Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 ---Dear Murali ,with respect, I , and I know some other members of the Group, practice Diving Into the Heart with or without breath retention .This is fully described in Sat Darshana Bhashya pages 104 ,107,108,109 and 126, a masterly commentary written by K under the guidance of Ganapati Muni and shown to Ramana for his approval This is based on the famous Eki Sloka given in the 40 verses,the Supplement,Ramana Gita, and Upadesa Sarum and mentioned often in Talks .This procedure can be experienced as a loosening of the Granthi Knot , removal of identification with thoughts and feelings , and the knowledge that one is going deeper and deeper to reach the source of the I thought .I have faith in this practice , and find it simple for the mind to carry out when so moved .I can feel it is gradually becoming more and more effective .Vasanas are coming out -subtle changes are happening .For those to whom this method fails to appeal , there is 1] Being Aware of Awareness, Holding onto the I thought , or the questioning of whatever thoughts and feelings may arise in the mind with discrimination [Who Am I?] .If one finds Self Enquiry difficult then one pointedness needs to be cultivated .Grace and effort go hand in hand .Many Devotees have Realised the Self through Self Enquiry and their reminiscenses are recorded in the Ramana Literature e.g. Power of the Presence Vols I-Vol III,and other books.So the Atma Vichara is not flawed .Anyone can begin by turning inward ,the guidance comes ,believe me .Self Enquiry is a joy and not a chore ..If one has a burning wish for freedom the way will be shown through this time honored method as described in the Yoga Vashista and other classics .So I am not a pessimist about Self Enquiry , but rather an enthusiastic practioner .I am sure many others share this view .Warmest regards and best wishes , in His Boundless Grace , Alan > > Noted your well put points. May I add a little more on that? > > We know, Bhagawan had categorically said that there is no > other "direct method" than self-enquiry. Throughout his life he kept > on suggesting this method to his "matured" devotees and encouraged > them to pursue it. Now, the question is, how many of them did succeed > in this endeavor? Even after persistent self-enquiry for 50-60 years > where did they stand? > > Was there anything lacking? > > Faith? Earnestness? Effort? > > Then what is the problem? > > And, if this had been the case of those who basked in the direct rays > of grace, what is the chance of you and me achieving (so to say) the > task? Or is it that the method itself is defective? > > Being a devotee, I cannot disbelieve Bhagawan's words. He himself is > the proof of what he preached. So it appears that there is something > more to self-enquiry than what we generally understand. > > Let me mention here what Bhagawan had said replying to a devotee's > inability to proceed in Self-enquiry - that "Manolaya" (stilling of > the mind) is all that you can achieve yourself by your effort (or end > of effort). For the ultimate realization, the Self has to annihilate > the individual ego which is not in your hand. > > What does this imply? This implies that all our efforts and their > effects are within the realm of mind only and can no way achieve a > result beyond the mind. This also implies that it is the "Self" which > realizes itself and not the individual self who is apparently making > the effort. > > Then why did Bhagawan propagate the theory of Self-enquiry as a > method? > > Note that Bhagawan had approved other methods as well, like japa > (chanting of divine names), meditation, yoga etc. but added that > ultimately everything would be culminated in Self-enquiry prior to > realization. This point can be stated in another way that PRIOR TO > REALIZATION, SELF-ENQUIRY WILL HAPPEN. > > So it was more like a description rather than prescription. A 'mind- > annihilating-self-enquiry' just happens. Nobody can make it happen. > > The tricky mind has the knack of making every thing a tool to > perpetuate itself. That's why one makes everything into methods, so > that the mind can get involved and nourish itself. > > So real self-enquiry is not a method, and nobody can DO that but it > happens by itself. All those stories of sounds, lights, silence or > peace experienced are nothing but experiences of the mind and have no > values at all except for the mind itself. > > And, effort or no-effort, the ultimate is not at all in our control. > Once this is understood thoroughly, one will find that the same is > the case with everything else in life, and it leaves one in a total > helpless situation. That helplessness may turn into acceptance, > freedom or surrender which in turn may trigger a process of dis- > identification. > > > These are just some conceptual understanding, which I thought, is > worth sharing and not intended to discourage anybody. > > Murali > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "ramana.bhakta" > <miles.wright@b...> wrote: > > om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya > > > > Dear Murali, > > > > Thank you for your interesting response. > > > > > If somebody is suggesting that doing 'sadhanas' (spiritual > practices) > > > will not take one anywhere, that implies more. > > > That, by the same token, not doing sadhanas also will not take one > > > anywhere. > > > And more importantly, doing 'sadhanas' will not stop something > that > > > is bound to happen. > > > > Indeed. > > Although a radio signal may be beamed out to one and all, only > those radios > > appropriately turned on, and tuned in, receive the signal. Sadhana > is only > > turning oneself on, and tuning in. Or should that be turning > oneself off to > > the incessant noise of the human condition. > > > > > That if apparent volitional efforts are being made by so called > > > seekers, even those are impersonal functioning irrespective of the > > > fact that the seeker thinks otherwise. So it is not an invitation > to > > > drop the efforts but continuing the effort with detachment - the > > > understanding (be it intellectual) that I am not the doer. > > > > Indeed. Strictly speaking one would think absolutely no effort is > needed. > > What does 'no effort' mean. It's bandied about in advaita > circles...but what > > is 'no effort'. Is it a hanger that those in the 'know' hang their > concepts > > on? In which case it means absolutely nothing. If we think all the > time and > > talk all the time we very quickly become interested only in our own > > egocentric well-trodden pathways. Nothing else matters. We become > besotted > > with the sound of our own internal, and external, voice. If I don't > shut up > > on occasion, I'll never hear what you say. No effort... > is 'shutting up'. > > This is what vichara is all about. 'Shutting up' on occasion. > Gradually this > > shutting up becomes a place of great joy. The sound of our own > voice becomes > > an anathema. Then the sound of Being, sabdabrahman, shines through. > One > > would think that shutting up would take no effort. Indeed this is > the case > > but paradoxically only after the intense effort of slowing down, and > > stopping, the full-steam ahead train of thought. > > > > Miles > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > Your use of is subject to > > ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.