Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Ben: Here's the solution to your problems. RamanaMaharshi, "Ben Hassine" <ben.hassine@x> wrote: > Dear Jim, > > So if you know this, why come and argue here? Who is asking this question? > You are not interested in what people here kindly point out. You go around > in all these lists merely to argue. Who is saying "You are not interested" and "You go around....."? > > Also I don't like the way you approach Alan. Who doesn't like? Who cares? Using Ramana's formula for self-realizaiton the answer would be: Me, I, Gabriele! I care! Then you ask yourself: Who is this me, this Gabriele that cares? Am I really Gabriele? Am I really this person, this me? Am I this individual/body/mind/personality, ego, thing, entity, object - known as Gabriele? If yes, abide as a person. If no, abide as that which is not a person/body/mind/etc. (From another post): What, in your own personal or otherwise experience, happens after the final question: Who am I? Ramesh S. Balsekar: For whom? That is the whole point, Gary. The question – Who is Gary? The answer – There is no Gary! Ramesh: Gary, the ego, doesn't exist. If Gary doesn't exist then what exists? Only the Source. Source is all there is. Ask yourself who cares; Who is doing, thinking, feeling, reacting, complaining, questioning, etc. as often as you can and a time may come when you suddenly know that you are not a person/body/mind/ego and never was, and that the person, etc. that you took yourself for does not now or ever did exist - except as an image/concept in your own mind. When you stop believing in the personal object you have believed yourself to be since very early childhood, it will vanish and that which you are will remain. Things will be much better for you after that blessed remembrance. good luck, jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I see no flaw of logic in Jim's arguments. Perhaps, though, there is one of imprudence. A great sage was asked by his disciple, why -since he was beyond karma and it no longer mattered whether his actions were 'good' or 'evil': "Why do you choose the path of 'good' action, when it no longer matters?" The sage replied: "Because it doesn't matter". At the stage where the necessity sometimes to choose the right but unpleasing over the wrong but pleasing has ceased,something in the nature of humanity will always gravitate to the simple trusted pattern of 'appropriate' behaviour after it is no longer necessary. Ramana gave an example in reply to a question; since the world is imaginary and not our responsibility, what reason is there to behave in other than a callous manner to its immediate needs around us? If in a dream, all except we are starving and we have bread, why not machine-gun them? No reason at all, provided one really can live with the imaginary guilt, imaginary prison term, etc. In other words, we should exert effort to pretending the world is real, and acting as if it were. A dream is only a dream; but who enjoys nightmares? Nasrudin --- jim37rich <jim37rich wrote: Ben: Here's the solution to your problems. RamanaMaharshi, "Ben Hassine" <ben.hassine@x> wrote: > Dear Jim, > > So if you know this, why come and argue here? Who is asking this question? > You are not interested in what people here kindly point out. You go around > in all these lists merely to argue. Who is saying "You are not interested" and "You go around....."? > > Also I don't like the way you approach Alan. Who doesn't like? Who cares? Using Ramana's formula for self-realizaiton the answer would be: Me, I, Gabriele! I care! Then you ask yourself: Who is this me, this Gabriele that cares? Am I really Gabriele? Am I really this person, this me? Am I this individual/body/mind/personality, ego, thing, entity, object - known as Gabriele? If yes, abide as a person. If no, abide as that which is not a person/body/mind/etc. (From another post): What, in your own personal or otherwise experience, happens after the final question: Who am I? Ramesh S. Balsekar: For whom? That is the whole point, Gary. The question – Who is Gary? The answer – There is no Gary! Ramesh: Gary, the ego, doesn't exist. If Gary doesn't exist then what exists? Only the Source. Source is all there is. Ask yourself who cares; Who is doing, thinking, feeling, reacting, complaining, questioning, etc. as often as you can and a time may come when you suddenly know that you are not a person/body/mind/ego and never was, and that the person, etc. that you took yourself for does not now or ever did exist - except as an image/concept in your own mind. When you stop believing in the personal object you have believed yourself to be since very early childhood, it will vanish and that which you are will remain. Things will be much better for you after that blessed remembrance. good luck, jim Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi RamanaMaharshi/ RamanaMaharshi Terms of Service. http://greetings..au - Greetings Send your love online with Greetings - FREE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Reality is Love. When Reality or Love is realised as your true nature, your being, you see the world as Reality, as Love. The world of separation is seen as a dream. Actions will spontaneously arise from that undivided Reality, which again is Love. There will be no more division, all is seen as One. In this case all action will have the stamp of Love imprinted on it. Love doesn't need machineguns. It is the illusion of separation that needs them. Yours, Ben. - "Nasrudin" <nasrudin3 <RamanaMaharshi> Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:55 AM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Ben's solution > I see no flaw of logic in Jim's arguments. Perhaps, > though, there is one of imprudence. > A great sage was asked by his disciple, why -since he > was beyond karma and it no longer mattered whether his > actions were 'good' or 'evil': > "Why do you choose the path of 'good' action, when it > no longer matters?" > The sage replied: "Because it doesn't matter". > > At the stage where the necessity sometimes to choose > the right but unpleasing over the wrong but pleasing > has ceased,something in the nature of humanity will > always gravitate to the simple trusted pattern of > 'appropriate' behaviour after it is no longer > necessary. > Ramana gave an example in reply to a question; since > the world is imaginary and not our responsibility, > what reason is there to behave in other than a callous > manner to its immediate needs around us? > If in a dream, all except we are starving and we have > bread, why not machine-gun them? > No reason at all, provided one really can live with > the imaginary guilt, imaginary prison term, etc. In > other words, we should exert effort to pretending the > world is real, and acting as if it were. A dream is > only a dream; but who enjoys nightmares? > > Nasrudin > > --- jim37rich <jim37rich wrote: > > Ben: > > Here's the solution to your problems. > > RamanaMaharshi, "Ben Hassine" > <ben.hassine@x> > wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > > > So if you know this, why come and argue here? > > Who is asking this question? > > > > You are not interested in what people here kindly > point out. You go > around > > in all these lists merely to argue. > > Who is saying "You are not interested" and "You go > around....."? > > > > > > Also I don't like the way you approach Alan. > > Who doesn't like? Who cares? > > > Using Ramana's formula for self-realizaiton the answer > would be: > Me, I, Gabriele! I care! > Then you ask yourself: Who is this me, this Gabriele > that cares? Am > I really Gabriele? Am I really this person, this me? > Am I this > individual/body/mind/personality, ego, thing, entity, > object - known > as Gabriele? > > If yes, abide as a person. > > If no, abide as that which is not a > person/body/mind/etc. > > (From another post): > What, in your own personal or otherwise experience, > happens after the > final question: Who am I? > > Ramesh S. Balsekar: For whom? That is the whole > point, Gary. The > question - Who is Gary? The answer - There is no > Gary! > > Ramesh: Gary, the ego, doesn't exist. If Gary doesn't > exist then > what exists? Only the Source. Source is all there is. > > > Ask yourself who cares; Who is doing, thinking, > feeling, reacting, > complaining, questioning, etc. as often as you can and > a time may > come when you suddenly know that you are not a > person/body/mind/ego > and never was, and that the person, etc. that you took > yourself for > does not now or ever did exist - except as an > image/concept in your > own mind. When you stop believing in the personal > object you have > believed yourself to be since very early childhood, it > will vanish > and that which you are will remain. Things will be > much better for > you after that blessed remembrance. > > > > > good luck, > > jim > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: > RamanaMaharshi- > Un: > RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > Links > > > RamanaMaharshi/ > > > RamanaMaharshi > > > Terms of Service. > > > http://greetings..au - Greetings > Send your love online with Greetings - FREE! > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > Links > > > RamanaMaharshi/ > > > RamanaMaharshi > > Your > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 --- Ben Hassine <ben.hassine wrote: SNIP > Love doesn't need machineguns. It is the illusion of > separation that needs > them. > > Yours, > > Ben. > Dear Ben, There is a time for the gun. Sometimes an entity needs to be put out of its misery for the sake of "love". Love, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 - "Michael Bowes" <rmichaelbowes <RamanaMaharshi> Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:35 PM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Ben's solution > > --- Ben Hassine <ben.hassine wrote: > SNIP > > > Love doesn't need machineguns. It is the illusion of > > separation that needs > > them. > > > > Yours, > > > > Ben. > > > > Dear Ben, > > There is a time for the gun. Sometimes an entity > needs to be put out of its misery for the sake of > "love". > > Love, > > michael > > Hi Michael, Yes that may be true. What I was trying to say is, a point I have made more often, is that the world DEVOID of the illusion -or idea- of separation is REAL. The world is seen as one whole, undivided aspect of Reality. When seen as such, there is spontaneous action arising from that insight. This action tends to be meaningful, intelligent, wholesome, direct and choiceless. To merely say the world is unreal is rather shallow and meaningless. The world of separation (ego) is unreal, dreamlike: there I can agree with. Oh well, Ben. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release 1/22/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Alan wrote: >The Jnani is Love -Consciousness -Reality > but this Love is divine not humanoid , and although all compassionate, it can also be severe on > the ego in order to diminish its assumed arrogance .Rigour can also be an expression of Divine > Love. > > Nevertheless we can rest assured that the Immortal Friend or Pure Love as the Self is always there > ."he knows what to do and when and how to do it "Meanwhile "what to do? Ripen by the joy of atma > vichara and surrender .All love.in the Grace of the Self, Alan Dear Alan, Yes. From the viewpoint of the ego or intellect this Divine Love cannot be understood or measured. It is truly beyond the mind. To know it, is to be it. Also, as Sri Ramana has pointed out again and again, discussions as to whether the world is real or unreal are quite pointless. I am aware of this, I can see why this is so. It is not my intention to bring up such a discussion, as I hope you can understand. When separation drops the words real or unreal cannot be applied to what is left. Indeed, meanwhile we ripen by the Joy of vichara and "Friend-bhakti". Yours in the Friend, Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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