Karma - play and progress

[Guest guest]

Dear Shiv Bhakta,

 

At the risk of lengthening an already lengthy thread, I would like to

share my shallow ignorance on the matter.

 

Why worry about karma and the next life and all these other pieces of

furniture?

 

If you are feeling good, solid and peaceful, what more do you need to

know? My goal and journey is peace. It is very simple. I was a

student of the karma theory for a while and then BOOM one day I got a

taste of Peace in the presence of a great being. If you can get a taste

of this dimension all your questions will cease and your remaining quest

will be to attain this Peace 24 x 7. Self inquiry will happen by

itself.

 

However, what is not so simple is the 10,000 thoughts and tendencies

that cycle through my mind each minute. So the answer to that is go on

keeping quiet. Don't leave the docking state. The battery, the

computer has a power source. When you leave that power source, you get

drained. But when you are connected to the Source you are not drained.

This is Samadhi, in my very shallow understanding.

 

Don't worry about the damn karmic forces. They and Superman are fit for

the comic books. The real superhero is in you, now take off that shirt

and fly, baby, fly! It's a bird, it's an airplane, no it's the

meditating advaitin :-)

 

People don't seek God or Peace unless they are struck by thunder or

lightning. This is the "unconscious path of growth". I am working on a

PhD on this discipline. No matter how hard Gurus work to help me, I

keep trying to fail their efforts. Contrary to what I practice, I would

like to preach to you to take the "conscious path to growth" where you

do not fear but invite your karma and all of your self, past, present

and future to show up in this instant. Don't be afraid of anything, let

everything arise and you will see that it is nothing. What arises, also

falls, just watch the stock market if you don't believe me. Unless of

course we are dealing with Microsoft, whereby all karma theories fail.

Also with Warren Buffet all karma theories fail, he picks the good

stocks every time.

 

I digress, but what I am trying to say is take it easy, and don't try to

save your 401k plan for next lifetime. Instead spend it all NOW, have a

party, and spend your kid's inheritance right NOW. If you live in the

NOW and recognize that the future is an illusion, and that the past also

is just an idea, karma will not have any hold over your consciousness.

It will show up just like the weather conditions, but you needn't commit

suicide just because it rained straight for 3 months. Drink more coffee

when that happens, like they do in Seattle. Seek the soul, seek God,

seek Peace, seek the final seeking with all your might and don't talk

about anything else to me. Unless of course it's NFL season.

 

It appears to me that consulting astrologers, etc. on such things and

then wearing the appropriate stones, trinkets, etc. is not a bad thing.

However, it is addressing the "problem" at a superficial level. If this

satisfies you, go for it, spend your entire fortune on this. But for me

I have to dive deep within and seek the pearl of peace. It does not

hurt to follow such advice in "practical" matters. But really, do you

think that your soul, that the deepest part of your being is affected or

amused by any of this. I don't think so. That deepest part of me is

very, very quiet and through that quiet all else emerges. If you go to

a teacher in kindergarten and ask them to describe the origins of the

universe, versus if you ask Stephen Hawking, you are likely to get two

different answers. When dealing with the soul, don't spend your fortune

on people selling trinkets. Trinkets will buy you more trinkets, not

peace. You ain't gonna feng shui your mind into Peace, baby! But your

house will sure feel much better.

 

Peace has to be earned through earnestness. Sangharsh, struggle is

something that we cannot be afraid of, if we are to remain in this state

finally and forever. Most people though are not ready for such

discomfort, and for them the trinkets of stones, rudrakshas and

talismans are necessary. I too have many such objects, but when I enter

quietness I let go of all this and ask the Divine Father to bring

everything to the stage. Let me see the dance of Life and see how

horrible it can be. I am not afraid. This kind of sankalpa, resolve is

what is needed and what seems to save my neck every time the weather

conditions (read "karma") get "bad". Simply be still. Or go climb a

mountain. The path that appeals to you will be known only to you or to

a guru, all my words here are a waste of cyberspace.

 

In my childhood I used to do Japa and chant stotrams of different Gods,

etc. but it was on the advice of various priests. Perhaps that stage

was useful in developing some sense of bhakti. But I can assure you

that I did it all out of fear and it did not appear to appease my

anxiety which really was worse than all the "bad" things happening in my

life. In other words, my inner attitude was making things much worse

than they already were. At some point I learnt about the power of

positive thinking and later I learnt about keeping quiet, which I am

doing a great job of demonstrating right now in this message :-)!

Regardless, for me it is these inner qualities and not the prostrations

to some planet or devata that have made a real qualitative improvement

in my life. But staying dedicated to keeping quiet takes a strong

commitment. Bhakti is not some chess game where we try to maximize each

move, it is a passionate and final and overwhelming desire to reach the

Beloved on the other side which of course Ramana says abides in You as

You. So engage in this with passion, with abandon, not with

calculation.

 

Perhaps it is best to not compare the bhakti of trinkets and the bhakti

of finally letting go everything. Perhaps they both have their place in

our lives. It all depends on which league we are playing in. In case I

am wrong, O Dear Saturn please do not curse me, I beg you, I promise to

chant your name every day while brushing my teeth :-). Anyway, I ain't

the Big Guy in the Sky, I'm just another dude who thinks he's got it

right until he gets dunked by the next big wave.

 

With best wishes to all the idiots and geniuses on the Path,

 

Ashish

 

 

 

Message: 2

Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:50:53 -0800

"Shiva Bhakta" <shivabhakta

Karma - play and progress

 

This question has bothered me for quite some time. Please read this and

provide your enlightened perspectives...please

 

Our human body is inhibited and hindered by karmic forces that we bring

to our current life from previous lives.

The good, bad, ugly deeds from lives before have to play out in our

current life - after all it is all a path, a journey - that we need to

pass through.

 

Thus, the destiny - astrological stars - that we are born with - enforce

their will on our lives - seemingly dictated by these very karmic

forces.

For spiritual growth - for us to progress in our journey, it seems clear

that we shouldn't mess with these karmic forces, but bear

the consequences - accept unequivocally the good and the bad. That is

the key for our progress

 

But, in case we attemtp to fix the bad because we are unable to bear the

'pains' - through mantras, stones, rudrakshas, poojas etc etc. - does

it postpone the karmic play, to maybe our next life? Does this still

play out in some other form in our current life?

 

Are we hindering our progress by trying to fix the bad?

 

I do feel quite strongly that our karma should be left to play out and

that will help lead to spiritual growth.

 

Please do share your experiences in this...

 

Shiva Bhakta

http://www.jyotirlinga.com

[Guest guest]

albertAshish Mahajan <ash.mahajan (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote:

Dear Shiv Bhakta,At the risk of lengthening an already lengthy thread, I would

like toshare my shallow ignorance on the matter.Why worry about karma and the

next life and all these other pieces offurniture?If you are feeling good, solid

and peaceful, what more do you need toknow? My goal and journey is peace. It

is very simple. I was astudent of the karma theory for a while and then BOOM

one day I got ataste of Peace in the presence of a great being. If you can get

a tasteof this dimension all your questions will cease and your remaining

questwill be to attain this Peace 24 x 7. Self inquiry will happen

byitself.However, what is not so simple is the 10,000 thoughts and

tendenciesthat cycle through my mind each minute. So the answer to that is go

onkeeping quiet. Don't

leave the docking state. The battery, thecomputer has a power source. When you

leave that power source, you getdrained. But when you are connected to the

Source you are not drained.This is Samadhi, in my very shallow

understanding.Don't worry about the damn karmic forces. They and Superman are

fit forthe comic books. The real superhero is in you, now take off that

shirtand fly, baby, fly! It's a bird, it's an airplane, no it's themeditating

advaitin :-)People don't seek God or Peace unless they are struck by thunder

orlightning. This is the "unconscious path of growth". I am working on aPhD

on this discipline. No matter how hard Gurus work to help me, Ikeep trying to

fail their efforts. Contrary to what I practice, I wouldlike to preach to you

to take the "conscious path to growth" where youdo not fear but invite your

karma and all of your self, past,

presentand future to show up in this instant. Don't be afraid of anything,

leteverything arise and you will see that it is nothing. What arises,

alsofalls, just watch the stock market if you don't believe me. Unless

ofcourse we are dealing with Microsoft, whereby all karma theories fail.Also

with Warren Buffet all karma theories fail, he picks the goodstocks every

time.I digress, but what I am trying to say is take it easy, and don't try

tosave your 401k plan for next lifetime. Instead spend it all NOW, have

aparty, and spend your kid's inheritance right NOW. If you live in theNOW and

recognize that the future is an illusion, and that the past alsois just an

idea, karma will not have any hold over your consciousness.It will show up just

like the weather conditions, but you needn't commitsuicide just because it

rained straight for 3 months. Drink more coffeewhen that happens, like they do

in Seattle. Seek the soul, seek God,seek Peace, seek the final seeking with all

your might and don't talkabout anything else to me. Unless of course it's NFL

season.It appears to me that consulting astrologers, etc. on such things

andthen wearing the appropriate stones, trinkets, etc. is not a bad

thing.However, it is addressing the "problem" at a superficial level. If

thissatisfies you, go for it, spend your entire fortune on this. But for meI

have to dive deep within and seek the pearl of peace. It does nothurt to

follow such advice in "practical" matters. But really, do youthink that your

soul, that the deepest part of your being is affected oramused by any of this.

I don't think so. That deepest part of me isvery, very quiet and through that

quiet all else emerges. If you go toa teacher in kindergarten and ask them to

describe the origins of theuniverse, versus if you

ask Stephen Hawking, you are likely to get twodifferent answers. When dealing

with the soul, don't spend your fortuneon people selling trinkets. Trinkets

will buy you more trinkets, notpeace. You ain't gonna feng shui your mind into

Peace, baby! But yourhouse will sure feel much better.Peace has to be earned

through earnestness. Sangharsh, struggle issomething that we cannot be afraid

of, if we are to remain in this statefinally and forever. Most people though

are not ready for suchdiscomfort, and for them the trinkets of stones,

rudrakshas andtalismans are necessary. I too have many such objects, but when

I enterquietness I let go of all this and ask the Divine Father to

bringeverything to the stage. Let me see the dance of Life and see howhorrible

it can be. I am not afraid. This kind of sankalpa, resolve iswhat is needed

and what seems to save my neck every time the

weatherconditions (read "karma") get "bad". Simply be still. Or go climb

amountain. The path that appeals to you will be known only to you or toa guru,

all my words here are a waste of cyberspace.In my childhood I used to do Japa

and chant stotrams of different Gods,etc. but it was on the advice of various

priests. Perhaps that stagewas useful in developing some sense of bhakti. But

I can assure youthat I did it all out of fear and it did not appear to appease

myanxiety which really was worse than all the "bad" things happening in mylife.

In other words, my inner attitude was making things much worsethan they already

were. At some point I learnt about the power ofpositive thinking and later I

learnt about keeping quiet, which I amdoing a great job of demonstrating right

now in this message :-)!Regardless, for me it is these inner qualities and not

the prostrationsto some planet or

devata that have made a real qualitative improvementin my life. But staying

dedicated to keeping quiet takes a strongcommitment. Bhakti is not some chess

game where we try to maximize eachmove, it is a passionate and final and

overwhelming desire to reach theBeloved on the other side which of course

Ramana says abides in You asYou. So engage in this with passion, with abandon,

not withcalculation.Perhaps it is best to not compare the bhakti of trinkets and

the bhaktiof finally letting go everything. Perhaps they both have their place

inour lives. It all depends on which league we are playing in. In case Iam

wrong, O Dear Saturn please do not curse me, I beg you, I promise tochant your

name every day while brushing my teeth :-). Anyway, I ain'tthe Big Guy in the

Sky, I'm just another dude who thinks he's got itright until he gets dunked by

the next big wave.With best wishes to

all the idiots and geniuses on the Path,AshishMessage: 2 Tue, 30 Dec

2003 02:50:53 -0800 "Shiva Bhakta" <shivabhakta (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>Subject:

Karma - play and progressThis question has bothered me for quite some time.

Please read this andprovide your enlightened perspectives...pleaseOur human

body is inhibited and hindered by karmic forces that we bringto our current

life from previous lives.The good, bad, ugly deeds from lives before have to

play out in ourcurrent life - after all it is all a path, a journey - that we

need topass through.Thus, the destiny - astrological stars - that we are born

with - enforcetheir will on our lives - seemingly dictated by these very

karmicforces.For spiritual growth - for us to progress in our journey, it seems

clearthat we shouldn't mess with these karmic forces, but bearthe consequences -

accept

unequivocally the good and the bad. That isthe key for our progressBut, in case

we attemtp to fix the bad because we are unable to bear the'pains' - through

mantras, stones, rudrakshas, poojas etc etc. - doesit postpone the karmic play,

to maybe our next life? Does this stillplay out in some other form in our

current life?Are we hindering our progress by trying to fix the bad? I do feel

quite strongly that our karma should be left to play out andthat will help lead

to spiritual growth.Please do share your experiences in this...Shiva

Bhaktahttp://www.jyotirlinga.com Post message:

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