Guest guest Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Dear Smt krishna priya, Pranams. I am glad that you have come up with these two questions. Let me attempt the answers. --------------- On 11/20/05, krishna priya <krishna.neela2001 wrote: > shree: > >> Madam,after reading the part -12 posting in oppiliappan - > regarding male issue , i have small doubt how is female baby is born? is > there any difference?if so how?As per upanishad texts because science sees > no difference in it .Male baby is very important in chinese culture too.does > that mean they too beleive in pitru tarpanam etc.,? ---- If your question is about why females do not do tarpanam / final rites etc, then I think the combined reading of the 2 appendices I provided along with part 12, gives the reply. >From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born. Please read the details in appendix 1 for the justification that the soul goes back in the way it has entered - that is, through man it enters and through man it leaves to the other world. The other plausible justification is the connection of Y chromosome which goes un-changed down the generations. Only these 2 clues we have, one from texts and the other from modern science. These two make me think that continuity happpens only through male. Another reasoning is that if you look at upanishads like Aithareya and Brihadaranyaka, it is said that from male, the female is made. Aithareya says, that God Himself made man in His image , from one part of Himself. This first born created a female from himself. But since it is his child he could mate her for procreation and so he entered a bull and the female became his feamle companion and procreated and thus it started. Brihadaranyaka says that Prajapathi created the first female and through her procreated. After seeing the recent news from the science of cloning that a baby has been cloned from 2 fathers, I wonder whether it is possible to create a female from a male. Because the two upanishads I quoted testify such a possibility. If this is how the first births have happened, then there can be no doubt about why males only have the right to do final rites and tarpanam. It is our strong belief that this sanatana dharma which says so much about how to live and sustain dharma with much stronger rational and scientific basis can not have made this male connection without a strong basis. This is the ONLY area where preference to male is given. The purpose of marriage is 'vishesena vahati iti vivaha:' - that which gives special rights. One of them or one among the foremost is procreation. The purpose of procreation is to release the pithrus from the hell called 'pu'. This is what scriptures say. In Tamil too, the word 'vaazhkkai' is derived from 'vazhi' and explained as begetting children to continue the race. It is in this connection only, the childless ones and those who have no male issues used to adopt a male baby. But here comes a hitch. By adoption, the gothra changes , not the y chromosome. It used to be said, that though one has been given for adoption, while fixing marriages in his lieneage, his parental gothra also must be excluded. I have known of scholars who had been aware of this, but yielded to giving consent to marriages within the same gothra by-passing this stricture of exclusion of that gothra to which the fatehr or any pithru had belonged, only to see the result in future progeny, being born with defects. So it is high time, we construct the family tree atleast till 7 generations, to know that the gothra has continued in straight line. I mention 7 generations here, because texts say that when a person does tarpanam in all earnestness, he is said to be releasing 7 generations proir to him and 7 generations after him. In case of doing it excellently, 14 generations are releived. This shows that though 3 generations do have a direct bearing on a person, between 7 to 14 generations are in some way connected to a person by passing some genetic material. About Chinese system, i am not aware of it. But since sanatana dharma has been the sole dharma of the entire world in the very distant past, it could have stayed in some places in some ways. (this becoems the answer to your 2 nd question. ) If you are referring to the chinese system of determining the gender of babies based on the mother's age, i have this to say. This calendar is almost near perfect. The explanation and rationale for this exists in none other than Thirumathram of Thiru moolar, interpreted by Dr Jayam Kannan. Generally texts say that a female baby is conceived when mounted on the left side. I read a mail to this effect in one of the groups recently on Brahmacharyam. No one exactly knows what this means. But from the interpretation of some verses from Thirumoolar's, it is known that it is the female who actually determines the gender of the baby - not the male (hope no further harassment of women happens due to this). Only one of her ovearies produce a mature egg every month and this goes alternatingly, that is, at left side one month and at right side the next month. There are times too when the same ovary produces continuously for two months. This routine is almost fixed in all females. The fluid at left falloppian tube is such that it inhibits the movement of x sperms of the male, thereby making the chances of the y to ferilise the egg. Contrarily, the right falloppian tube secrets a fluid that inhibits y sperms, resulting in the movement of x sperms alone through it. This selection determines the gender - and has been encrypted in the above mentioned text. This makes it possible to say how the Chinese calandar always tallies. Here again, i am of the opinion that this knowledge has existed inly in Vedantic society and has spread to other places.You will be surprised to read in the last chapter of Brihadaranyaka upanishad, how even the semen can be retreived by the male in copulation, thereby avoiding pregnancy. Everything happens by the power of thought, slokas and mind. By such power, the people of yore got the male and female too. -- > 2) Madam,if whole of universe is gods creation how is it only india > or indian think about vedas? when did all vedas,upanishads got concentrated > in india?or how is it all mahavishnu avatharas took place only in india > when his shristi is not limited to india only? > This doubt is very common doubt( pragna bharathi(RSS wing) > seminar answered it saying that indian is in center of globe so it answers > many ) Still i would like to know further . > > thanking you > > pranamams > krishnapriya > --\ --- Please browse http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Suvarnabhumi.htm and all the articles in History column in that dot com www.atributetohinduism.com You will get a wealth of information on the division of land forms in those days (mentioned in jambhudweepa nirmana patalam in Bheeshma parvam, MB), with authentic information on what those areas are in today's world. A combined reading of this parvam from MB along with this dotcom will show that this land of ours was the basis for growth of Vedantic knowledge and people spread to all these places. The other palces, barring a few have lost this heritage and we fortunately are still into it, thanks to the importance given to unbroken lienage given by this vedantic society. The 6 month duration for a day or for night for devas and asuras tally with arctic and antartic circle. The mysterious passages I quoted earlier from Chandogya in the series, on vasus etc about sun rising in west or south or north can be alluded to this. A few info from this unitariness of the world in those days: The lake Baikal of Siberia is supposed to be lake Vaikhanas. Sage Yajna valkhya was supposed to have attended the court somewhere here. Lopamudra is even today the common name for females in Russia and this also happens to be sage Agasthya's wife! Many tamil scholars refuse to accept that Agasthya came from North. But this name connection shows that he had been to deep North. In MB it is said that the Northern land is a blessed land of seers. Again the vedic way of identifying oneself in sankalpa starting from macro level to micro level (from shwetha varaha kalpe onwards till this day, this place etc) is still followed in postal address in Russia, wherein the coutry's name is featured on top followed by the further divisions down the line till the door number and finally the person's name. We have left this practice found in sanklapa manthra, to follow in daily life. But they still have it.Which country or civilisation must have been central to all of these? Another info. The origin of river Nile was found out only with the help of a brahmin who interpreted it some purana. It is said to be Vayu purana. There is mention of this river and its place of origin in this Purana, it is said. This information is found in the autobiography/memoirs of John speake who discovered the origin and named it Lake Victoria. As per the information obtained from that brahmin, he came to a lake which the locals called Amara located near the Mountains of the Moon. The sanskrit of mountains of the moon is 'somagiri'. The lake identified in the puranas was lake Amara. The names in the local dialects tallied with sanskrit names. Speake re-named this lake Lake Victoria, which is what we all know it as today. Regards, jayasree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 shreemathi jayashree; Actually what i wanted to know is even for female child to be born (From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born.) the procedure must be same since soul does not have any sexdescrimination etc., etc., i suppose . I felt there has to be some other reason too .SO, i wanted to clarify regarding if the procedural difference exisits for female baby and male baby birth. I always used to think it is strain for the female to undergo such eleoberate procedures as women are considered to be delicate. however it is just physical aspect i was thinking. thank you pranamams krishnapriya Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan wrote: SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Dear Smt krishna priya, Pranams. I am glad that you have come up with these two questions. Let me attempt the answers. --------------- On 11/20/05, krishna priya <krishna.neela2001 wrote: > shree: > >> Madam,after reading the part -12 posting in oppiliappan - > regarding male issue , i have small doubt how is female baby is born? is > there any difference?if so how?As per upanishad texts because science sees > no difference in it .Male baby is very important in chinese culture too.does > that mean they too beleive in pitru tarpanam etc.,? ---- If your question is about why females do not do tarpanam / final rites etc, then I think the combined reading of the 2 appendices I provided along with part 12, gives the reply. >From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born. Please read the details in appendix 1 for the justification that the soul goes back in the way it has entered - that is, through man it enters and through man it leaves to the other world. The other plausible justification is the connection of Y chromosome which goes un-changed down the generations. Only these 2 clues we have, one from texts and the other from modern science. These two make me think that continuity happpens only through male. Another reasoning is that if you look at upanishads like Aithareya and Brihadaranyaka, it is said that from male, the female is made. Aithareya says, that God Himself made man in His image , from one part of Himself. This first born created a female from himself. But since it is his child he could mate her for procreation and so he entered a bull and the female became his feamle companion and procreated and thus it started. Brihadaranyaka says that Prajapathi created the first female and through her procreated. After seeing the recent news from the science of cloning that a baby has been cloned from 2 fathers, I wonder whether it is possible to create a female from a male. Because the two upanishads I quoted testify such a possibility. If this is how the first births have happened, then there can be no doubt about why males only have the right to do final rites and tarpanam. It is our strong belief that this sanatana dharma which says so much about how to live and sustain dharma with much stronger rational and scientific basis can not have made this male connection without a strong basis. This is the ONLY area where preference to male is given. The purpose of marriage is 'vishesena vahati iti vivaha:' - that which gives special rights. One of them or one among the foremost is procreation. The purpose of procreation is to release the pithrus from the hell called 'pu'. This is what scriptures say. In Tamil too, the word 'vaazhkkai' is derived from 'vazhi' and explained as begetting children to continue the race. It is in this connection only, the childless ones and those who have no male issues used to adopt a male baby. But here comes a hitch. By adoption, the gothra changes , not the y chromosome. It used to be said, that though one has been given for adoption, while fixing marriages in his lieneage, his parental gothra also must be excluded. I have known of scholars who had been aware of this, but yielded to giving consent to marriages within the same gothra by-passing this stricture of exclusion of that gothra to which the fatehr or any pithru had belonged, only to see the result in future progeny, being born with defects. So it is high time, we construct the family tree atleast till 7 generations, to know that the gothra has continued in straight line. I mention 7 generations here, because texts say that when a person does tarpanam in all earnestness, he is said to be releasing 7 generations proir to him and 7 generations after him. In case of doing it excellently, 14 generations are releived. This shows that though 3 generations do have a direct bearing on a person, between 7 to 14 generations are in some way connected to a person by passing some genetic material. About Chinese system, i am not aware of it. But since sanatana dharma has been the sole dharma of the entire world in the very distant past, it could have stayed in some places in some ways. (this becoems the answer to your 2 nd question. ) If you are referring to the chinese system of determining the gender of babies based on the mother's age, i have this to say. This calendar is almost near perfect. The explanation and rationale for this exists in none other than Thirumathram of Thiru moolar, interpreted by Dr Jayam Kannan. Generally texts say that a female baby is conceived when mounted on the left side. I read a mail to this effect in one of the groups recently on Brahmacharyam. No one exactly knows what this means. But from the interpretation of some verses from Thirumoolar's, it is known that it is the female who actually determines the gender of the baby - not the male (hope no further harassment of women happens due to this). Only one of her ovearies produce a mature egg every month and this goes alternatingly, that is, at left side one month and at right side the next month. There are times too when the same ovary produces continuously for two months. This routine is almost fixed in all females. The fluid at left falloppian tube is such that it inhibits the movement of x sperms of the male, thereby making the chances of the y to ferilise the egg. Contrarily, the right falloppian tube secrets a fluid that inhibits y sperms, resulting in the movement of x sperms alone through it. This selection determines the gender - and has been encrypted in the above mentioned text. This makes it possible to say how the Chinese calandar always tallies. Here again, i am of the opinion that this knowledge has existed inly in Vedantic society and has spread to other places.You will be surprised to read in the last chapter of Brihadaranyaka upanishad, how even the semen can be retreived by the male in copulation, thereby avoiding pregnancy. Everything happens by the power of thought, slokas and mind. By such power, the people of yore got the male and female too. -- > 2) Madam,if whole of universe is gods creation how is it only india > or indian think about vedas? when did all vedas,upanishads got concentrated > in india?or how is it all mahavishnu avatharas took place only in india > when his shristi is not limited to india only? > This doubt is very common doubt( pragna bharathi(RSS wing) > seminar answered it saying that indian is in center of globe so it answers > many ) Still i would like to know further . > > thanking you > > pranamams > krishnapriya > --\ --- Please browse http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Suvarnabhumi.htm and all the articles in History column in that dot com www.atributetohinduism.com You will get a wealth of information on the division of land forms in those days (mentioned in jambhudweepa nirmana patalam in Bheeshma parvam, MB), with authentic information on what those areas are in today's world. A combined reading of this parvam from MB along with this dotcom will show that this land of ours was the basis for growth of Vedantic knowledge and people spread to all these places. The other palces, barring a few have lost this heritage and we fortunately are still into it, thanks to the importance given to unbroken lienage given by this vedantic society. The 6 month duration for a day or for night for devas and asuras tally with arctic and antartic circle. The mysterious passages I quoted earlier from Chandogya in the series, on vasus etc about sun rising in west or south or north can be alluded to this. A few info from this unitariness of the world in those days: The lake Baikal of Siberia is supposed to be lake Vaikhanas. Sage Yajna valkhya was supposed to have attended the court somewhere here. Lopamudra is even today the common name for females in Russia and this also happens to be sage Agasthya's wife! Many tamil scholars refuse to accept that Agasthya came from North. But this name connection shows that he had been to deep North. In MB it is said that the Northern land is a blessed land of seers. Again the vedic way of identifying oneself in sankalpa starting from macro level to micro level (from shwetha varaha kalpe onwards till this day, this place etc) is still followed in postal address in Russia, wherein the coutry's name is featured on top followed by the further divisions down the line till the door number and finally the person's name. We have left this practice found in sanklapa manthra, to follow in daily life. But they still have it.Which country or civilisation must have been central to all of these? Another info. The origin of river Nile was found out only with the help of a brahmin who interpreted it some purana. It is said to be Vayu purana. There is mention of this river and its place of origin in this Purana, it is said. This information is found in the autobiography/memoirs of John speake who discovered the origin and named it Lake Victoria. As per the information obtained from that brahmin, he came to a lake which the locals called Amara located near the Mountains of the Moon. The sanskrit of mountains of the moon is 'somagiri'. The lake identified in the puranas was lake Amara. The names in the local dialects tallied with sanskrit names. Speake re-named this lake Lake Victoria, which is what we all know it as today. Regards, jayasree Fund raising Beliefs Religion Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. Oppiliappan FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan Nov 21, 2005 8:40 PM Re: namasthe krishna priya <krishna.neela2001 SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Dear Smt krishnapriya, As for your query, >>>>Oppiliappan, krishna priya <neelakrishna2001> wrote: > > > Actually what i wanted to know is even for female child to be born (From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know > that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born.) > the procedure must be same since soul does not have any sexdescrimination etc., etc., i suppose . > > I felt there has to be some other reason too .SO, i wanted to clarify regarding if the procedural difference exisits for female baby and male baby birth. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The reply is that there is no scriptural authority for different procedure for the birth of a female. The gender differentiation is to do with the knid of kind of karma that one has to undergo in the new birth. In this connection 2 things come to my mind. One is the well known description that since He is the Purusha, all the other jivas are the female counterparts yearning to attain Him. If you look at the past histories of so many bhakthas and mukhthas, only those in nayaka-nayaki bhava have easily realised Him, say, a Radha, AndaL, the muslim princess who kept with her Rama-p-priyan (known as Sampath humaran now at Melkote) and Mira. It is easy for the soul in female bhava to show Him the prEmai. The Krishna leela at Gokulam looks to me as a deliberate message by Bhagavan that He can be caught, He can be tied and attained only by such prEmai. He appeared with all the Gopikas at the same time, making each of them think that He is with that particular Gopika only. This is exactly what each soul on attaining Him (or even otherwise) think. He is with everybody, within everybody, at all times - but in one to one contact. It is only as a female one can truly enjoy Him with motherly affection too. In one of your previous mails you felt why the araadhana is prescribed to be done by males only. I have never felt like that. The kind of patience, care, concern and love we show to the members of the family can not be so easily replicated by the male members. We never feel hunger or thirst till our children and other members are taken of. That is why it has been said that even if the woman does not prostrate before God, but takes supreme care of her husband, she will attain the very best lokas. (remember the KuraL " deivam thozhAL, kozhuNan ...) The pancha bhoothas will obey her words! Here it is not about the supremacy of the male, but it is about the ATTITUDE that the woman has, by complete surrender of her interests or making her interests subordinate to the interests of her husband. Such kind of ATTITUDE in other words is bhakthi or devotion or love. To get such an attitude, the male must transform into a female:-) That is why I always think that He will wait for me till I finish my immediate chores of getting my kids ready and helping my husband finish his puja and other chores. Bhagavan will wait till I finish these chores. Sometimes when some interruptions are there, I used to tell Him, 'konjam wait paNNum. vElaiyai mudichchundu varEn.' I imagine Him to be the little krishna, the image I have seen in my kids when they used to wait for me to come from kitchen with the cup of saadham and impatiently peep into kitchen with the picture-book in their hands, for me to come soon and tell them the stories as I feed them. Likewise, Bhagavan will wait peeping out of perumaL sannidhi, to see whether we have come to attend to Him. He must be definitely relishing our puja, to listen to our aradhana which is not the same as what the men repeat everyday. There is variety in our aaradhana. Ours will be different, from pouring out day's happenings, to worries and happy things - every thing will be there - singing some new songs - He never comments on our songs as bad:-) I think He will relish the way we treat Him and interact with Him. It is by being in female ATTITUDE, He can be made easily pleased. So this comes by practice to a male. That is perhaps why, the foetus is like a female in the first few weeks and only later the differentiation appears. The procedural difference does not exist between male and female, and the gender is only related to the kind of karma. But from what I explained just above, I imply that female bhava must be attained by practice and ATTITUDE but does not come as a matter of procedure through panchagni vidya. The other thought that comes to my mind is about Amba who was born a female, as Sikandini. The usual expectation is that things could have been easier for her if only she were born a male. But as an after-thought we can see two reasons why she was born a female again. Only because she had been a female again, that anger against a male for having been treated badly, had been kept alive. If born a male, the anger might have still been there, but certainly not like how a woman had felt it. The harmones certainly could have made the difference. Again since she was a female, though changed into a male, Bheeshma could not retaliate in the war. If she was born a male, Bheeshma would have had no qualms in directly hitting such a man. These are just my guesses. if you have any explanation (or any others who read this have ) please come forth with them. -- > > I always used to think it is strain for the female to undergo such eleoberate procedures as women are considered to be delicate. however it is just physical aspect i was thinking. > > thank you > > pranamams > krishnapriya ----------------------------- No, the elaborate procedures before being born are not at all painful or to be endured. I think the male body becoming the last location before being born is in tune with how creation proceeded only from male as I quoted in the last mail. Scriptures say that the soul doesnot undergo any karma or repayment of karma until the 4th stage , i.e., in male's body. So that part is not an enduring one. The endurance starts only after birth.(But according to scriptures the soul is born the moment it enters the womb.) Here again, a survey (on Indian women) exists which says that women outlive men and they live long after their spouses are gone. Whereas men living long after the wife is gone, constitute a lesser percentage. This is particularly so with reference to losing the partner in old age or after having spent their lives considerably long. The men do not easily gel with others after his wife is gone. But a woman easily transforms herself and gels with some one (it usually exists even before) in the family. This is one of the facts about Indian women I have observed in my personal interactions with a number of them who have approached me for counsel through astro- reading. Women have stronger will power and can bring around things to their side. Even in today's corporate world they are the ones who cross through the glass roofs. Scientifically the corpus collosum joining the two spheres of the brain is thicker for females showing their prowess to use both sides of the brain effectively. What AndaL could achieve was something incomparable.That is why even our Kaliyan had to resort to Madal oordhal in female bhava to intimidate perumaL! Any comments? If you have doubts about what to do for Pithru tarpaNam if a person has only female issues, this is the reply. The repayment to them can begin only after the daughter's son gets to do pithru kaaryam. Until then the sincere thoughts for their well being can please them. It is by shraddha, by thoughts and sincere and genuine feelings for them they can fill up any gap in repayment. This is from my personal experience. Thanks and regards, jayasree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 shree: shreemathi jayashree ji; It is indeed nice of u to explain in detail again and again but i have no doubts pitru tarpnam done by males i wanted to know if there is any diffence between male and female soul since article said it starts with male so ends with male by doing tarpanam (Father to son and son to father ) so got doubt. one of the shows in jaya TV vadyar was asked by one celebrity as to y women r not allowed to do all these.He was unable to explain. Since that day i was in search of correct answer( in case i am asked i should explain convincingly not in tv channels but just in friendly discussions) I always had this doubts Aradhana in pooja form can't women do? In modern houses i do not find single man entering pooja room (i am talking about non- traditioanl houses) So, what if done by ladies without recitaion of vedic verses just step wise one after another how they generally Aradhana is performed. Who am i to go or say against upanishads such great scholarly ,saintly documents .Somehow i feel all r missing some nice things which we know so i express in this groups .I asked few whom i thought would answer other than you no one answered .(these type of questions )probably they have their own reservations which i do respect. thanking you pranamams krishnapriya Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan Nov 21, 2005 8:40 PM Re: namasthe krishna priya <krishna.neela2001 SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Dear Smt krishnapriya, As for your query, >>>>Oppiliappan, krishna priya <neelakrishna2001> wrote: > > > Actually what i wanted to know is even for female child to be born (From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know > that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born.) > the procedure must be same since soul does not have any sexdescrimination etc., etc., i suppose . > > I felt there has to be some other reason too .SO, i wanted to clarify regarding if the procedural difference exisits for female baby and male baby birth. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The reply is that there is no scriptural authority for different procedure for the birth of a female. The gender differentiation is to do with the knid of kind of karma that one has to undergo in the new birth. In this connection 2 things come to my mind. One is the well known description that since He is the Purusha, all the other jivas are the female counterparts yearning to attain Him. If you look at the past histories of so many bhakthas and mukhthas, only those in nayaka-nayaki bhava have easily realised Him, say, a Radha, AndaL, the muslim princess who kept with her Rama-p-priyan (known as Sampath humaran now at Melkote) and Mira. It is easy for the soul in female bhava to show Him the prEmai. The Krishna leela at Gokulam looks to me as a deliberate message by Bhagavan that He can be caught, He can be tied and attained only by such prEmai. He appeared with all the Gopikas at the same time, making each of them think that He is with that particular Gopika only. This is exactly what each soul on attaining Him (or even otherwise) think. He is with everybody, within everybody, at all times - but in one to one contact. It is only as a female one can truly enjoy Him with motherly affection too. In one of your previous mails you felt why the araadhana is prescribed to be done by males only. I have never felt like that. The kind of patience, care, concern and love we show to the members of the family can not be so easily replicated by the male members. We never feel hunger or thirst till our children and other members are taken of. That is why it has been said that even if the woman does not prostrate before God, but takes supreme care of her husband, she will attain the very best lokas. (remember the KuraL " deivam thozhAL, kozhuNan ...) The pancha bhoothas will obey her words! Here it is not about the supremacy of the male, but it is about the ATTITUDE that the woman has, by complete surrender of her interests or making her interests subordinate to the interests of her husband. Such kind of ATTITUDE in other words is bhakthi or devotion or love. To get such an attitude, the male must transform into a female:-) That is why I always think that He will wait for me till I finish my immediate chores of getting my kids ready and helping my husband finish his puja and other chores. Bhagavan will wait till I finish these chores. Sometimes when some interruptions are there, I used to tell Him, 'konjam wait paNNum. vElaiyai mudichchundu varEn.' I imagine Him to be the little krishna, the image I have seen in my kids when they used to wait for me to come from kitchen with the cup of saadham and impatiently peep into kitchen with the picture-book in their hands, for me to come soon and tell them the stories as I feed them. Likewise, Bhagavan will wait peeping out of perumaL sannidhi, to see whether we have come to attend to Him. He must be definitely relishing our puja, to listen to our aradhana which is not the same as what the men repeat everyday. There is variety in our aaradhana. Ours will be different, from pouring out day's happenings, to worries and happy things - every thing will be there - singing some new songs - He never comments on our songs as bad:-) I think He will relish the way we treat Him and interact with Him. It is by being in female ATTITUDE, He can be made easily pleased. So this comes by practice to a male. That is perhaps why, the foetus is like a female in the first few weeks and only later the differentiation appears. The procedural difference does not exist between male and female, and the gender is only related to the kind of karma. But from what I explained just above, I imply that female bhava must be attained by practice and ATTITUDE but does not come as a matter of procedure through panchagni vidya. The other thought that comes to my mind is about Amba who was born a female, as Sikandini. The usual expectation is that things could have been easier for her if only she were born a male. But as an after-thought we can see two reasons why she was born a female again. Only because she had been a female again, that anger against a male for having been treated badly, had been kept alive. If born a male, the anger might have still been there, but certainly not like how a woman had felt it. The harmones certainly could have made the difference. Again since she was a female, though changed into a male, Bheeshma could not retaliate in the war. If she was born a male, Bheeshma would have had no qualms in directly hitting such a man. These are just my guesses. if you have any explanation (or any others who read this have ) please come forth with them. -- > > I always used to think it is strain for the female to undergo such eleoberate procedures as women are considered to be delicate. however it is just physical aspect i was thinking. > > thank you > > pranamams > krishnapriya ----------------------------- No, the elaborate procedures before being born are not at all painful or to be endured. I think the male body becoming the last location before being born is in tune with how creation proceeded only from male as I quoted in the last mail. Scriptures say that the soul doesnot undergo any karma or repayment of karma until the 4th stage , i.e., in male's body. So that part is not an enduring one. The endurance starts only after birth.(But according to scriptures the soul is born the moment it enters the womb.) Here again, a survey (on Indian women) exists which says that women outlive men and they live long after their spouses are gone. Whereas men living long after the wife is gone, constitute a lesser percentage. This is particularly so with reference to losing the partner in old age or after having spent their lives considerably long. The men do not easily gel with others after his wife is gone. But a woman easily transforms herself and gels with some one (it usually exists even before) in the family. This is one of the facts about Indian women I have observed in my personal interactions with a number of them who have approached me for counsel through astro- reading. Women have stronger will power and can bring around things to their side. Even in today's corporate world they are the ones who cross through the glass roofs. Scientifically the corpus collosum joining the two spheres of the brain is thicker for females showing their prowess to use both sides of the brain effectively. What AndaL could achieve was something incomparable.That is why even our Kaliyan had to resort to Madal oordhal in female bhava to intimidate perumaL! Any comments? If you have doubts about what to do for Pithru tarpaNam if a person has only female issues, this is the reply. The repayment to them can begin only after the daughter's son gets to do pithru kaaryam. Until then the sincere thoughts for their well being can please them. It is by shraddha, by thoughts and sincere and genuine feelings for them they can fill up any gap in repayment. This is from my personal experience. Thanks and regards, jayasree Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. Oppiliappan FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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