tri yuga

[Guest guest]

As you said I suppose that the Lord does appear whenever there is

decline in dharma and increase in dharma. I am inclined to think that

he will be doing overtime incarnating in kali yuga given the level of

degradation in dharma even among the practitioners of dharma.

 

I do agree that there are problems in accepting puranas as the sole

evidence. There are definite contradictions between them all of which

have not been necessarily resolved by the acharyas. One such

contradiction is this one. But I dont know if it is the stand of the

revered acharyas that puranas can be ignored as evidence if they seem

to have contradictions. Manu says that when there are contradictions,

both statements have to be accepted. Yajnavalkya says that reason

should be used to resolve apparent contradiction.

 

Given that the lord can appear in all the yugas, why should he be

called tri yuga in Srimad Bhagavatham ? Have any sri vaishnava

acharyas commented on this aspect ? I would be obliged to hear a

response on this.

 

Best Regards

Rajaram V.

 

tatachar (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

Dear Sriman Rajaram,The secret of avatara is clearly stated in Chapter

4 of Bhagavadgita in the first few verses. Here there are no number,

form, or space limitation. Avatrahappens when the balance between

dharma and adharma istilted more towards adharma: yada dharmasya

ghlAnir hi (Dharma over shadowed)abhi yada abdharmasya utthAnam

bhavati (Adharma triumphs).Taken this way, avatara is happening more

or less all the time. In the face of adharma, better sense prevails,

some great soul raises to protect the humanity from imminent

danger. These are the leaders we celebrate. Just the major ones are

recognized and celebrated (like the dashavatarams).Just remember

dharma and adharma ever co-exist,mutually competing (paraspara

kalaham). Whichever winsbrings the out come in that situation.All our

puranas and

sampradayams are nothing but built in safety valves. Sometimes these

valves themselvescreate problems as they get corrupted and wrong

priorities are set for whatever reason(we all have tens of examples

for this). That is when religious reformationtakes place to

re-establish truth (dharma)and slay corrupted traditions and

thoughts(Ramanujacharya had to walk out of his wifewho was

preoccupied with caste superiority). These reformers are avatarams.

Where is the question of time andnumber limitation?I think puranams

should not be taken as the whole pramanams. They are more contextual.

That is why they are not prasthana trayams. If you read Mahabharata,

each hero in a given context isdescribed as the best and the

greatest. That is all true. But if you look at the wholefewer heroes

stick out. That is why onlya small part of Mahabharatham is a

prasthana trayam.Just ask how many great sons,

daughters and parents are there in this world?Answer will be in

billions! Are they wrong? No.Are they right? No.Please bare this in

mind while reading Puranams.You should not get stuck on one phrase

here and there. That will cause confusion,worse yet you miss the

higher truth.If you get a chance, watch or readJoseph Campbell and

the power of Mythwith Bill Moyers. It helped me, it may help you too.

With that, I am able to better appreciate our sanatana

dharmam.dAsanK.S. tAtAchAr

Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

[Guest guest]

Thanks you. My question are

 

1) Why is the lord called tri yuga in Srimad Bhagavatham when there is kalki and buddha avatar ?

2) What does channa kalau mean ? There are avataras and the lord

himself promises to appear in every yuga whenever there is a decline

in dharma and a need to protect sadhus from followers of adharma.

 

Best Regards

Rajaram V.k ananthapadmanabhan <krisanantha > wrote:

Dear Sri Rajaram

 

I too have wondered like you. When one looks around & gets a feel for

the level of moral decadence & degeneration such a question is very

natural.

 

Being ignorant of our shastras & their powerful interpretations, I had

the opportunity to discus this with certain enlightened people of our

sampradayam.

 

I am stating below their considered view

 

Bagavan has sadhu paritranam as the compelling reason for an avataram.

Destroying evil forces is an incidental agenda & not the primary

reason for his avataram. So he needs Bagavathas of the caliber of

Prahalada. When such bagavatas are in danger he most certainly

incarnates.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ananthapadmanabhan

tatachar (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Sriman Rajaram,The secret of avatara is

clearly stated in Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita in the first few verses.

Here there are no number, form, or space limitation. Avatrahappens

when the balance between dharma and adharma istilted more towards

adharma: yada dharmasya ghlAnir hi (Dharma over shadowed)abhi yada

abdharmasya utthAnam bhavati (Adharma triumphs).Taken this way,

avatara is happening more or less all the time. In the face of

adharma, better sense prevails, some great soul raises to protect

the humanity from imminent danger. These are the leaders we

celebrate. Just the major ones are recognized and celebrated (like

the dashavatarams).Just remember dharma and adharma ever

co-exist,mutually competing (paraspara kalaham). Whichever winsbrings

the out come in that situation.All our puranas and

sampradayams are nothing but built in safety valves. Sometimes these

valves themselvescreate problems as they get corrupted and wrong

priorities are set for whatever reason(we all have tens of examples

for this). That is when religious reformationtakes place to

re-establish truth (dharma)and slay corrupted traditions and

thoughts(Ramanujacharya had to walk out of his wifewho was

preoccupied with caste superiority). These reformers are avatarams.

Where is the question of time andnumber limitation?I think puranams

should not be taken as the whole pramanams. They are more contextual.

That is why they are not prasthana trayams. If you read Mahabharata,

each hero in a given context isdescribed as the best and the

greatest. That is all true. But if you look at the wholefewer heroes

stick out. That is why onlya small part of Mahabharatham is a

prasthana trayam.Just ask how many great sons,

daughters and parents are there in this world?Answer will be in

billions! Are they wrong? No.Are they right? No.Please bare this in

mind while reading Puranams.You should not get stuck on one phrase

here and there. That will cause confusion,worse yet you miss the

higher truth.If you get a chance, watch or readJoseph Campbell and

the power of Mythwith Bill Moyers. It helped me, it may help you too.

With that, I am able to better appreciate our sanatana

dharmam.dAsanK.S. tAtAchAr

Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for the point by point explanation. I agree that direct

incarnation needs the a great devotee capable of attracting the lord

like prahalad. It also makes sense in one way that the lord could

come "wrapped", for want of a better term.

 

Best Regards

Rajaram V.

k ananthapadmanabhan <krisanantha > wrote:

Dear Venkatramani,

 

Dwelling over these points might get you some clarity.

 

1. Avatara hi asankhyeyah - Essentially many avatars, not just ten

 

2. Swamy Desikan refers to about 30 avatars in his Rahsya Traya Saram.

Pancharatra samhita lists 39. The ten we know commonly are the major

ones

 

3. Many are auxiliary avatars; the lord does anupravesha (entry into

the designated person's soul).

 

4. The Gautama Buddha as we know, is NOT considered to be one of the

ten major avatars. However there is a reference to an Adi Buddha as

an auxiliary avatar. Here the idea is that Baghavan deliberately lead

the evil ones on the path of such Kudrushti mathams as part of their

Karmic cycle.

 

5. On the question of Tri Yuga- He incarnates in the tri yugas & in

the Kali his incarnation could be a "wrapped one". That probably

explains "Channah Kalou". This view is reinforced by the fact that

our Azhwars themselves are said to have played such roles .

 

6. As regards decline of Dharma, pls note that it is not a “sufficient

condition” warranting his direct presence. Prahlada like Bagavathas

are required.

Thanks,

Ananthapadmanabhan

 

Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram > wrote:

Dear Sri Ananthapadmanabhan -

 

Thanks you. My question are

1) Why is the lord called tri yuga in Srimad Bhagavatham when there is kalki and buddha avatar ?

2) What does channa kalau mean ? There are avataras and the lord

himself promises to appear in every yuga whenever there is a decline

in dharma and a need to protect sadhus from followers of adharma.

 

Best Regards

Rajaram V.k ananthapadmanabhan <krisanantha > wrote:

Dear Sri Rajaram

 

I too have wondered like you. When one looks around & gets a feel for

the level of moral decadence & degeneration such a question is very

natural.

 

Being ignorant of our shastras & their powerful interpretations, I had

the opportunity to discus this with certain enlightened people of our

sampradayam.

 

I am stating below their considered view

 

Bagavan has sadhu paritranam as the compelling reason for an avataram.

Destroying evil forces is an incidental agenda & not the primary

reason for his avataram. So he needs Bagavathas of the caliber of

Prahalada. When such bagavatas are in danger he most certainly

incarnates.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ananthapadmanabhan

tatachar (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Sriman Rajaram,The secret of avatara is

clearly stated in Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita in the first few verses.

Here there are no number, form, or space limitation. Avatrahappens

when the balance between dharma and adharma istilted more towards

adharma: yada dharmasya ghlAnir hi (Dharma over shadowed)abhi yada

abdharmasya utthAnam bhavati (Adharma triumphs).Taken this way,

avatara is happening more or less all the time. In the face of

adharma, better sense prevails, some great soul raises to protect

the humanity from imminent danger. These are the leaders we

celebrate. Just the major ones are recognized and celebrated (like

the dashavatarams).Just remember dharma and adharma ever

co-exist,mutually competing (paraspara kalaham). Whichever winsbrings

the out come in that situation.All our puranas and

sampradayams are nothing but built in safety valves. Sometimes these

valves themselvescreate problems as they get corrupted and wrong

priorities are set for whatever reason(we all have tens of examples

for this). That is when religious reformationtakes place to

re-establish truth (dharma)and slay corrupted traditions and

thoughts(Ramanujacharya had to walk out of his wifewho was

preoccupied with caste superiority). These reformers are avatarams.

Where is the question of time andnumber limitation?I think puranams

should not be taken as the whole pramanams. They are more contextual.

That is why they are not prasthana trayams. If you read Mahabharata,

each hero in a given context isdescribed as the best and the

greatest. That is all true. But if you look at the wholefewer heroes

stick out. That is why onlya small part of Mahabharatham is a

prasthana trayam.Just ask how many great sons,

daughters and parents are there in this world?Answer will be in

billions! Are they wrong? No.Are they right? No.Please bare this in

mind while reading Puranams.You should not get stuck on one phrase

here and there. That will cause confusion,worse yet you miss the

higher truth.If you get a chance, watch or readJoseph Campbell and

the power of Mythwith Bill Moyers. It helped me, it may help you too.

With that, I am able to better appreciate our sanatana

dharmam.dAsanK.S. tAtAchAr

Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

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[Guest guest]

This is definitely one possible definition of tri yuga and very

agreeable. But this does not resolve the issue fully in my humble

opinion. In Srimad Bhagavatham 7.9.48, it is said that the lors is

"channa kalau" or unmanifest in kali. When there avatars in kali

yuga, why does Srimad Bhagavtham refute it ?

 

With Best Regards

Rajaram V. Sampath G <sampath_govindachari (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

Dear Bhagavathas,

Adiyen had an oppportunity to have a personal chat with one of the

renowned upanyasagars in the city , today (5-3-05) and sought his

explanation on the doubt .He clarifed as under and sure all would

agree with the explanation given . In case some one has some other

interpretation , Adiyen would welcome the same.

 

Further to the writer's explanation on the subject , we could add as under.

Here "tri yuga" does not talk about the three yugas, as we understand

.. In sanskrit "Yuga" also means double. So "Tri Yuga" indicates

double of three ,that is , six. Hence , Six indicates the Six

Thrukalayanagunas of the Lord. Viz. Jnana, Bala , Ayswarya, Veerya ,

Sakthi and Tejas.

 

Also Yugas are only four - Kritha Yuga, Thretha Yuga , Dwapara Yuga

and Kali Yuga. Sreeman Narayanan takes avatar in all the four Yugas

in line with the purposes already indicated in adiyen's earlier

reply.

Trust the matter is clarified.

Adiyen

Ramanuja Dasan, G.Sampath.

 

Narasimhan G <narasimhan_g (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Thanks for the

explanation.But please tell us why HE is called TRI YUGA. Adiyen

narasimhan-Dubai>Sampath G >Rajaram Venkataramani >CC:

>Re: tri yuga>Date:

Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:00:00 +0000 (GMT)>>>Dear Bhagavathas>>The Lord

appears on this earth through an Avatar only to fulfill the >folowing

:>Sadhu Samrakshanam ,>Dushta Nigraham and>Dharma Sthapanam .>Yes, in

Kaliyuga , the Dharma is on decline now. No doubt on this. The

>number of evil people are also on the increase. But till the Lord

locates >the Sadhu, as per HIS definition , He will not take an

avatar to save that >sadhu . So we are yet to get a sadhu like

Prahlad , in our midst and

once >we get such a person , we will have the blessings of His avatar.

So it >should be our endeavour to try our best to convert ourselves to

be like >Prahlad , through sincere Namasankeertanam , as that is the

only way we can >try to reach Him in Kaliyug.>Till such time we have

to be satisfied with Archa Avatarams.>Adiyen>Ramanuja Dasan-

G.Sampath.>>>Rajaram Venkataramani wrote:>>>sRI :>>the lord promises

to appear when there is a decline in dharma. but srimad >bhagavatam

says that the lord is tri yuga and is hidden in kali yuga >(channau

kalau). does it mean there is no decline of dharma in kali yuga ?>>or

is it because the lord has appeared as arca vigrahas ? or is it

because >the lord will appear at the end of kali yuga as kalki, when

adharma will be >fully ripe ? if the lord does appear in kali yuga

keeping his

promise of >appearing in all yugas, why should he be called tri yuga

in srimad >bhagavatham ?>>>>>>Do you

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