Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---Dear Mallela, thanks for your interesting response .I will do my best .others may join . You wrote: Dear friends, > > Mike and Alan have addressed an intriguing facet of existence. In > moments when the mind is quiet (I can't take credit for it!) there is > a subtle feeling that thoughts, emotions and body movements are > constantly stirred up by some Invisible Force from within. But when > the mind is active, consciousness appears to be gripped in a vice and > taken on a roller coaster ride. In my experienc this is how it feels when their is a strong identification by the feelings with some outer concern . > > It appears that the feeling of individualistic identity and the > feeling that 'I" am the executor is imposed on this body by Somebody. You could say that from a relative point of view everything happens as a consequence of the will of the Higher Power -to make necessary things happen sometimes we have to be thrust into action ..it happens less and less as the Sadhana progresses.When we hand over all our concerns ,the identification with the outside and the mind's reactions becomes weaker because we know everything is looked after for the best -however challenging it may appear . > > I don't choose the quality of thoughts. I don't even know what > thought is next in line. I am not sure that I am consistently > rejecting certain types of thoughts. Acceptance and rejection of > thoughts happens in a jiffy. If the outcome appears to be > favourable,the mind says 'I" did it. If the outcome is > unfavourable 'It' looks for excuses. This is the action of the I thought,self-will ,ego or whatever you want to call it . > > Bhagvan likened the search for the 'Self' to a thief, dressed like a > policeman and trying to go out in search of the thief. > > If I try often to recollect that feeling I experienced, namely > everything inside and outside is driven by an Invisible Force, may be > that Force will hasten the process of decelerating the mind. May be > the Force will permit me to recollect this feeling more often, make > the feeling linger on long enough each time for thoughts to > temporarily cease and hopefully someday the inevitable to happen! Yes ,trust that Force which brought you to this teaching -it knows the way .You are in the jaws of the tiger -it will never let you go . > > May be this is the reason Bhagvan put a stop to most queries by > quizzing ' Find out who wants to know? Who is asking?' etc etc. Probably,to lead them to atma vichara ,away from speculative thought . > > If the mind can turn inwards to sincerely find an answer, thoughts > temporarily cease. Of course the day one finds an answer one stops > questioning. Absolutely -this is the purpose of atma vichara. > > May the blessings of Bhagvan guide us and lead us on the path! He will undoubtedly ! > Yours ,with every best wish and love , in His grace, Alan > > RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs > <alanadamsjacobs> wrote: > > Dear Mike, > > > > Thoughts come into the mind-seemingly from no where .Some are > accepted and acted upon -others are > > rejected as useless or unworthy by the 'I thought'or "me" .Who is > the executive ?The Inner > > Ruler-The Sat-Guru in the Heart-God-Iswara-Self-Consciousness - > Awareness ,the > > Friend,-Shakti-'That'-Your True Nature etc.The terms are somewhat > synonymous but with different > > shades of 'pointing at the 'unnameable' .See what term you resonate > best with.That may be the one > > for you . > > > > .I am interested in what others have to say . > > > > Best wishes, in His Grace, Alan > > > > > > > > > Thank you for replying > > > I am beginning to understand that I am not familiar with some of > the > > > conventions of language in this group and am getting tied up in > > > semantics. The contradiction I saw with putting on the kettle > etc; I > > > was meaning staying in awareness and putting on the kettle. If > SELF > > > is just an observer and ego does not exist, and body/mind is the > > > agent, then who is the executive?? who decided to put the kettle > on? > > > Not pure awareness, not non-existant ego-mind - what is left?? > > > regards Mike > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs > > > <alanadamsjacobs> wrote: > > > > --- Dear Mike, > > > > > > > > this is a serious question and I will do my best to answer from > my > > > own understanding.however I bow > > > > to others who may add to or correct what I am saying in the > light > > > of their own experience which > > > > may be deeper than mine. > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > > Last night I lay meditating as I do every night, first of all > > > > > thinking about the postings regarding Sandeep etc and then > quite > > > > > quickly getting to the place of no thoughts arising. Asking > > > myself > > > > > (is this a thought?) who is it that has no thoughts? > > > > > > > > This is a sound form of Self Enquiry > > > > > > > > I know from > > > > > previous times if I stay with no thoughts long enough then > > > eventually > > > > > the other 'noises' stop and there is a perfect silence which > > > usually > > > > > is very short lived. > > > > > > > > even this is a blessing -and a positive indication -no matter > how > > > short lived. > > > > > > > > After which I become disturbed or drift off to > > > > > sleep. > > > > > > > > quite common at the beginning of this practice when the I > thought > > > let's go . > > > > > > > > > > > > > But last night I tried to stay with who am I, who is having > no > > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > The answer I got at first was: 'Me obviously. It's me > > > > > here.' > > > > > > > > ok > > > > > > > > After that I realised that even the question was not coming > > > > > from me as I seem to be just an observer and each question > was > > > like a > > > > > cloud passing in the sky, not really eminating from me at all. > > > > > > > > the witnessing awareness appeared and saw the 'me' questionig. > ok > > > > > > > > So I > > > > > just watched the questions come and go. But then I come back > > > to 'who > > > > > is doing the watching?' I still seem to be just an observer, > > > > > > > > yes in the state of Self Enquiry awareness emerged as the > observer > > > or witness for you > > > > > > > > but > > > > > this contradicts my everyday experience of being able to > interact > > > > > with the world, (put the kettle on, drink tea etc.) > > > > > > > > No when functioning as an ajnani the 'me' functions.The > witnessing > > > consciousness has slipped back > > > > behinf the 'me'which is now unaware of its awareness.This is > why we > > > are told 'be aware of the > > > > awareness' > > > > > > > > If I am just an > > > > > observer then who is the agent interacting with world? > > > > > > > > answer is above.The me, which is unaware of its awareness . > > > > > > > > I understand > > > > > the concept of I (Self) and i (ego) but which is which and > what > > > do I > > > > > discard here? > > > > > > > > Simply begin by surrendering the i{ego]to the I [self or > > > Friend].Recognise your actions are an > > > > instrument of the Self not the 'doer'hand over the burden of > cares > > > to the Self and let the Self > > > > ibe responsible using you as instrument indicating what > actions to > > > take or not to take.the > > > > conflict is resolved . > > > > > > > > Am I getting ahead of myself here? > > > > > > > > No.Partial surrender is possible for all and leads to total > > > surrender eventually -so says the > > > > Maharshi . > > > > > > > > - ie I hold the > > > > > concept of the two I's as a belief ( in what Ramana said) but > > > have > > > > > not yet the experience to make sense of it myself. > > > > > > > > There is the Self- and the me ,at this stage an instrument of > the > > > Self.Eventually the impure me > > > > is vanquished by Self Enquiry[vasanas,egotism etc] and then > there > > > is no duality ,just spontaneous > > > > appropriate action . > > > > > > > > > Should I discard this belief? - are we not instructed not > hold > === message truncated === ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.