Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Om Namah Shivaya I love reading Ash Mahajan's perspective... Life is a mystery and sometimes the mysteries get resolved after quite a flow... I think I have had a spiritual bent all along, but there wasn't any reason to dig into it. Things had been going well and looking hunky dory...a few years back....and life has a strange way of sending messages. I still remeber the day when I had a minor mishap and I wondered if all good things would come to an end (Sign#1) - and I needed to somehow continue this material prosperity and growth...That started me on the path, albeit very slowly purely driven by a materialistic need. Initially, it was the fear that good things might end, that put me on the path....and I didn't do a whole lot to get on this spiritual path that I walk on now, but looking back, I think I was on a fork. My journey continued and then I received a few more signs of the impending 'disaster' that was due to happen. I just simply get amazed of all the different occurences and signs that were pointing me to the future... All the divine signs were so clear in their direction, the preparation was happening.....somebody's skillful leela at play Stuff happened and I bounced up amazingly well (again something minor when I look back, but it could have been disastrous if I didn't have the divine luck, right mental attitude and strength to bounce from it), lil bit of sweat and stress, but sailed right through it. It just put things in perspective that there is someone taking care of us. Don't worry, live happy. I was all along being prepared for the inevitable. I know that we are always mentally prepared to play out the Karma... that is taken care off, when we are thrust upon this world. My spiritual path started with greed - trying to maintain my prosperity - (it is still very much there), but I am beginning to realize the futility of this all (at times , and I have slowly enriched myself in this journey. Even Sage Valmiki as a forest thief, turned a new leaf by chanting MARA MARA right? It is just a path, and there are many avenues to journey through it until we all merge.... But I am lost in trying to answer, was it ME that jumped out of the hurdle that had cropped up, or was it the Divine? If I have no control over what happens to me, do I need to make an effort at all? A few years back I had just graduated without any job amidst a recession. I knew I had to make it happen myself. And through some pains, I managed to land on my feet running. That gave me quite some confidence. But was it ME who did that or was it the divine? Fate or Free Will? What happens if I don't excersise my free will? If everything is already decided for - we already know the outcome - why then we exercise our WILL POWER to go all out and get something? Is there a need for it? It confuses me utterly, and I still seek to use my free will and will power to attain stuff, while I know surrender is the way... It ain't easy. Shiva Bhakta http://www.jyotirlinga.com "innerhike" <ash.mahajan (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net>Re: Bondage and Liberation I ask this not to offend you. Some people get into "spirituality" thinking it will make them happier, give them more stuff, stability in their life. But in fact spirituality may take your stuff away. And increase external instability. To find the real gold we have to be willing to give up the fake gold. It is as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Dear Shiv Bhakta, Namaste Fate vs. free will is perhaps the most debated and discussed subject and yet keeps surfacing in our minds. Like many other doubts this confusion can also be addressed through one single 'Brahmastra' given to us by Shri Bhagawan i.e, FOR WHOM IS THE FATE OR FREE WILL? It will be found that the real self is not effected by either the fate or free will. Both of these relate to the EGO and need to be transcended.However even from the perspective of the ego both of these are nothing but resulting through cause and effect relationship and are interdependent. Fate is actually the result of our past karmas which in their times were influenced by exercise of the freewill. Thus it is the free will that determines our fate. This body, from the time of its bearth, is programmed to undergo certain predetermined circumstances and experiences ( depending upon our prarabdha karma which were responsible for bringing the body into existence) however it is our free will as to how we react to these circumstances and to what extent we get influenced and attached to these. Thus we are always free to exercise our free will in the course of life and accordingly shape our fate. But again we need to remember that as sadhaks we need to go beyond both - the fate as well as free will by submerging the ego, lest we are caught in the karmic cycles in whatever guise. Love yours in bhagawan sidhartha - Shiva Bhakta RamanaMaharshi Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:54 AM [RamanaMaharshi] Signs! Om Namah Shivaya I love reading Ash Mahajan's perspective... Life is a mystery and sometimes the mysteries get resolved after quite a flow... I think I have had a spiritual bent all along, but there wasn't any reason to dig into it. Things had been going well and looking hunky dory...a few years back....and life has a strange way of sending messages. I still remeber the day when I had a minor mishap and I wondered if all good things would come to an end (Sign#1) - and I needed to somehow continue this material prosperity and growth...That started me on the path, albeit very slowly purely driven by a materialistic need. Initially, it was the fear that good things might end, that put me on the path....and I didn't do a whole lot to get on this spiritual path that I walk on now, but looking back, I think I was on a fork. My journey continued and then I received a few more signs of the impending 'disaster' that was due to happen. I just simply get amazed of all the different occurences and signs that were pointing me to the future... All the divine signs were so clear in their direction, the preparation was happening.....somebody's skillful leela at play Stuff happened and I bounced up amazingly well (again something minor when I look back, but it could have been disastrous if I didn't have the divine luck, right mental attitude and strength to bounce from it), lil bit of sweat and stress, but sailed right through it. It just put things in perspective that there is someone taking care of us. Don't worry, live happy. I was all along being prepared for the inevitable. I know that we are always mentally prepared to play out the Karma... that is taken care off, when we are thrust upon this world. My spiritual path started with greed - trying to maintain my prosperity - (it is still very much there), but I am beginning to realize the futility of this all (at times , and I have slowly enriched myself in this journey. Even Sage Valmiki as a forest thief, turned a new leaf by chanting MARA MARA right? It is just a path, and there are many avenues to journey through it until we all merge.... But I am lost in trying to answer, was it ME that jumped out of the hurdle that had cropped up, or was it the Divine? If I have no control over what happens to me, do I need to make an effort at all? A few years back I had just graduated without any job amidst a recession. I knew I had to make it happen myself. And through some pains, I managed to land on my feet running. That gave me quite some confidence. But was it ME who did that or was it the divine? Fate or Free Will? What happens if I don't excersise my free will? If everything is already decided for - we already know the outcome - why then we exercise our WILL POWER to go all out and get something? Is there a need for it? It confuses me utterly, and I still seek to use my free will and will power to attain stuff, while I know surrender is the way... It ain't easy. Shiva Bhakta http://www.jyotirlinga.com "innerhike" <ash.mahajan (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net>Re: Bondage and Liberation I ask this not to offend you. Some people get into "spirituality" thinking it will make them happier, give them more stuff, stability in their life. But in fact spirituality may take your stuff away. And increase external instability. To find the real gold we have to be willing to give up the fake gold. It is as simple as that. Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-ownerShortcut URL to this page: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 sdalakoti <sdalakoti (AT) jkpm (DOT) jkmail.com> wrote: Dear Shiv Bhakta, Namaste Fate vs. free will is perhaps the most debated and discussed subject and yet keeps surfacing in our minds. Like many other doubts this confusion can also be addressed through one single 'Brahmastra' given to us by Shri Bhagawan i.e, FOR WHOM IS THE FATE OR FREE WILL? This is a very good question, something with which I have been struggling with. It will be found that the real self is not effected by either the fate or free will. Both of these relate to the EGO and need to be transcended. Are you saying that ego has a separated existential reality, with independen perspectives, etc, which then has to be transcended? If not, transcend what? And if no existential reality, then the perspectives of the ego, do they have any reality? Or any import? Or is the very need to transcend, the play of ego, trying to perpetuate itself in that very process? I wonder whether the transcendental state, no matter how conceived, believed, or conceptualized, is not the subtle of the subtle-st play of the same ego? However even from the perspective of the ego both of these are nothing but resulting through cause and effect relationship and are interdependent. Fate is actually the result of our past karmas which in their times were influenced by exercise of the freewill. Please excuse my igonrance, when you use the term "our past karma",.......who or what is that "our"? Thus it is the free will that determines our fate. This body, from the time of its bearth, is programmed to undergo certain predetermined circumstances and experiences ( depending upon our prarabdha karma which were responsible for bringing the body into existence) however it is our free will as to how we react to these circumstances and to what extent we get influenced and attached to these. Is it so? I have been investigating a number of my reactions in my life, some of which resulted in major impacts, some did not appear to have much impacts. And I am now wondering, whether the specific reaction can be divorced away from the very circumstance that invoked that reaction. And for that circumstance, I could trace at least scores of other circumstances, all which happened and over which I had no control whatsoever, all of which led to the happening of this circumstance, which invoked that reaction. And thus I now wonder, whether I have any free-will, which seems to me to be another term for control, over any of my actions, be it a mental reaction or a physical act. Thus we are always free to exercise our free will in the course of life and accordingly shape our fate. But again we need to remember that as sadhaks we need to go beyond both - the fate as well as free will by submerging the ego, lest we are caught in the karmic cycles in whatever guise. It seems to me right now, as I naively type these words, that there is no sadhak and no sadhna. There is no transcendence, for there is nothing to be transcended. No transcendental state to be achieved, or reached, or realized. There is only the Self, or the Source, playing all the roles as all sadhaks, simultaneously. And since the Source is all there is, the beginning and the end, simultaneously, the Source playing the play of sadhna, can never reach the Source. That these very words, being typed, as they get typed, is as much the play of the Source, right now. I look at what has just now got typed and I have broken into uncontrollable weeping and am unable to carry on. Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Dear Avril, - Avril Sanya RamanaMaharshi Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:54 AM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Signs! Hello Siddhartha, sdalakoti <sdalakoti (AT) jkpm (DOT) jkmail.com> wrote: Dear Shiv Bhakta, Namaste Fate vs. free will is perhaps the most debated and discussed subject and yet keeps surfacing in our minds. Like many other doubts this confusion can also be addressed through one single 'Brahmastra' given to us by Shri Bhagawan i.e, FOR WHOM IS THE FATE OR FREE WILL? This is a very good question, something with which I have been struggling with. It will be found that the real self is not effected by either the fate or free will. Both of these relate to the EGO and need to be transcended. Are you saying that ego has a separated existential reality, with independen perspectives, etc, which then has to be transcended? If not, transcend what? And if no existential reality, then the perspectives of the ego, do they have any reality? Or any import? Or is the very need to transcend, the play of ego, trying to perpetuate itself in that very process? I wonder whether the transcendental state, no matter how conceived, believed, or conceptualized, is not the subtle of the subtle-st play of the same ego? The Ego doesnot have a reality and consequently neither the fate nor free will have; infact the reality is devoid of any perceptions and concepts. But as long as we, in our ignorance, are being deluded by this ego-ghost its perspectives appear to have a reality as well as import. In fact in the process of annihiliation of the mind, it is the very mind that is the starting point and the only tool with us. The need to transcend as well as the transcendental stage are also only concepts being pointers to THAT which is beyond intellect and hence cannot be expressed in words. However even from the perspective of the ego both of these are nothing but resulting through cause and effect relationship and are interdependent. Fate is actually the result of our past karmas which in their times were influenced by exercise of the freewill. Please excuse my igonrance, when you use the term "our past karma",.......who or what is that "our"? It is the same very EGO Thus it is the free will that determines our fate. This body, from the time of its bearth, is programmed to undergo certain predetermined circumstances and experiences ( depending upon our prarabdha karma which were responsible for bringing the body into existence) however it is our free will as to how we react to these circumstances and to what extent we get influenced and attached to these. Is it so? I have been investigating a number of my reactions in my life, some of which resulted in major impacts, some did not appear to have much impacts. And I am now wondering, whether the specific reaction can be divorced away from the very circumstance that invoked that reaction. And for that circumstance, I could trace at least scores of other circumstances, all which happened and over which I had no control whatsoever, all of which led to the happening of this circumstance, which invoked that reaction. And thus I now wonder, whether I have any free-will, which seems to me to be another term for control, over any of my actions, be it a mental reaction or a physical act. Dear Arvil, we can have control over Reactions but not over the Impacts.Infact the very saying that "very circumstance that invoked that reaction" goes on to show that there was no control over the reaction. Why have any reaction at all? cant we remain as we are- absorbed in the self- uncontaminated with what goes on around us. That is the goal. Any reaction means some sort of discrimination and as shri Bhagawan had put it "the discrimination is the original sin". Thus we are always free to exercise our free will in the course of life and accordingly shape our fate. But again we need to remember that as sadhaks we need to go beyond both - the fate as well as free will by submerging the ego, lest we are caught in the karmic cycles in whatever guise. It seems to me right now, as I naively type these words, that there is no sadhak and no sadhna. There is no transcendence, for there is nothing to be transcended. No transcendental state to be achieved, or reached, or realized. There is only the Self, or the Source, playing all the roles as all sadhaks, simultaneously. And since the Source is all there is, the beginning and the end, simultaneously, the Source playing the play of sadhna, can never reach the Source. That these very words, being typed, as they get typed, is as much the play of the Source, right now. I look at what has just now got typed and I have broken into uncontrollable weeping and am unable to carry on. What you say is absolutely right and is known as 'ajatvaad' in the advaitic philosophy - no creation , no creator , no sadhaka and no sadhana- only one supreme reality. Blessed is the one who can comprehend this . You have further said " source playing the play of sadhana can never reach the source". Who is to REACH where? Shri Bhagawan has often said that "dvait" in sadhana and "advait" in the goal is not correct. The tenth man of the story was all along present . Once the veil is removed we are THAT only. Love Yours in Bhagawan sidhartha Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-ownerShortcut URL to this page: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hello Siddhartha, Dear Arvil, we can have control over Reactions but not over the Impacts.Infact the very saying that "very circumstance that invoked that reaction" goes on to show that there was no control over the reaction. Why have any reaction at all? It is the understanding prevailing here, that there is no "we" to have any control over any reaction. That reaction and impact are interwoven, with every impact being the enabling of another reaction. It is not the question of why have a reaction, but that there is a sense of possession of the reaction which non-volitionally happens in the moment. Or that such a sense of possession does not prevail, while the reaction unfolds. cant we remain as we are- absorbed in the self- uncontaminated with what goes on around us. Again, it is the understanding prevailing here, at this moment, that such a sense of a "we", absorbed in whatever it has self-conceived, is the very contamination. In a manner of speaking, for really no contamination is other than Self, other than Source. That is the goal. Any reaction means some sort of discrimination and as shri Bhagawan had put it "the discrimination is the original sin". Yes. And any sense of a goal, the understanding that prevails here in the moment is that, it is the same discrimination at work, in that very sense of a goal. That any prevailing sense of a goal, can only exist in association with the sense of a seeker of the goal, which prevails simultaneously. That the sense of the seeker can never cease, without the cessation of the sense of the goal. Shri Bhagawan has often said that "dvait" in sadhana and "advait" in the goal is not correct. I doubt whether he would have used the term "not-correct". It is the understanding here, that both dvait and advait are conceptualizations of the seeking mind. And that there is nothing as not-correct, within an appearance. Nothing correct either. Once the veil is removed we are THAT only. It is the understanding here, that the very veil of ignorance is, that there can be at all, a veil which separates a "we" from That. Such that a removal of such a veil is ever possible. Such that the concept of "once", " time", "becoming", "change", can ever exist. Thank you all of you, who had no volition but to play the roles you had to play via the words posted as emails on this List, in enabling this sense of clarity to arise, which prevails here, now. The Source bows in gratitude to Source. sdalakoti <sdalakoti (AT) jkpm (DOT) jkmail.com> wrote: Dear Avril, - Avril Sanya RamanaMaharshi Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:54 AM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Signs! Hello Siddhartha, sdalakoti <sdalakoti (AT) jkpm (DOT) jkmail.com> wrote: Dear Shiv Bhakta, Namaste Fate vs. free will is perhaps the most debated and discussed subject and yet keeps surfacing in our minds. Like many other doubts this confusion can also be addressed through one single 'Brahmastra' given to us by Shri Bhagawan i.e, FOR WHOM IS THE FATE OR FREE WILL? This is a very good question, something with which I have been struggling with. It will be found that the real self is not effected by either the fate or free will. Both of these relate to the EGO and need to be transcended. Are you saying that ego has a separated existential reality, with independen perspectives, etc, which then has to be transcended? If not, transcend what? And if no existential reality, then the perspectives of the ego, do they have any reality? Or any import? Or is the very need to transcend, the play of ego, trying to perpetuate itself in that very process? I wonder whether the transcendental state, no matter how conceived, believed, or conceptualized, is not the subtle of the subtle-st play of the same ego? The Ego doesnot have a reality and consequently neither the fate nor free will have; infact the reality is devoid of any perceptions and concepts. But as long as we, in our ignorance, are being deluded by this ego-ghost its perspectives appear to have a reality as well as import. In fact in the process of annihiliation of the mind, it is the very mind that is the starting point and the only tool with us. The need to transcend as well as the transcendental stage are also only concepts being pointers to THAT which is beyond intellect and hence cannot be expressed in words. However even from the perspective of the ego both of these are nothing but resulting through cause and effect relationship and are interdependent. Fate is actually the result of our past karmas which in their times were influenced by exercise of the freewill. Please excuse my igonrance, when you use the term "our past karma",.......who or what is that "our"? It is the same very EGO Thus it is the free will that determines our fate. This body, from the time of its bearth, is programmed to undergo certain predetermined circumstances and experiences ( depending upon our prarabdha karma which were responsible for bringing the body into existence) however it is our free will as to how we react to these circumstances and to what extent we get influenced and attached to these. Is it so? I have been investigating a number of my reactions in my life, some of which resulted in major impacts, some did not appear to have much impacts. And I am now wondering, whether the specific reaction can be divorced away from the very circumstance that invoked that reaction. And for that circumstance, I could trace at least scores of other circumstances, all which happened and over which I had no control whatsoever, all of which led to the happening of this circumstance, which invoked that reaction. And thus I now wonder, whether I have any free-will, which seems to me to be another term for control, over any of my actions, be it a mental reaction or a physical act. Dear Arvil, we can have control over Reactions but not over the Impacts.Infact the very saying that "very circumstance that invoked that reaction" goes on to show that there was no control over the reaction. Why have any reaction at all? cant we remain as we are- absorbed in the self- uncontaminated with what goes on around us. That is the goal. Any reaction means some sort of discrimination and as shri Bhagawan had put it "the discrimination is the original sin". Thus we are always free to exercise our free will in the course of life and accordingly shape our fate. But again we need to remember that as sadhaks we need to go beyond both - the fate as well as free will by submerging the ego, lest we are caught in the karmic cycles in whatever guise. It seems to me right now, as I naively type these words, that there is no sadhak and no sadhna. There is no transcendence, for there is nothing to be transcended. No transcendental state to be achieved, or reached, or realized. There is only the Self, or the Source, playing all the roles as all sadhaks, simultaneously. And since the Source is all there is, the beginning and the end, simultaneously, the Source playing the play of sadhna, can never reach the Source. That these very words, being typed, as they get typed, is as much the play of the Source, right now. I look at what has just now got typed and I have broken into uncontrollable weeping and am unable to carry on. What you say is absolutely right and is known as 'ajatvaad' in the advaitic philosophy - no creation , no creator , no sadhaka and no sadhana- only one supreme reality. Blessed is the one who can comprehend this . You have further said " source playing the play of sadhana can never reach the source". Who is to REACH where? Shri Bhagawan has often said that "dvait" in sadhana and "advait" in the goal is not correct. The tenth man of the story was all along present . Once the veil is removed we are THAT only. Love Yours in Bhagawan sidhartha Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Shiv Bhakta ji: Don't worry about Fate or Free Will. If you are carrying a big load and your back is breaking and your forehead is sweating, step into the celestial bar and have a drink from the tap called Source. It is quite refreshing and intoxicating from the few times I have visited this bar. The signs outside this bar say "don't come here, nothing here" but once you go in, you seem to be overtaken by the power and the really cool scene. With all due respect to the Ramana devotees here, my understanding of Ramana is very limited. I just bow to his photo everyday and say "please you tell me, I haven't a clue." Somehow the idea that helps me is that the Universal Mind is much better than mine. There were moments when I thought oh boy, this is it, I am now merged in the Divine. But no, the ego comes right back, sometimes in greater force than ever before. People in kindergarten think they are doing a post-PhD program. I am chief among them. If you want to meet stupidity, come over to my place sometime and I will show you stupid. But if you are looking for smartness, drop all questions, questioning, wondering, wandering. Catch the one inside your home. Don't try to catch the wind, the mountains, the sun. God is not deaf, nor remote, nor inaccessible. There is no division, when you think you are far from God, simply lean back into God. The more you "do" this, the more you will know to not leave God. What you have, don't have, wish to have, wish to leave, all this will be taken care of, is being taken care of. You need oxygen to breathe, it is provided. Your heart is beating, you don't have to get a contract and warranty for it to work. Similarly all parts of your life can operate on auto-pilot if you will simply learn how to use auto-pilot. It is also called surrender. Do what you can, and let go of that which you can't control, ask the Divine to guide you. Let go of the sweating, the back-breaking behaviors, life might actually be a pleasant experience for all you know. You have to do your part, no doubt about it. Whenever you do something try to come from the place called Peace Within. Then whatever you touch will be golden. Most people that I observe, including myself, we come from a place called "Let-Me-Grasp-This- Object-Because-The-Future-Is-Uncertain". To buy God you better have a lot of money, a lot of stuff, matter of fact all the stuff you have ever accumulated you will need to give to God if you want to buy Him/Her. The sign is saying "Stop, Look Within" and another one says "Rough Weather Ahead, Learn Faith Today at Discount Prices, Don't Wait". So you have been given the sign you were looking for. If you pay me the right amount I will make up some better ones. I didn't know I was a sign-maker but what the heck, you've gotta make a living in these amazing times! Take care bud, Ash Mahajan RamanaMaharshi, "Shiva Bhakta" <shivabhakta@h...> wrote: > Om Namah Shivaya > I love reading Ash Mahajan's perspective... > > Life is a mystery and sometimes the mysteries get resolved after quite a flow... > I think I have had a spiritual bent all along, but there wasn't any reason to dig into it. Things had been going well and looking hunky dory...a few years back....and life has a strange way of sending messages. I still remeber the day when I had a minor mishap and I wondered if all good things would come to an end (Sign#1) - and I needed to somehow continue this material prosperity and growth...That started me on the path, albeit very slowly purely driven by a materialistic need. Initially, it was the fear that good things might end, that put me on the path....and I didn't do a whole lot to get on this spiritual path that I walk on now, but looking back, I think I was on a fork. > > My journey continued and then I received a few more signs of the impending 'disaster' that was due to happen. > I just simply get amazed of all the different occurences and signs that were pointing me to the future... > All the divine signs were so clear in their direction, the preparation was happening.....somebody's skillful leela at play > Stuff happened and I bounced up amazingly well (again something minor when I look back, but it could have been > disastrous if I didn't have the divine luck, right mental attitude and strength to bounce from it), lil bit of sweat and stress, but sailed right through it. > > It just put things in perspective that there is someone taking care of us. Don't worry, live happy. > I was all along being prepared for the inevitable. I know that we are always mentally prepared to play out the Karma... > that is taken care off, when we are thrust upon this world. > > My spiritual path started with greed - trying to maintain my prosperity - (it is still very much there), but I am beginning to realize the futility of this all (at times , and I have slowly enriched myself in this journey. Even Sage Valmiki as a forest thief, turned a new leaf by chanting MARA MARA right? It is just a path, and there are many avenues to journey through it until we all merge.... > > But I am lost in trying to answer, was it ME that jumped out of the hurdle that had cropped up, or was it the Divine? > If I have no control over what happens to me, do I need to make an effort at all? > A few years back I had just graduated without any job amidst a recession. I knew I had to make it happen myself. > And through some pains, I managed to land on my feet running. That gave me quite some confidence. But was it ME who did that or was it the divine? Fate or Free Will? What happens if I don't excersise my free will? If everything is already decided for - we already know the outcome - why then we exercise our WILL POWER to go all out and get something? Is there a need for it? > It confuses me utterly, and I still seek to use my free will and will power to attain stuff, while I know surrender is the way... > It ain't easy. > > Shiva Bhakta > http://www.jyotirlinga.com > > > "innerhike" <ash.mahajan@w...> > Re: Bondage and Liberation > > I ask this not to offend you. Some people get into "spirituality" > thinking it will make them happier, give them more stuff, stability > in their life. But in fact spirituality may take your stuff away. > And increase external instability. To find the real gold we have to > be willing to give up the fake gold. It is as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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