "vaiyam thagaliyA"- to remove all the ignorance that resulted due to the mesmerisation of the worldly pleasures (varuththum puravirul mARRa) His state is PARABHAKTHI- wishing to see the bhagavat svaroopa, roopa, gunangal . The second azhvar sang "anbE thagaliyA.." and removed the ignorance inside one's mind that prevented one from seeing the brahmam who recides inside each and everyone's mind (eraivanai kAnum vullaththirul keda). This state of realisation is PARAJNANAM and the final azhvar peyazhvar reached the state of PARAMABHAKTHI and had the sAkshAtkAram of emperuman (manniya pErirul mAndapin, kOvalul mAmalarAl thannodu mAyanai kandamai kAttum thamizh thalaivan) BruhadhAranyam says, "AthmAvA arE drushtavya: srOthavyO manthavyO nithithyAsithavya:" [First know about the paramatma by listening to the sastras, then analyse with your mind, meditate on the same and then finally visualise him in front of you] Thirumangai mannan puts the same into his words in thirunedunthAndakam as "mulaiththu ezhundha thingal thAnAi" Nammazhvar's was in the state of parabhakthi starting from the first paasuram in thiruviruththam till thiruvaimozhi 10-8 "KamalakaNNenru thodangi kaNNul ninrarudhi kaNdEnendra paththum vulkaNNAlEyAi kANpAnavAvudhal adhi erattiyAgaiyAlE kaNdu kalippa alavum parajnAna karpa parabhakthi" [Acharya hrudhayam -230-12] Nammazhvar reached the state of parajnanam in "soozhvisum panimugil" "erundhamai endradhu poorNaparajnAnam" [231-13] And he reached the state of paramabhakthi in the final padhigam "muniyE nAnmuganE" "mudindha avA endradhu paramabhakthi" [232-14] Geethacharyan's words about these three states, "bhakthyA tvananyayA shakya: ahamEvam vidhOrjuna, jnAthum drushtumcha tatvEna pravEshtumcha paranthapa" Sri Ramanuja prays in his gadyam as, "parabhakthi parajnana paramabhakyEka svabhAvam mAm kurushva" Reply of Sri Periya perumal, "matjnAna dharshana prApthishu nissamshayas sukamAsva" "evai jnAna dharshana prApthi avasthaigal" [AH-233-15] parabhakthi - the state of happiness while with emperuman and sorrow while away from him (samslEsha-vislEshangalil suka dukka nilai) - jnAnAvastai parajnAnam - understanding(visualising) well the bhagavat svaroopa, roopa guna vibhoothis - dharshanAvastai paramabhakthi - Like a fish out of water loosing life while separated from emperuman (state of lakshmana and seetha if separated from rama)-prApthi avastai Azhvar emperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharaNam Adiyen ramanuja dAsee Sumithra Varadarajan - "jasn sn" <jayasartn > <oppiliappan> Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:30 PM Women & chanting vedas- 4 > > SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.> > " Neer sollum. Neer vazhi nadatthum. You are one who> did not discriminate on basis of caste, gender, or> possessions. You have been exceedingly impartial to> all. But how can our God be impartial to the seeker?> In what way it makes a difference if the seeker has> learnt to chant vedas or not? Should we not cling to> whatever little of vedas or upanishads that are at our> reach? Sollum. Have you made any amends to this> mandatory clause (of ashramas) anywhere else? Neer> sollum. If you don't show me the way, I would have to> re-interpret what I thought Raman indicated me on the> other day. Therefore sollum. Raman wont say anything> twice. You too wont say anything doubtful. Therefore> sollum." So saying as I opened my eyes, all lights> suddenly went off and the Thirumeni of Ramanuja and> the garbha griham glowed in in-describable splendour> in the light shed by the Thoonga ViLAkku.> Simultaneously I saw the bhattar taking the> deepaaraadhana near his thirumeni.> The immediate thought that flashed in my mind was> 'INNER GLOW'.> > The whole area presented a surreal picture of a> pleasant glow inside the garbha griha where I was > able to see clearly the smile on the face of Ramanuja> glow in shantham, consolation (don't worry> kuzhandhaai), karuNyam and an alAdhi prIthi. Tears> were streaming down my eyes. "Yes I have understood> your message, swami. It is the inner glow that> matters. It is the mental feeling that matters. If> that is what you wish to tell me, I am very much sure> that you would have somewhere indicated that. Bless me> to grasp it soon."> > As I was readying to leave, the bhattar started> telling on his own volition (?) that Ramanuja stood> for free inquiry, One must cultivate absolute faith> when young. But as one grows up, one must go about> searching, discussing, debating and inferring the> salient aspects of Knowledge. Avaravar arivukku-th-> thakkapadi avaravar purindu koLgirArgaL. That was what> he wanted everyone to do."> > I recalled the first commandment of Ramanuja. Yes he> wanted everyone of us to study some part of Brahma> sutra every day. There is nothing that has not been> said in his sri bhashyam. If we have questions phrased> in different ways, we have to look at his bhashyam> again and again. Somewhere he would have certainly> indicated his reply. The pramana for Inner glow must> be somewhere in Brahma sutras. > > I began to look for the answer and it didn't take long> to identify them. Sutras 46, 47 & 48 in chapter 3-3> shed light on 'mental fires'. He talks about the> glory of meditation (of mental nature) in the context> of sacrificial fires. The sacrificial fires are aimed> at certain fruits. Texts speak about different> ingredients that go into the conduction of sacrifices> of mental fires. "The altars made of mind may be> equivalent to the altar made of bricks in some> aspects. This similarity does not authorise us to> connect mind-made altars with the actual sacrifice.> The point is that the fruit of both the performances> is common."> > He draws pramana from Satapatha Brahmana to establish> that the passages that speak about mental fires on> brick altars can not be taken as literal sacrifice but> as meditation. To transfer this to reply our query,> "each one is as great as the previous one' (sat> X-iv-1.3) meaning that each type of meditation, one by> way of 'works' as prescribed by karma khandam and the> other by way of knowledge are independent of each> other and as great as each other.> > Further we find in sutras 3-4-14, 16 &19 it is> established that knowledge is not subsidiary to works.> "permission to perform work is for the glorification> of knowledge. Indeed, one may work all his life, still> he is not tainted by the greatness of knowledge.> Therefore knowledge is not subsidiary to works."> > To present all this in a nutshell, Ramanuja says like> this in his commentary for verse 3-4-26.> " Knowledge is something absolutely different from> the knowledge of the textual meaning. It is denoted by> words such as dhyana (meditation), upasana (worship)> etc. It is of the nature of remembrance, which has> attained the form of direct and clearest perception.> By practicing day by day, it attains excellence, and> being continued up to final departure, it becomes the> means of attaining final release.' > > What is this dhyana, manana, shraddha? "it is of the> form of a succession of memories which is unbroken> like a stream of oil." Elsewhere he regards this> stream of oil (thaila dhaaravathu) as bhakti. He> regards this non-stop remembrance as bhakti. It is for> getting Dhyana, manana and shradha that Karma khandam> is to be learnt (like how the children at early years> of schooling are trained in oral repetition of nursery> rhymes). This idea, transformed in latter period, with> full blessings of Gitacharyan is known as bhakti> which has dhyana, manana and shradha as the basic> ingredients / requirements.> > In simple parlance Ramanuja comes to regard bhakti as> the result of works and knowledge as the result of> inquiry into Brahman. > > He talks about karma khandam and the scope of> sacrifices not with a purpose to glorify them. He> instead highlights the limits on the nature of fruits> given by those sacrifices. > > Texts of yore insist on doing 'works' because they> help in constant remembrance and faith (shraddha). > The substituting term for this is bhakti. > > In today's condition, these ingredients of sacrifices> help one in growing in bhakti. Without sacrifices,> texts say, that knowledge can not gained. > > Without bhakti, knowledge into the nature of Brahman> or god can not be gained.> > Texts say that vedic chanting (works) is the> antecedent to knowledge. > Similarly, bhakti is antecedent to knowledge.> > Without bhakti, knowledge can not bloom. > But at the same time knowledge is not subsidiary to> bhakti.> > Gyaana khnadam supported by karma khandam was the> path way to salvation. Similarly, knowledge in the> nature of Bhakti is the means of attaining the> Bhagavan (VS- 251)> > Bhakti leads to knowledge just as how 'works' lead to> inquiry.> Knowledge without bhakti is wasteful just as how gyana> khnadam without karma khandam can not give results.> Bhakti leading to knowledge is like how karma mimamsa> study leads to the study of gyana mimamsa.> > Ramanuja has given the prescription. So grieve not, my> mind whether you have sanction to recite vedas. Any> such recital that leads you to bhakti-marga is> accepted. Without such recital you can not realise the> glory of Knowledge. Like without karma khanda, one can> not pursue utthara khanda. The recital though very> insignificant in today's condition is aimed at> hastening your interest in gyana marga. > > Bhoothathaazhwar had shown the way in lighting the> lamp of knowledge by 'inburugu sindhai'. The urugum> inbam shows the preethi by name bhakti. The sindhai> stands for knowledge. So grieve not, my mind, grieve> not.> > To get sanction for this, I again went to see Kembhal> Raman. With eyes closed with a viNNappam that He has> to give approval for my thought on INNER GLOW, I was> mentally concentrating on my favourite Senniyongu> paasurams. When it was 'vunnai-k-kondu ennuL vaitthEn,> ennaiyum vunnil ittEn', I opened my eyes to see Him.> The bhattar was inserting a flower in Raman's nenju> when I was saying 'ennaiyum vunnil ittEn'. Raman has> accepted this. > > It is what springs in our mind that He takes as our> offering.> > It is the inner thought, inner glow, inner bhakti> that is the ultimate outcome of all this inquiry - no> matter whether it comes from a man or a woman. > > Thank you Rama.> I don't forget the symbolism of your role in> Ramavathara.> > You are all the more concerned that you must get back> your Sita who is none other than us, the jivas. > > You are the Creator who craves to get back His dear> ones - i.e., us. > > You can not bear the loss of your dear ones into the> vicious cycle of birth and death. > > You always think of ways and means of getting us back> to You. > > So it wont make an issue whether I am a woman or not,> whether I chant vedas or not. You would catch hold of> me appropriately at the appropriate time!!> > ---------------------concluded-------------------------> > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Companion Toolbar.> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!> http://us.click./L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM> --~-> > > > Links> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:> Oppiliappan/> > <*> To from this group, send an email to:> Oppiliappan> > <*> Your use of Groups is subject to:> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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