[t'venkatam] [ramanuja] sandhyaa vandhanam - Bhishma's Answer

[Guest guest]

Dear member,

 

The "pramANam" from the Mahabharatham (MB) quoting Sri

BhishmAchAriar on "sandhyA" posted by Sri

M.G.Vasudevan is indeed a very wonderful one. Sri

Pattangi's observations (about "Sandhya" being a

"nityakarma" to be performed without any thought of

"returns" or personal profit like "long life" etc.)

are also equally valid.

 

How to reconcile the two? Are we to reject the

"pramaNam" of the MB? Or are we to go by the

inviolability of the Vedic tenet which says "sandhyA"

ritual as "nitya-karma" is to be performed without

expecting any "phalan" whatsoever?

 

After reading the wonderful MB account of Sri

BhishmAchAriar's expatiating on the "sandhyA" this is

what I am able to gather:

 

The powers of the 'sandhya-karma' and the 'gaayatri

mantra' are well documented in the Vedas and

"smriti-texts". Sincere and devoted practice of these

two daily sacraments amounts to "upAsana". Every Vedic

"upAsana", when devotedly practiced, day in and day

out, is bound to have a certain predictable outcome or

result, whether the "upAsaka" consciously wishes for

it or not. Any Vedic "karma" will yield its results

("phalan") no matter what. So when Bhishma says that

"sandhyA" and "gayatri" rites when performed

unfailingly bestow upon the practitioner "long life"

("deergAyush"), the venerable "pitAmahar's" words must

be taken as absolute truth.

 

The SriVaishnava faith too in all its wisdom fully

recognizes that SandhyA 'nityakarma' does inevitably

yield "phalan". But in SriVaishnavite religious

practice such "phalan" is also turned over to

"bhagath-preethi" i.e. such "phalan" is also offered

up as sacrificed at the altar of God's purpose. The

"upAsaka" thus specifically performs "phala-tyAga" at

the end of the "sandhyA" rite by invoking a special

"mantra" called "sAttvika-tyAgam". Through such

sacrificial offering of the fruits of the "sandhyA"

rite unto the Almighty, the "upAsaka" in effect says:

 

"I am regularly performing the "sandhya" ritual

mandated upon me by my Vedic faith. I know it will

fetch me all auspicious "phalan" like good health,

intelligence, long life, well-being etc. in life.

While thanking "gaayatri-devata" for her compassion to

me in granting me all such good things in life, I seek

her blessings again in enabling me to offer all of

such "fruits" as sacrifice once again to the Almighty!

May He accept my offerings and use them for His own

Purpose, Will and Pleasure".

 

All Vedic mantras pray every man should live out a

"long life" --- 100 years to be precise. In the

"sandhya" rite itself this is evident through those

significant phrases "jeevEma sharadha satam, nandAma

sharada satam, mOdhAma sharada satam, bhavAma sharadha

satam....etc". There are other "mantras" too like

"shatamAnam bhavathi satAyUsh purushas....".

 

We must ask why the Vedas wish for man to live out his

full biological life-span of 100 years. It is not for

mere "eating, drinking and making merry".

 

Human life has great, great potential for doing good

upon earth. It is within the power of Man to ensure

that the writ of the Kingdom of God runs in this

mortal world too. Man can ensure that "dharma"

prevails on earth and every being on this planet is

able to enjoy happiness, well-being, peace and love.

More than any other species on earth it is Man alone

("manushya-jAthi") who is well-equipped to carry out

God's purpose on earth.

 

Imagine for a moment how much goodness and happiness

can be created in the world if all men lived for 100

years doing God's work? Sankara lived for a mere 32

years. How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

Jesus lived for a mere 33 years. How much good he did

accomplish in that short span, indeed. Swami

Vivekananda lived for no more than 30 odd years. Yet

we know how much good he brought into the world. Sri

Parashara Bhattar lived for 32 years. Yet how much

goodness he spread around him in SriRangam! We should

pause for a moment to imagine how much more good all

these great souls might have accomplished in this

world if only they had lived a full 100 years?

 

Similarly, we should also always be mindful of how

much goodness great souls like Sri RamanujAchArya and

Swami Venkantanathan, who lived to be centenarians in

their own time, left behind them. We should be

grateful that such tall men walked this earth and

lived for 100 years to accomplish all that they did.

Gandhi lived for more than 80 years. Imagine how a

great "mahAtma" like him might have changed the course

of history for the better if only he had lived another

20 years!

 

So, the long and short of it all, is this: Yes, the

"sanhdhyA" does have its own special kind of "profit"

i.e. "phalan", and "deerghAyUsh" (long life) is

certainly one of them. One is enjoined to perform

"sandhyA" without selfish motive for personal "profit"

and one may not hence ask for a "100 years" of a

lifetime of gross self-gratification. But one may most

certainly ask, without being amiss, for a 100 long

years on earth of self-sacrifice ("sAtvika-tyAga"), a

100 years to serve and accomplish the Almighty's

purpose. No one can call that selfishness or

"kaamyArtham".

 

Both SrimAn Vasudevan and Pattangi are therefore

right. Both need to be thanked for bringing up this

interesting subject for discussion. They have shown us

what a treasure-house of truth and wisdom our ancient

"itihAsAs" and "purANas" are.

 

Regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

 

--- Pattangi <danp wrote:

 

> Sri:

> Dear Sri Vasudevan: Please accept adiyen's humble

> pranam.

> Very Nice article, well written:

> Adiyen would like to bring out a few factual points

> for discussion:

>

> 1: Almost all dwija Sri Vaishanvas who perform the

> SandhyaVandhanam> perform it as a Service to him

(Kainkariyam) or for> his pleasure > (Preethyartham),

> none of these devotees perform the Sandhya expecting

> any punyam/ benefit.

>

> 2: With respect to any Service to the LORD and his

> devotees (as > Preethyartham or Kainkariyam),

> if anyone starts performing ABC expecting back XYZ

> benefits, we are getting into a

> very slippery slope of business transactions, which

> is exactly opposite to what SriVaishanvam preaches/

stands for.

>

> 3: For the dwija SriVaishnavas, performing regular

> sandhya qualifies us to do> other Agni Karyams, Veda

Adhyayanam and other rituals.

>

> 4: Sandhya, other rituals, Love of GOD and devotees

> etc, No matter how much convincing any "Person" can

do> and will do, its only HIS will that will change

hearts and people.

>

> Given all these, there is no benefit that we seek

> from Sandya Vandanam and if one does that is it not

against SriVaishava principles.

>

> => At another location in the mail there is a QUOTE

> "One should wake up from sleep at the hour known as

> the Brahma Muhurtham and then think of both

religion and profit."

> ---- End Quote

>

> Thinking of profits seems contrary to what we might

> want to do during Brahma Muhurtham.

> > Please do not mistake these points

> > Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar ThiruvadigalE sharanam

> > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

> Mukundan Vangkipuram Pattangi

 

 

 

 

 

________

India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com

[Guest guest]

Dear member,

 

The "pramANam" from the Mahabharatham (MB) quoting Sri

BhishmAchAriar on "sandhyA" posted by Sri

M.G.Vasudevan is indeed a very wonderful one. Sri

Pattangi's observations (about "Sandhya" being a

"nityakarma" to be performed without any thought of

"returns" or personal profit like "long life" etc.)

are also equally valid.

 

How to reconcile the two? Are we to reject the

"pramaNam" of the MB? Or are we to go by the

inviolability of the Vedic tenet which says "sandhyA"

ritual as "nitya-karma" is to be performed without

expecting any "phalan" whatsoever?

 

After reading the wonderful MB account of Sri

BhishmAchAriar's expatiating on the "sandhyA" this is

what I am able to gather:

 

The powers of the 'sandhya-karma' and the 'gaayatri

mantra' are well documented in the Vedas and

"smriti-texts". Sincere and devoted practice of these

two daily sacraments amounts to "upAsana". Every Vedic

"upAsana", when devotedly practiced, day in and day

out, is bound to have a certain predictable outcome or

result, whether the "upAsaka" consciously wishes for

it or not. Any Vedic "karma" will yield its results

("phalan") no matter what. So when Bhishma says that

"sandhyA" and "gayatri" rites when performed

unfailingly bestow upon the practitioner "long life"

("deergAyush"), the venerable "pitAmahar's" words must

be taken as absolute truth.

 

The SriVaishnava faith too in all its wisdom fully

recognizes that SandhyA 'nityakarma' does inevitably

yield "phalan". But in SriVaishnavite religious

practice such "phalan" is also turned over to

"bhagath-preethi" i.e. such "phalan" is also offered

up as sacrificed at the altar of God's purpose. The

"upAsaka" thus specifically performs "phala-tyAga" at

the end of the "sandhyA" rite by invoking a special

"mantra" called "sAttvika-tyAgam". Through such

sacrificial offering of the fruits of the "sandhyA"

rite unto the Almighty, the "upAsaka" in effect says:

 

"I am regularly performing the "sandhya" ritual

mandated upon me by my Vedic faith. I know it will

fetch me all auspicious "phalan" like good health,

intelligence, long life, well-being etc. in life.

While thanking "gaayatri-devata" for her compassion to

me in granting me all such good things in life, I seek

her blessings again in enabling me to offer all of

such "fruits" as sacrifice once again to the Almighty!

May He accept my offerings and use them for His own

Purpose, Will and Pleasure".

 

All Vedic mantras pray every man should live out a

"long life" --- 100 years to be precise. In the

"sandhya" rite itself this is evident through those

significant phrases "jeevEma sharadha satam, nandAma

sharada satam, mOdhAma sharada satam, bhavAma sharadha

satam....etc". There are other "mantras" too like

"shatamAnam bhavathi satAyUsh purushas....".

 

We must ask why the Vedas wish for man to live out his

full biological life-span of 100 years. It is not for

mere "eating, drinking and making merry".

 

Human life has great, great potential for doing good

upon earth. It is within the power of Man to ensure

that the writ of the Kingdom of God runs in this

mortal world too. Man can ensure that "dharma"

prevails on earth and every being on this planet is

able to enjoy happiness, well-being, peace and love.

More than any other species on earth it is Man alone

("manushya-jAthi") who is well-equipped to carry out

God's purpose on earth.

 

Imagine for a moment how much goodness and happiness

can be created in the world if all men lived for 100

years doing God's work? Sankara lived for a mere 32

years. How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

Jesus lived for a mere 33 years. How much good he did

accomplish in that short span, indeed. Swami

Vivekananda lived for no more than 30 odd years. Yet

we know how much good he brought into the world. Sri

Parashara Bhattar lived for 32 years. Yet how much

goodness he spread around him in SriRangam! We should

pause for a moment to imagine how much more good all

these great souls might have accomplished in this

world if only they had lived a full 100 years?

 

Similarly, we should also always be mindful of how

much goodness great souls like Sri RamanujAchArya and

Swami Venkantanathan, who lived to be centenarians in

their own time, left behind them. We should be

grateful that such tall men walked this earth and

lived for 100 years to accomplish all that they did.

Gandhi lived for more than 80 years. Imagine how a

great "mahAtma" like him might have changed the course

of history for the better if only he had lived another

20 years!

 

So, the long and short of it all, is this: Yes, the

"sanhdhyA" does have its own special kind of "profit"

i.e. "phalan", and "deerghAyUsh" (long life) is

certainly one of them. One is enjoined to perform

"sandhyA" without selfish motive for personal "profit"

and one may not hence ask for a "100 years" of a

lifetime of gross self-gratification. But one may most

certainly ask, without being amiss, for a 100 long

years on earth of self-sacrifice ("sAtvika-tyAga"), a

100 years to serve and accomplish the Almighty's

purpose. No one can call that selfishness or

"kaamyArtham".

 

Both SrimAn Vasudevan and Pattangi are therefore

right. Both need to be thanked for bringing up this

interesting subject for discussion. They have shown us

what a treasure-house of truth and wisdom our ancient

"itihAsAs" and "purANas" are.

 

Regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

 

--- Pattangi <danp wrote:

 

> Sri:

> Dear Sri Vasudevan: Please accept adiyen's humble

> pranam.

> Very Nice article, well written:

> Adiyen would like to bring out a few factual points

> for discussion:

>

> 1: Almost all dwija Sri Vaishanvas who perform the

> SandhyaVandhanam> perform it as a Service to him

(Kainkariyam) or for> his pleasure > (Preethyartham),

> none of these devotees perform the Sandhya expecting

> any punyam/ benefit.

>

> 2: With respect to any Service to the LORD and his

> devotees (as > Preethyartham or Kainkariyam),

> if anyone starts performing ABC expecting back XYZ

> benefits, we are getting into a

> very slippery slope of business transactions, which

> is exactly opposite to what SriVaishanvam preaches/

stands for.

>

> 3: For the dwija SriVaishnavas, performing regular

> sandhya qualifies us to do> other Agni Karyams, Veda

Adhyayanam and other rituals.

>

> 4: Sandhya, other rituals, Love of GOD and devotees

> etc, No matter how much convincing any "Person" can

do> and will do, its only HIS will that will change

hearts and people.

>

> Given all these, there is no benefit that we seek

> from Sandya Vandanam and if one does that is it not

against SriVaishava principles.

>

> => At another location in the mail there is a QUOTE

> "One should wake up from sleep at the hour known as

> the Brahma Muhurtham and then think of both

religion and profit."

> ---- End Quote

>

> Thinking of profits seems contrary to what we might

> want to do during Brahma Muhurtham.

> > Please do not mistake these points

> > Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar ThiruvadigalE sharanam

> > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

> Mukundan Vangkipuram Pattangi

 

 

 

 

 

________

India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

 

Please don't dilute your great message.

>> How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

Jesus lived for a mere 33 years<<

You ar eright. If he had lived for 100 years, probably we would have been told

much earlier that we are devil worshippers condemned to eternal hell!

The ultra platinum truth is that we need to treat others as they

deserve to be treated!

 

dAsan

 

K.S. tAtAchAr

 

 

 

 

sudarshan madabushi <mksudarshan2002

tiruvenkatam; oppiliappan;

 

Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:46:01 +0000 (GMT)

Re: [t'venkatam] Re: [ramanuja] sandhyaa vandhanam -

Bhishma's Answer

 

 

 

Dear member,

 

The "pramANam" from the Mahabharatham (MB) quoting Sri

BhishmAchAriar on "sandhyA" posted by Sri

M.G.Vasudevan is indeed a very wonderful one. Sri

Pattangi's observations (about "Sandhya" being a

"nityakarma" to be performed without any thought of

"returns" or personal profit like "long life" etc.)

are also equally valid.

 

How to reconcile the two? Are we to reject the

"pramaNam" of the MB? Or are we to go by the

inviolability of the Vedic tenet which says "sandhyA"

ritual as "nitya-karma" is to be performed without

expecting any "phalan" whatsoever?

 

After reading the wonderful MB account of Sri

BhishmAchAriar's expatiating on the "sandhyA" this is

what I am able to gather:

 

The powers of the 'sandhya-karma' and the 'gaayatri

mantra' are well documented in the Vedas and

"smriti-texts". Sincere and devoted practice of these

two daily sacraments amounts to "upAsana". Every Vedic

"upAsana", when devotedly practiced, day in and day

out, is bound to have a certain predictable outcome or

result, whether the "upAsaka" consciously wishes for

it or not. Any Vedic "karma" will yield its results

("phalan") no matter what. So when Bhishma says that

"sandhyA" and "gayatri" rites when performed

unfailingly bestow upon the practitioner "long life"

("deergAyush"), the venerable "pitAmahar's" words must

be taken as absolute truth.

 

The SriVaishnava faith too in all its wisdom fully

recognizes that SandhyA 'nityakarma' does inevitably

yield "phalan". But in SriVaishnavite religious

practice such "phalan" is also turned over to

"bhagath-preethi" i.e. such "phalan" is also offered

up as sacrificed at the altar of God's purpose. The

"upAsaka" thus specifically performs "phala-tyAga" at

the end of the "sandhyA" rite by invoking a special

"mantra" called "sAttvika-tyAgam". Through such

sacrificial offering of the fruits of the "sandhyA"

rite unto the Almighty, the "upAsaka" in effect says:

 

"I am regularly performing the "sandhya" ritual

mandated upon me by my Vedic faith. I know it will

fetch me all auspicious "phalan" like good health,

intelligence, long life, well-being etc. in life.

While thanking "gaayatri-devata" for her compassion to

me in granting me all such good things in life, I seek

her blessings again in enabling me to offer all of

such "fruits" as sacrifice once again to the Almighty!

May He accept my offerings and use them for His own

Purpose, Will and Pleasure".

 

All Vedic mantras pray every man should live out a

"long life" --- 100 years to be precise. In the

"sandhya" rite itself this is evident through those

significant phrases "jeevEma sharadha satam, nandAma

sharada satam, mOdhAma sharada satam, bhavAma sharadha

satam....etc". There are other "mantras" too like

"shatamAnam bhavathi satAyUsh purushas....".

 

We must ask why the Vedas wish for man to live out his

full biological life-span of 100 years. It is not for

mere "eating, drinking and making merry".

 

Human life has great, great potential for doing good

upon earth. It is within the power of Man to ensure

that the writ of the Kingdom of God runs in this

mortal world too. Man can ensure that "dharma"

prevails on earth and every being on this planet is

able to enjoy happiness, well-being, peace and love.

More than any other species on earth it is Man alone

("manushya-jAthi") who is well-equipped to carry out

God's purpose on earth.

 

Imagine for a moment how much goodness and happiness

can be created in the world if all men lived for 100

years doing God's work? Sankara lived for a mere 32

years. How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

Jesus lived for a mere 33 years. How much good he did

accomplish in that short span, indeed. Swami

Vivekananda lived for no more than 30 odd years. Yet

we know how much good he brought into the world. Sri

Parashara Bhattar lived for 32 years. Yet how much

goodness he spread around him in SriRangam! We should

pause for a moment to imagine how much more good all

these great souls might have accomplished in this

world if only they had lived a full 100 years?

 

Similarly, we should also always be mindful of how

much goodness great souls like Sri RamanujAchArya and

Swami Venkantanathan, who lived to be centenarians in

their own time, left behind them. We should be

grateful that such tall men walked this earth and

lived for 100 years to accomplish all that they did.

Gandhi lived for more than 80 years. Imagine how a

great "mahAtma" like him might have changed the course

of history for the better if only he had lived another

20 years!

 

So, the long and short of it all, is this: Yes, the

"sanhdhyA" does have its own special kind of "profit"

i.e. "phalan", and "deerghAyUsh" (long life) is

certainly one of them. One is enjoined to perform

"sandhyA" without selfish motive for personal "profit"

and one may not hence ask for a "100 years" of a

lifetime of gross self-gratification. But one may most

certainly ask, without being amiss, for a 100 long

years on earth of self-sacrifice ("sAtvika-tyAga"), a

100 years to serve and accomplish the Almighty's

purpose. No one can call that selfishness or

"kaamyArtham".

 

Both SrimAn Vasudevan and Pattangi are therefore

right. Both need to be thanked for bringing up this

interesting subject for discussion. They have shown us

what a treasure-house of truth and wisdom our ancient

"itihAsAs" and "purANas" are.

 

Regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

 

--- Pattangi <danp wrote:

 

> Sri:

> Dear Sri Vasudevan: Please accept adiyen's humble

> pranam.

> Very Nice article, well written:

> Adiyen would like to bring out a few factual points

> for discussion:

>

> 1: Almost all dwija Sri Vaishanvas who perform the

> SandhyaVandhanam> perform it as a Service to him

(Kainkariyam) or for> his pleasure > (Preethyartham),

> none of these devotees perform the Sandhya expecting

> any punyam/ benefit.

>

> 2: With respect to any Service to the LORD and his

> devotees (as > Preethyartham or Kainkariyam),

> if anyone starts performing ABC expecting back XYZ

> benefits, we are getting into a

> very slippery slope of business transactions, which

> is exactly opposite to what SriVaishanvam preaches/

stands for.

>

> 3: For the dwija SriVaishnavas, performing regular

> sandhya qualifies us to do> other Agni Karyams, Veda

Adhyayanam and other rituals.

>

> 4: Sandhya, other rituals, Love of GOD and devotees

> etc, No matter how much convincing any "Person" can

do> and will do, its only HIS will that will change

hearts and people.

>

> Given all these, there is no benefit that we seek

> from Sandya Vandanam and if one does that is it not

against SriVaishava principles.

>

> => At another location in the mail there is a QUOTE

> "One should wake up from sleep at the hour known as

> the Brahma Muhurtham and then think of both

religion and profit."

> ---- End Quote

>

> Thinking of profits seems contrary to what we might

> want to do during Brahma Muhurtham.

> > Please do not mistake these points

> > Azhvar Emberumanar Jeeyar ThiruvadigalE sharanam

> > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

> Mukundan Vangkipuram Pattangi

 

 

 

 

 

________

India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear member,

 

Thank you for revealing the "ultra-platinum truth".

 

I have no desire for 'platinum' coating. Simple,

unadulterated truths will do just fine. I believe

there are plenty indeed to be found in all the great

religious scriptures of the world.... including the

Bible. If you don't mind, I shall stand by what I

wrote.

 

Best regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

--- tatachar wrote:

 

> Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

>

> Please don't dilute your great message.

> >> How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

> Jesus lived for a mere 33 years<<

> You ar eright. If he had lived for 100 years,

> probably we would have been told

> much earlier that we are devil worshippers condemned

> to eternal hell!

> The ultra platinum truth is that we need to treat

> others as they

> deserve to be treated!

>

> dAsan

>

> K.S. tAtAchAr

 

 

 

 

________

India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

 

If you don't mind the Bible calling you a heathen, eternally condemned

to hell

if you don't accept Jesus and only Jesus as the truth and the way,

fine.

I certainly mind, that is my call; just as your call to ignore that!

Just ask the authentic followers of the Bible (not Gandhi or RK mission

or confused desis) they will tell you the great truth it teaches you

(You don't need the first two lines or the fourth line, upadexanti te

gnAnam!).

 

I certainly have nothing to do with a Book which tells me that my

ancestors

including Nathamuni, Yamunamuni- all before them

and after them (such as Ramanujacharya, Swami Deshikar et al.,

who did not convert) are eternally in hell.

 

>>I believe there are plenty indeed to be found in all the great

religious scriptures of the world.... including the Bible. <<

 

Certainly there are. I have read every word of the Bible

and the Koran (the two staring to steer us!).

So why believe? I know you can read;

so it can be a matter of fact for you that they have

good things in them. That is not the point.

Do you believe that you may find something great

in them which you have not found in your own?

Do you know that they are (lot more) serious about their religion.

You take it all or leave it all. I will not mix them in the religious

context (I am not a Gandhian or running for

office in India or anywhere, or waiting to be called

what a good guy I am- atta boy!).

Remember, when you look at scriptures which people swear by,

you watch out more so for what is bad in them. After all we will not be

hurt by what is good in them!

 

If you still want to hold on to your conviction, who am I to say

it is incorrect. But the good news for you is that majority of

Hindus (Indians) are with you- that is also the sad part!

 

dAsan

 

K.S. tAtAchAr

 

 

sudarshan madabushi <mksudarshan2002

tatachar; tiruvenkatam;

oppiliappan;

Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:39:21 +0000 (GMT)

Re: Re: [t'venkatam] Re: [ramanuja] sandhyaa

vandhanam - Bhishma's Answer

 

Dear member,

 

Thank you for revealing the "ultra-platinum truth".

 

I have no desire for 'platinum' coating. Simple,

unadulterated truths will do just fine. I believe

there are plenty indeed to be found in all the great

religious scriptures of the world.... including the

Bible. If you don't mind, I shall stand by what I

wrote.

 

Best regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

--- tatachar wrote:

 

> Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

>

> Please don't dilute your great message.

> >> How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

> Jesus lived for a mere 33 years<<

> You ar eright. If he had lived for 100 years,

> probably we would have been told

> much earlier that we are devil worshippers condemned

> to eternal hell!

> The ultra platinum truth is that we need to treat

> others as they

> deserve to be treated!

>

> dAsan

>

> K.S. tAtAchAr

 

 

 

 

________

India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to

http://.shaadi.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

Links

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Tattachar,

 

Thank you for your vehement mail. Since I see no

useful purpose in engaging in further discussions on

the subject, let's leave the matter where it stands

now and move on.

 

Thanks and regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

--- tatachar wrote:

 

> Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

>

> If you don't mind the Bible calling you a heathen,

> eternally condemned

> to hell

> if you don't accept Jesus and only Jesus as the

> truth and the way,

> fine.

> I certainly mind, that is my call; just as your call

> to ignore that!

> Just ask the authentic followers of the Bible (not

> Gandhi or RK mission

> or confused desis) they will tell you the great

> truth it teaches you

> (You don't need the first two lines or the fourth

> line, upadexanti te

> gnAnam!).

>

> I certainly have nothing to do with a Book which

> tells me that my

> ancestors

> including Nathamuni, Yamunamuni- all before them

> and after them (such as Ramanujacharya, Swami

> Deshikar et al.,

> who did not convert) are eternally in hell.

>

> >>I believe there are plenty indeed to be found in

> all the great

> religious scriptures of the world.... including the

> Bible. <<

>

> Certainly there are. I have read every word of the

> Bible

> and the Koran (the two staring to steer us!).

> So why believe? I know you can read;

> so it can be a matter of fact for you that they have

> good things in them. That is not the point.

> Do you believe that you may find something great

> in them which you have not found in your own?

> Do you know that they are (lot more) serious about

> their religion.

> You take it all or leave it all. I will not mix them

> in the religious

> context (I am not a Gandhian or running for

> office in India or anywhere, or waiting to be called

> what a good guy I am- atta boy!).

> Remember, when you look at scriptures which people

> swear by,

> you watch out more so for what is bad in them. After

> all we will not be

> hurt by what is good in them!

>

> If you still want to hold on to your conviction, who

> am I to say

> it is incorrect. But the good news for you is that

> majority of

> Hindus (Indians) are with you- that is also the sad

> part!

>

> dAsan

>

> K.S. tAtAchAr

>

>

> sudarshan madabushi

> <mksudarshan2002

> tatachar; tiruvenkatam;

> oppiliappan;

>

> Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:39:21 +0000 (GMT)

> Re: Re: [t'venkatam] Re:

> [ramanuja] sandhyaa

> vandhanam - Bhishma's Answer

>

> Dear member,

>

> Thank you for revealing the "ultra-platinum truth".

>

> I have no desire for 'platinum' coating. Simple,

> unadulterated truths will do just fine. I believe

> there are plenty indeed to be found in all the great

> religious scriptures of the world.... including the

> Bible. If you don't mind, I shall stand by what I

> wrote.

>

> Best regards,

> dAsan,

> Sudarshan

>

>

> --- tatachar wrote:

>

> > Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

> >

> > Please don't dilute your great message.

> > >> How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

> > Jesus lived for a mere 33 years<<

> > You ar eright. If he had lived for 100 years,

> > probably we would have been told

> > much earlier that we are devil worshippers

> condemned

> > to eternal hell!

> > The ultra platinum truth is that we need to treat

> > others as they

> > deserve to be treated!

> >

> > dAsan

> >

> > K.S. tAtAchAr

>

>

>

>

>

________

> India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to

>

> http://.shaadi.com

>

>

>

>

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________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavatas:

There can be no comparison (or discussion in the same breath)between our

time-tested, million year old (if not, billion year old) Sanatana Dharma and the

new-found beliefs that have mushroomed in the past few hundred(may be, thousand)

odd years.

 

There is, perhaps, nothing that we have to learn from these that we do not find

in our own Sanatana Dharma.

 

That is probably why, our great Achaaryas, who were very much aware (during

their lifetime) of these so-called religions did not consider them as worthy of

even a discussion let alone, criticizing on the lines of "Sata-dooshaNi" or

"Para-mata-bhangam" dealing with other "Darsanas"

 

Again, another topic on which enough has been discussed!

May we close this discussion and move on?

 

Moderator

====================================================================

 

 

 

Dear Sudarshan Swamy

 

I would say majority of Hindus consider treating

another religion as equivalent to treating another

person as an individual. If that is the case, Swami

Desikan would not have ventured for Sadadushani. And

we would not have got the tradition of Vidwat Sadas to

argue religion in the olden days. Swami Desikan went

on to condemn the so called other religions, but to me

both Christinity and Islam do not qualify even to be

called a religion they are rather a political force.

 

There are so much of written and spoken records of how

the early Christianity preachers were rebuffed at all

the weakness of their concepts in Varanasi and

elsewhere in India peacefully. Both are imperialistic

and exclusionist concept and for sure the concepts

do not stand a chance even in the present Western

Society of freedom and liberty (even though it is

understood at physical level).

 

We don't hate any one for what religion /idiology they practise,

but for sure we argue in search of weakness not only in their's

but also to understand our own practices better. And that is

not the culture that these two so called religions practise.

 

I completely agree with Sri. Tatachar Swamy's point in

this regard. Only Desi's are confused and what was

alarming was one great Bhagawata who is highly

versatile on Srivaishnavam, Veda, Upanishad,

Prabandam etc from "Natathur Ammal" family echoed the

same words that Sri. Sudarshan Swami was saying. I had

to talk the same language what Sri Tatachar Swamy

spelled here.

 

I don't consider this as intolerance (if indeed that is

what is implied), rather understanding of what is worth

and rejection what is not worthy as food for the soul.

 

And I do belive that is the intention of Swamy Desikan too.

 

Adiyen

 

Suresh

 

--- tatachar wrote:

 

> Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

>

> If you don't mind the Bible calling you a heathen,

> eternally condemned

> to hell

> if you don't accept Jesus and only Jesus as the

> truth and the way,

> fine.

> I certainly mind, that is my call; just as your call

> to ignore that!

> Just ask the authentic followers of the Bible (not

> Gandhi or RK mission

> or confused desis) they will tell you the great

> truth it teaches you

> (You don't need the first two lines or the fourth

> line, upadexanti te

> gnAnam!).

>

> I certainly have nothing to do with a Book which

> tells me that my

> ancestors

> including Nathamuni, Yamunamuni- all before them

> and after them (such as Ramanujacharya, Swami

> Deshikar et al.,

> who did not convert) are eternally in hell.

>

> >>I believe there are plenty indeed to be found in

> all the great

> religious scriptures of the world.... including the

> Bible. <<

>

> Certainly there are. I have read every word of the

> Bible

> and the Koran (the two staring to steer us!).

> So why believe? I know you can read;

> so it can be a matter of fact for you that they have

> good things in them. That is not the point.

> Do you believe that you may find something great

> in them which you have not found in your own?

> Do you know that they are (lot more) serious about

> their religion.

> You take it all or leave it all. I will not mix them

> in the religious

> context (I am not a Gandhian or running for

> office in India or anywhere, or waiting to be called

> what a good guy I am- atta boy!).

> Remember, when you look at scriptures which people

> swear by,

> you watch out more so for what is bad in them. After

> all we will not be

> hurt by what is good in them!

>

> If you still want to hold on to your conviction, who

> am I to say

> it is incorrect. But the good news for you is that

> majority of

> Hindus (Indians) are with you- that is also the sad

> part!

>

> dAsan

>

> K.S. tAtAchAr

>

>

> sudarshan madabushi

> <mksudarshan2002

> tatachar; tiruvenkatam;

> oppiliappan;

>

> Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:39:21 +0000 (GMT)

> Re: Re: [t'venkatam] Re:

> [ramanuja] sandhyaa

> vandhanam - Bhishma's Answer

>

> Dear member,

>

> Thank you for revealing the "ultra-platinum truth".

>

> I have no desire for 'platinum' coating. Simple,

> unadulterated truths will do just fine. I believe

> there are plenty indeed to be found in all the great

> religious scriptures of the world.... including the

> Bible. If you don't mind, I shall stand by what I

> wrote.

>

> Best regards,

> dAsan,

> Sudarshan

>

>

> --- tatachar wrote:

>

> > Dear Sriman Sudarshan,

> >

> > Please don't dilute your great message.

> > >> How much good was accomplished by him indeed.

> > Jesus lived for a mere 33 years<<

> > You ar eright. If he had lived for 100 years,

> > probably we would have been told

> > much earlier that we are devil worshippers

> condemned

> > to eternal hell!

> > The ultra platinum truth is that we need to treat

> > others as they

> > deserve to be treated!

> >

> > dAsan

> >

> > K.S. tAtAchAr

>

>

>

>

>

________

> India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to

>

> http://.shaadi.com

Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>