Is Sanskrit or Tamil Language Superior for Bhagavath anubhavam ? DramiDOpanishath Saaram/Taathparya RathnAvaLi : PART I

[Guest guest]

SrI :

 

On this AavaNi Svathy day dear to Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan , adiyEn would like to initiate

a likitha Kaimkaryam on the above controversial topic (!) , which was assigned as a topic for

discussion by the Program Chairman of the AchArya SmaraNothsavam Committee of

Ahobila Matam North America . The celebrations took place at Sri RanganAthA Temple

at Pomona , NY on Sep 3 , 2005 . There was a spirited discussion , which was mediated

by MahA Vidwaan Dr.S.M.S. Chari in an impartial manner .

 

AdiyEn and Dr.Murali Rangaswamy of Boston argued in favor of Sanskrit and Srimans AMR Kannan

of Syrcuse and Sri Oppili Gopalan of Washington DC argued in favor of Tamil . The Sanskrit Team

focussed on Vedams , Upanishads , AchArya SthOthrams as the source material for Bhagavath

anubhavam in all languages including Tamil . The Tamil team grounded deeply in NaalAyira

Dhivya Prabhandham argued effectively in favor of Tamil being the superior language for

Bhagavath anubhavam . After the friendly debate was over and a popular vote was taken ,

Dr.SMS Chari gave his impartial judgement that both languages are equal in superiority

for Bhagavath anubhavam and gave the reasons in a scholarly manner . The debate was

enjoyed thoroughly . We agreed with Dr.Chari's position . The debate was like the Kaliyan's

Paasurams , where one ghOshti sings the praise of Raaman and the other of KrishNan

as the one with greater vaibhavam .

 

By copy of this note , I am requesting SriamAns Murali Rangaswamy and A.M.R.Kannan

to summarize what they covered at the debate .

 

After the debate was over , adiyEn thought that the great genius , Swamy Desikan who

channeled his Bahgavath anubhavam in a superior manner in the three languages of

Sanskrit , Tamil and Prakrutham is the best AchAryan to study for illumination on

this subject (Ubhaya VedAntham) dear to Sri VaishNavAs .

 

In this context , I remembered the six introductory postings going back to October 1996

in Sri Ranga Sri on Taathparya RathnAvaLi and DhramidOpanishad Saaram , the two

Sanskrit Sri Sookthis of Sw amy Desikan . The topic of these two Sri Sookthis is Swamy

NammAzhwAr's ThiruvAimozhi . In these two divine works , Swamy Desikan provided deep

insights in to AzhwAr's ThiruvuLLam and AzhwAr's Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam .After the sixth

posting in that series , adiyEn went off to other topics and forgot about them . This debate

brought me back to DhramidOpanishath Saaram and Taathparya RathnAvaLi , the two

central Sri Sookthis for insights in to ThiruvAimozhi as an anubhava grantham . Unfortunately ,

Swamy Desikan's detailed commentary known as "Nigama ParimaLam " is no longer

available to us .

 

On this AavaNi Swathy day , adiyEn thought that it will be good to get back to

these two Sri Sookthis and connect them to Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam in Sanskrit

of ThiruvAimozhi and relate them to various commentaries of this sacred Prabhandham

of our Kula Pathy , Swamy NammAzhwAr . The subject is an ocean in size and scope .

Remembering the proverb , fools enter , where angels fear to tread , adiyEn will start

this effort and seek Lord HayagrIvan's anugraham to complete

this Kaimkaryam , which may take almost an year to conclude

even in a modest effort .

 

In view of the nature of the subject , not all members might be interested

in this series . Hence , adiyEn will post them in Oppiliappan , Saranagathy ,

Ramanuja Mission and Malolan Lists . Those of you who are not members of

any one of these Four lists are requested to enroll as mmembers of one of

these lists for access to future postings . You can always capture them

in Sripedia?oppiliappan archives as well .

 

Summary of my contributions to the Sep 3, 2005 debate at Sri RanganAthA Temple

**********************************************************************************************************

 

1. There is enormous "PrAmANya SamarTanam " (ample power of PramANams / valid

knowledge) for defending the position that Sanskrit Language is the best for Bhagavath

GuNAnubhavam through Japam , SthOthram and Archanam .

 

1. Japam here is the recitation of the sacred names of the Lord and enjoying

the deep and delectable meanings behind them . Swamy ParAsara Bhattar

has engaged in such Japam in his Sri Sookthi , " Bahgavath GuNa DarpaNam"

( A Mirror to the GuNams of the Lord ).

 

2. SthOthram here is the keertanam of the Lord's Vaibhavam loudly as eulogy

(with or without Music and TaaLam ) . BhAvam is most important here .

 

3. Archanam is the elaborate ritual worship or Bhagavadh AarAdhanam

with prescribed Aaasanams and Veda Manthrams with deep Bhakthi .

 

Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam covers Roopa , Svaroopa , ArchA , Vibhava

and LeelA anubhavams as well .

 

The Six Major GuNAs of the Lord

******************************************

Upanishads salute the Parabrahmam tersely as " Sathyam Jn~Anam Anantham BrahmA ".

This Brahman of Upanishads is rederred to in AchArya RaamAnujA's Sri BhAshyam as

Ubhayalinga VibhUthi NaaTan : (1) One with a Dhivya MangaLa Vigraham and limitless

auspicious GuNams and (2) free from any hEyams ( blemishes ). All the limitles guNams

fold in to SIX Primary GuNams . They are :

 

1.Jn~Anam ( Omniscience ) , (2) Sakthi ( Omnipotence) , (3) Balam (Strength ,

(4) Iswaryam ( Lordship) , Veeryam ( Energy ) and Tejas ( Splendour) .

 

All the other GuNams like Souseelyam (Gracious condescense ) ,Soulabyam

(Easy accessibility ) , Vaathsalyam ( loving disposition ) , KrupA (Compassion) ,

OudhAryA (generosity) , BandhuthvA ( Friendly Relationship ) and the numerous

other auspicious attributes used by AchArya RaamAnujA in His three Gadhyams

come under one or more of the six primary GuNmas . Swamy Desikan brings

these insights in His Gadhya Thraya , CahthusslOki and SthOthra Rathna BhAshyams

in Sanskrit brilliantly .

 

When one reflects on the three gadhyams of RaamAnuja , Panchasthavams of KurEsa ,

Swamy AlavanthAr's ChathusslOki and SthOthra Rathnam as well as the profound

commentaries of Swamy ParAsara Bhattar on (1) Sri VishNu Sahasra Naamam ,

(Sri Bhagavadh GuNa DarpaNam ) , (2) GuNa Rathna Kosam , (3) Sri Rangaraja Sthavam

and (4) Thirumanjana Kattiyam fro RanganAthA ; Swamy Desikan's 28 moving SthOthrams

and DhramidOpanishath Saaram/Taathparya RathnAvaLi are in Sanskrit . Now , one wonders

why these AchAryAs chose to write in Sanskrit instead of in Agastya BhAshA . Swamy Desikan's

Commentaries on PrakaraNa granthams are in MaNi PravALam ( a heavily Sanskritized version of

Tamil ). The fact that they wrote only in Sanskrit has many answers

form proponents and

opponents of Sanskrit as THE medium of communication for Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam .

That formed the core of the debate at the Sep 3 sessions.

 

AdiyEn has a biassed view here to share : All of our AchAryAs cited above knew Dhivya

Prabhandhams very well including PiLLAn , who wrote the first commentary on ThiruvAimozhi in

MaNi PravALam ( 6000 Padi where the two thirds of the words are Sanskrit ) .

Yet they chose Sanskrit for Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam because no other language

has the SaguNa Texts ( pramANams ) except Sanskrit ( Vedam , Upanishads , IthihAsam

and Saathvika PurANams : all of these are in Sanskrit ). They needed

those SaguNA texts to celebrate

and highlight the VisishtAdhvaithic View of Bhagavath GuNAs of Para Brahmam ,

the Tatthva Thrayams and the Rahasya Thrayams dealing with Tatthvam , hitham and

(Parama) PurushArTam . In addition to the SaguNa texts , Sanskrit has unique

Sabdha alankArams , ArTa alankArams , VyAkaraNam , Metres for poetry ( SaardhUla

VikreeDitham , UpajAthi , Vasantha Tilakam , Manju BhAshiNi , SragdharA , Maalini ,

MandhAkrAnthA,SikhariNi , Indhra VrajA , Rukmavathy , SasikalA , PrastArikA et al).

All of these enhances the depth of Bhagavath anubhavam ,whether one knows these

topics are not .

 

BhagavAn Himself gives the clue for Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam in His GithOpanishad:

 

macchitthA madhgathaprANA BhOdhayantha: Parasparam

kaTayantasccha Maam nithyam tushyanthi cha ramanthi cha

 

(Geethai : X.9 )

 

(Meaning) : "With their minds focused on Me , inspiring one another

and always speaking of Me , they live in contentment and bliss at

all times .

 

Acharya RaamAnujA's Commnetary on this slOkam : " MathchitthA: Mayi nivishta manasa:

( They live with their minds fixed on Me); Madhgatha: PrANaa: ( Their life is centerd

on Me ); MadhgathajeevithA: MayA vinA AathmadhAraNam alabamAnA : ( Their

lives are centered on Me and they are unable to sustain themselves without Me ) ;

Svai: Svai: anubhUthAn MadheeyAn guNAn Parasparam BhOdhayantha:

( They inspire one another by speaking about My guNams , which have been

experienced by them ); MadheeyAni dhivyAni ramaNeeyAni karmANi cha

KaTayantha: tushyanthi cha ramanthi cha ( Narrating My divine and adorable

acts , they live in contentment and bliss at all times ). VakthAra: tadhvachanEna

ananya prayOjanEna tushyanthy ( The speakers are delighted by their own speech ,

because it is spontaneous and has no ulterior motives) SrOthrAsccha tadhsravaNEna

anavadhikAthisaya priyENa ramanthy ( the listeners too feel the speech to be

unsurpassingly and incomparably dear to them . They thus live in bliss ) .

That is the word of GeethAchAryan !

 

Genius of Sanskrit Language

***************************************

The extraordinary ease of Sanskrit language is in summing up huge doctrines

in one word or few words . Swamy Desikan used Sanskrit therefore to provide

the Quintessential essence of NaalAyira Dhivya Prabhandha Pasurams . These

4000 are divided in to decads ( Dasakam ) , Hundreds ( Sathakams) and ten hundreds

( Dasa Sathakams ).

 

Swamy Desikan used the inherent facility of Sanskrit for condensing entire decads ,

centums and Thousands in to one word in terse manner without l;osing the core

meaning of the Paasurams .

 

We will devote the subsequent posts to introduce DramidOpanishath Saaram

and Taathparya RathnAvaLi in this light .

 

With Prayers to Swamy Desikan and Lord HayagrIvan , let us commence this journey ,

Daasan , Oppiliappan Koil VaradAchAry Sadagopan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sriman NVS Swamy :

 

Thnaks very much .

There is no doubt by the debaters even for a second about

Sanskrit and Tamil being two eyes of our SampradhAyam

and both requiring equal reverence .This debate was to enhance

Bhagavath anubhavam .

 

The forthcoming series on Dramidopanishath Saaram/Taathparya

RathnAvaLi will attest to that point of view .

 

By the way , as Dr.SMS Chari Pointed out , there is no

such thing as Ubhaya VedAntham . There is only ONE

VedAntham .Ubhaya VedAnthAchArya has to be understood

as being an authority in the same VedAntham spelled out in

two languages .

 

V.Sadagopan

 

 

 

-

"Deevalur Srinivasan" <vasuvadhyar

"sgopan" <sgopan; <vaideekam>

Friday, September 09, 2005 6:28 AM

Re: Is Sanskrit or Tamil Language Superior for Bhagavath anubhavam

? DramiDOpanishath Saaram/Taathparya RathnAvaLi : PART I

 

 

> Dear Swamin,

> Before reading the full message, I got excited, what

> is our opinion, I questioned my self and I got the

> vote for Sanskrit at the first few fraction of second

> but immediately changed to Tamil but not satisfied

> with that for long time. We are calling ourselves as

> 'Upaya Vedhanthi' how it will be good to vote for any

> one Vedham? We can not say a great example than the

> eyes (Which is important left eye or right eye?). So,

> finally I thought that we are having only two tastes

> to enjoy bhagavadhanubhavam. So, I made my vote on

> both.

> I request you to kindly send a copy of all messages

> from you to our (vaideekam) group also. I have made

> your id as unmoderated.

> I feel very very happy to see the information that you

> are pllaning to put your 'porpaadham' in adiyens

> 'kudisai', I am eagerly expecting for that day to have

> your dharshan.

> Utharo uththara abhivrudhirasthu

> Samastha san mangalani sandhu.

> VAsu VAdhyAr.

> --- sgopan <sgopan wrote:

>

>> SrI :

>>

>> On this AavaNi Svathy day dear to Sri Lakshmi

>> Narasimhan , adiyEn would like to initiate

>> a likitha Kaimkaryam on the above controversial

>> topic (!) , which was assigned as a topic for

>> discussion by the Program Chairman of the AchArya

>> SmaraNothsavam Committee of

>> Ahobila Matam North America . The celebrations took

>> place at Sri RanganAthA Temple

>> at Pomona , NY on Sep 3 , 2005 . There was a

>> spirited discussion , which was mediated

>> by MahA Vidwaan Dr.S.M.S. Chari in an impartial

>> manner .

>>

>> AdiyEn and Dr.Murali Rangaswamy of Boston argued in

>> favor of Sanskrit and Srimans AMR Kannan

>> of Syrcuse and Sri Oppili Gopalan of Washington DC

>> argued in favor of Tamil . The Sanskrit Team

>> focussed on Vedams , Upanishads , AchArya SthOthrams

>> as the source material for Bhagavath

>> anubhavam in all languages including Tamil . The

>> Tamil team grounded deeply in NaalAyira

>> Dhivya Prabhandham argued effectively in favor of

>> Tamil being the superior language for

>> Bhagavath anubhavam . After the friendly debate was

>> over and a popular vote was taken ,

>> Dr.SMS Chari gave his impartial judgement that both

>> languages are equal in superiority

>> for Bhagavath anubhavam and gave the reasons in a

>> scholarly manner . The debate was

>> enjoyed thoroughly . We agreed with Dr.Chari's

>> position . The debate was like the Kaliyan's

>> Paasurams , where one ghOshti sings the praise of

>> Raaman and the other of KrishNan

>> as the one with greater vaibhavam .

>>

>> By copy of this note , I am requesting SriamAns

>> Murali Rangaswamy and A.M.R.Kannan

>> to summarize what they covered at the debate .

>>

>> After the debate was over , adiyEn thought that the

>> great genius , Swamy Desikan who

>> channeled his Bahgavath anubhavam in a superior

>> manner in the three languages of

>> Sanskrit , Tamil and Prakrutham is the best AchAryan

>> to study for illumination on

>> this subject (Ubhaya VedAntham) dear to Sri

>> VaishNavAs .

>>

>> In this context , I remembered the six introductory

>> postings going back to October 1996

>> in Sri Ranga Sri on Taathparya RathnAvaLi and

>> DhramidOpanishad Saaram , the two

>> Sanskrit Sri Sookthis of Sw amy Desikan . The topic

>> of these two Sri Sookthis is Swamy

>> NammAzhwAr's ThiruvAimozhi . In these two divine

>> works , Swamy Desikan provided deep

>> insights in to AzhwAr's ThiruvuLLam and AzhwAr's

>> Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam .After the sixth

>> posting in that series , adiyEn went off to other

>> topics and forgot about them . This debate

>> brought me back to DhramidOpanishath Saaram and

>> Taathparya RathnAvaLi , the two

>> central Sri Sookthis for insights in to

>> ThiruvAimozhi as an anubhava grantham .

>> Unfortunately ,

>> Swamy Desikan's detailed commentary known as "Nigama

>> ParimaLam " is no longer

>> available to us .

>>

>> On this AavaNi Swathy day , adiyEn thought that it

>> will be good to get back to

>> these two Sri Sookthis and connect them to Bhagavath

>> GuNAnubhavam in Sanskrit

>> of ThiruvAimozhi and relate them to various

>> commentaries of this sacred Prabhandham

>> of our Kula Pathy , Swamy NammAzhwAr . The subject

>> is an ocean in size and scope .

>> Remembering the proverb , fools enter , where angels

>> fear to tread , adiyEn will start

>> this effort and seek Lord HayagrIvan's anugraham

>> to complete

>> this Kaimkaryam , which may take almost an year to

>> conclude

>> even in a modest effort .

>>

>> In view of the nature of the subject , not all

>> members might be interested

>> in this series . Hence , adiyEn will post them in

>> Oppiliappan , Saranagathy ,

>> Ramanuja Mission and Malolan Lists . Those of you

>> who are not members of

>> any one of these Four lists are requested to enroll

>> as mmembers of one of

>> these lists for access to future postings . You can

>> always capture them

>> in Sripedia?oppiliappan archives as well .

>>

>> Summary of my contributions to the Sep 3, 2005

>> debate at Sri RanganAthA Temple

>>

>

********************************************************************************\

**************************

>>

>> 1. There is enormous "PrAmANya SamarTanam " (ample

>> power of PramANams / valid

>> knowledge) for defending the position that Sanskrit

>> Language is the best for Bhagavath

>> GuNAnubhavam through Japam , SthOthram and Archanam

>> .

>>

>> 1. Japam here is the recitation of the sacred names

>> of the Lord and enjoying

>> the deep and delectable meanings behind them . Swamy

>> ParAsara Bhattar

>> has engaged in such Japam in his Sri Sookthi , "

>> Bahgavath GuNa DarpaNam"

>> ( A Mirror to the GuNams of the Lord ).

>>

>> 2. SthOthram here is the keertanam of the Lord's

>> Vaibhavam loudly as eulogy

>> (with or without Music and TaaLam ) . BhAvam is most

>> important here .

>>

>> 3. Archanam is the elaborate ritual worship or

>> Bhagavadh AarAdhanam

>> with prescribed Aaasanams and Veda Manthrams with

>> deep Bhakthi .

>>

>> Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam covers Roopa , Svaroopa ,

>> ArchA , Vibhava

>> and LeelA anubhavams as well .

>>

>> The Six Major GuNAs of the Lord

>> ******************************************

>> Upanishads salute the Parabrahmam tersely as "

>> Sathyam Jn~Anam Anantham BrahmA ".

>> This Brahman of Upanishads is rederred to in AchArya

>> RaamAnujA's Sri BhAshyam as

>> Ubhayalinga VibhUthi NaaTan : (1) One with a Dhivya

>> MangaLa Vigraham and limitless

>> auspicious GuNams and (2) free from any hEyams (

>> blemishes ). All the limitles guNams

>> fold in to SIX Primary GuNams . They are :

>>

>> 1.Jn~Anam ( Omniscience ) , (2) Sakthi (

>> Omnipotence) , (3) Balam (Strength ,

>> (4) Iswaryam ( Lordship) , Veeryam ( Energy ) and

>> Tejas ( Splendour) .

>>

>> All the other GuNams like Souseelyam (Gracious

>> condescense ) ,Soulabyam

>> (Easy accessibility ) , Vaathsalyam ( loving

>> disposition ) , KrupA (Compassion) ,

>> OudhAryA (generosity) , BandhuthvA ( Friendly

>> Relationship ) and the numerous

>> other auspicious attributes used by AchArya

>> RaamAnujA in His three Gadhyams

>> come under one or more of the six primary GuNmas .

>> Swamy Desikan brings

>> these insights in His Gadhya Thraya , CahthusslOki

>> and SthOthra Rathna BhAshyams

>> in Sanskrit brilliantly .

>>

>> When one reflects on the three gadhyams of RaamAnuja

>> , Panchasthavams of KurEsa ,

>> Swamy AlavanthAr's ChathusslOki and SthOthra Rathnam

>> as well as the profound

>> commentaries of Swamy ParAsara Bhattar on (1) Sri

>> VishNu Sahasra Naamam ,

>> (Sri Bhagavadh GuNa DarpaNam ) , (2) GuNa Rathna

>> Kosam , (3) Sri Rangaraja Sthavam

>> and (4) Thirumanjana Kattiyam fro RanganAthA ; Swamy

>> Desikan's 28 moving SthOthrams

>> and DhramidOpanishath Saaram/Taathparya RathnAvaLi

>> are in Sanskrit . Now , one wonders

>> why these AchAryAs chose to write in Sanskrit

>> instead of in Agastya BhAshA . Swamy Desikan's

>> Commentaries on PrakaraNa granthams are in MaNi

>> PravALam ( a heavily Sanskritized version of

>> Tamil ). The fact that they wrote only in Sanskrit

>> has many answers form proponents and

>> opponents of Sanskrit as THE medium of communication

>> for Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam .

>> That formed the core of the debate at the Sep 3

>> sessions.

>>

>> AdiyEn has a biassed view here to share : All of

>> our AchAryAs cited above knew Dhivya

>> Prabhandhams very well including PiLLAn , who wrote

>> the first commentary on ThiruvAimozhi in

>> MaNi PravALam ( 6000 Padi where the two thirds of

>> the words are Sanskrit ) .

>> Yet they chose Sanskrit for Bhagavath GuNAnubhavam

>> because no other language

>> has the SaguNa Texts ( pramANams ) except Sanskrit (

>> Vedam , Upanishads , IthihAsam

>> and Saathvika PurANams : all of these are in

>> Sanskrit ). They needed those SaguNA texts to

>> celebrate

>> and highlight the VisishtAdhvaithic View of

>> Bhagavath GuNAs of Para Brahmam ,

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> My Best wishes! Visit our website: www.ahobilam.com

> Vadhyar, Sri Vaishnava Kendram, Deevalur N.V.Srinivasan

> Please contact me at 3 485 1392 if 2 485 1392 is not available!

>

>

>

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>

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>

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