deep sleep awareness

[Guest guest]

please tell me what does Ramana mean by the background being

diferent in deep sleep than in samadhi, but they are the same?

 

---- Original Message -----

H:

> The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure

consciousness.

>

> Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom.

>

> How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the

purity of

> the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect.

>

> A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state will

be

> so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self.

>

> Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind.

>

> A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of

entering

> the deep sleep state while conscious.

>

> That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same mind,

but

> the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind.

>

> That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the

Mahavakyas.

>

 

> Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience while

> awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in all

states.

>

> Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the

sleep

> while awake.

>

> As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered

to

> some degree in association with the mind.

>

> Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of

Pure

> Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self..

[Guest guest]

RamanaMaharshi, "Era" <satkarta7@j...> wrote:

>

> please tell me what does Ramana mean by the background being

> diferent in deep sleep than in samadhi, but they are the same?

>

> ---- Original Message -----

> H:

> > The light of the Self is always there as It Self, as pure

> consciousness.

> >

> > Fully awake, it is the nature of freedom.

> >

> > How brightly the light of the Self is reflected depends on the

> purity of

> > the mind, and the subtlety of the intellect.

> >

> > A mind that is more or less unconscious during the awake state

will

> be

> > so in sleep as well and lie merged in the Self.

> >

> > Coming out of the Self, it is still the same mind.

> >

> > A mind that is becoming pure and aware has the possibility of

> entering

> > the deep sleep state while conscious.

> >

> > That is Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Coming out, it is still the same

mind,

> but

> > the Self recognizes It Self even in the presence of the mind.

> >

> > That is why aham Brahm Asmi (I Am the Self) is one of the

> Mahavakyas.

> >

>

> > Sri Ramana has pointed out that deep sleep must be experience

while

> > awake. The Realization is that that the Same Self is present in

all

> states.

> >

> > Only, the Self is experienced in its fullness if one enters the

> sleep

> > while awake.

> >

> > As long as the latent tendencies are strong, Self remains covered

> to

> > some degree in association with the mind.

> >

> > Self never fully loses sight of itself, its nature being that of

> Pure

> > Self-Sight. It Sees Only It Self..

 

 

I think I found something about the 'background' from Atamanada:

 

"After the sat, cit and ananda aspects have been examined, the next

prakriya investigates the changeless background of all change and

difference.

 

As the world appears, to anyone, it is shown in seeming pictures --

physical, sensual and mental. These are pictures that have been

created

by changing acts of perception and conception, through our bodies and

our minds. As our minds and bodies differ, so too their acts of

picturing get to be different as well. The differences produce a

great

variety of pictures -- at different times and places, and in

different

cultures and personalities.

 

But in the end, each picture must arise from the same complete

reality

of physical and mental world -- which includes all times and places,

together with all cultures and all personalities. Whatever picture

may

appear -- of anything or to anyone -- that complete reality is always

implied, in the background of the picturing.

 

Each apparent picture is portrayed at the foreground of experience,

by

some act of picturing. This very act must express the reality from

which it has arisen. That expressed reality is quietly implied. It

stands utterly unpictured in the background, while changing pictures

are portrayed on the seeming surface of the mind's attention.

 

Accordingly, reality can be approached as a background screen, on

which

all pictures of the world are drawn. The screen is in itself

unpictured -- remaining everywhere the same, never varying at all. In

this sense, of standing changeless underneath, that background is

called 'sat' or 'existence'.

 

But that background is no object in the world. Each object is a

pictured element, appearing on the background screen. And each such

element is lit by consciousness. The knowing light of consciousness

is

present through all pieces of the picturing. Throughout all varied

pieces of the pictured show, that light stays present with the

screen.

 

The pictured pieces change and vary; but their background and their

knowing light stay present always, throughout all the changes and the

differences. There is no way of distinguishing between that

background

reality and the knowing light of consciousness. The two cannot be

told

apart. They are in fact identical. The background screen is light

itself, illuminating all its pictures from behind.

 

The pictures are all made of light. As they show, they shine by that

light, which illuminates itself. In this sense, as self-illuminating

light, the reality is called 'cit' or 'consciousness'.

 

As the pictures come and go, they all arise expressing consciousness,

from which they come. That expression is their life, which animates

their changing movement. From it comes all their sense of purpose and

meaning and value.

 

In the end, all pictured acts are done for the sake of consciousness,

which they express. As it knows itself, in identity, it shines

non-dually -- identical with the reality of each picture that it

lights. By that non-dual shining, all actions in our pictures are

inspired to take place, spontaneously and naturally, of their own

accord.

 

For that non-dual shining is the happiness that is uncovered when

desire is fulfilled. The wanting mind is dual, feeling need for

something else. When what's wanted is obtained, the self that knows

is

felt to be at one with what has come about. The wanting mind's

duality

has there been brought to rest, dissolved into a non-duality that is

its real motivation. In this sense, as that which is ultimately

valued,

the reality is called 'ananda' or 'happiness'.

 

The background is thus 'sat-cit-ananda'. As 'sat', it is the

background

of all objects and objective acts. As 'cit', it is the background of

all thoughts and ideas. As 'ananda', it is the background of all

feelings and all values. But then, how can it be investigated,

beneath

the pictures that appear to cover it? A way is suggested in Shri

Atmananda's eighth and ninth points for sadhana. The eighth point

says:

 

"In between two mentations and in deep sleep, I am shining in my own

glory. Even the ego is not there."

 

Here, the idea is to look carefully at the gaps in our picturing of

the

apparent world. There, in the gaps, when they are properly examined,

the background may be found uncovered, shining by itself.

 

In deep sleep, the gap is obvious, because it corresponds to a gap in

physical time, seen from the waking state. But there is also a less

obvious gap -- which need not take any physical time, and which

usually

passes quite unnoticed. This is the gap that keeps taking place in

the

mind, whenever a perception, thought or feeling comes to end.

 

At this point of time -- just after each mentation disappears and

just

before the next appears -- there is a timeless gap, in which the mind

has returned to dissolution in its shining background. In that gap,

as

in deep sleep, the ego is dissolved and the real self is

found 'shining

in its own glory'.

 

Taking note of that gap shows the background positively, as that true

and positive reality of each object and each action that appears.

What

makes this prakriya so positive is that the gap can be seen to keep

occurring all the time. It occurs before and after every moment -- as

each present moment rises from the dissolution of what went before,

and

as this moment in its turn dissolves into a timeless shining out of

which the next succeeding moment is then born.

 

Thus, whatever may appear is shown to rise immediately from the

shining

background, which provides both knowing light and continuing support.

And with the same immediacy, what rises into show is then returned to

that same background, which stays present quite unchanged. This is

described in Shri Atmananda's ninth point for sadhana:

 

"Because thoughts and feelings rise in me (consciousness), abide in

me

and subside in me, they are myself."

 

Here, it is suggested how all thoughts and feelings keep on pointing

back to a positive reality, which is beyond their fitful appearances

in

changing mind. They point back by their natural and spontaneous

returning to dissolve in that reality -- where they keep expiring, at

every moment that we know.

 

How and where is this prakriya described in traditional and ancient

texts? I must confess to not having much of an answer. Perhaps some

group members could help out. I can only give a few preliminary

indications, which are appended below, as a postscript."