duality/non-duality

May 9, 2004

Dear Anu,

In my ignorance I would say that rather than seek an

intellectual answer to this

conundrum it is better to be aware again of the limitations of the

ordinary mind , and its

inability to solve each and every problem.

There is no doubt that all is Self or God ,but when we

appear to be in the manifes-

ation there is no doubt that some things seem more sacred than others

e.g. Arunachala

and indeed Bhagavan Himself.

Yes all is God but if we see injustice we have to act ,but

without the sense "i am the

Doer".

Personally ,when i get stuck over some intellectual

question I try and think of

Bhagavan's teaching that all will be revealed and resolved in

Self-Realization ,so I try and

stick steadfastly to my practise.

I have always felt that there is a tradition of saying

that "well everything is already

Realized so who needs a Guru ,Path, or Method". To me Realization within

that tradition is

usually at the intellectual level only . I was recently appalled to hear

someone from that tradition,

despite their plagiarising Bhagavan's words at every moment whilst

denegrating His great gift of

Vichara, describing Bhagavan as "just an ordinary bloke".

Maybe in saying " advaita in thought but not in action"

Bhagavan was indicating that non

-duality should not be a cause to make all things ordinary and not worthy of

deep respect.

Regards,

Michael Dillon

>Miles <miles.wright

>RamanaMaharshi

><RamanaMaharshi>

>Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Re: FROM SAD VIDYA

>Wed, 05 May 2004 16:12:06 +0100

>

>om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya

>

>Dear Anu,

>

>Talk 458:

>

>'Sri Bhagavan said that non-dual idea is advised but not advaita in action.

>How will one learn advaita if one does not find a master and receive

>instructions? Is there not duality then? That is the meaning.'

>

>Regards,

>Miles

>

> > In REVELATIONa translation of this verse by K Lakshman Sarma

> > reads as follows:

> >

> > 85. Meditate always on the Truth which is without a second;but

> > never (seek to)apply the teaching of non-duality to actions in the

> > worldly life; my son, meditate on this Truth as covering all the

> > universe; but never do so in respect of the Guru.

> >

> > I have had difficulty fully comprehending this verse. In both

> > translations the instruction is quite emphatic. I shall be grateful

> > for clarification from any of the readers please.

> >

> > In Ramana's Grace

> > love

> > anu

>

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May 10, 2004

Dear Michael,

Thankyou for your mail and apologies for the delayed reply.

You wrote:

"In my ignorance I would say that rather than seek an

intellectual answer to this conundrum it is better to be aware again

of the limitations of the ordinary mind , and its inability to solve

each and every problem.

There is no doubt that all is Self or God ,but when we

appear to be in the manifestation there is no doubt that some things

seem more sacred than others

e.g. Arunachala and indeed Bhagavan Himself.

Yes all is God but if we see injustice we have to act ,but

without the sense "i am the Doer".

Personally ,when i get stuck over some intellectual

question I try and think of Bhagavan's teaching that all will be

revealed and resolved in Self-Realization ,so I try and stick

steadfastly to my practise."

Michael, I couldn't agree more. I too have always relied on the

teachings of the Guru and asked my Heart the queries raised by the

mind, in the certainty that all will be revealed at the right time.

And yet, through recent participation on-line with the Study Group

etc. I have learnt that exchanging questions, answers & views with

the group is not only a valuable bonding exercise with like minded

travelers along the Path but an important access to a mirror which

reflects the shortcomings and misgivings of my own mind in spiritual

matters and therefore enhances my practice.

--------

You said,

"I have always felt that there is a tradition of saying

that "well everything is already Realized so who needs a Guru ,Path,

or Method". To me Realization within that tradition is usually at

the intellectual level only . I was recently appalled to hear

someone from that tradition, despite their plagiarising Bhagavan's

words at every moment whilst denegrating His great gift of Vichara,

describing Bhagavan as "just an ordinary bloke".

--------

Yes Michael,- To denigrate anyone is unskillful and therefore it is

best not to unwittingly follow the cue of those who do. So let's

just continue to concentrate on our own practice!

--------------

You wrote:

"Maybe in saying " advaita in thought but not in action"

Bhagavan was indicating that non-duality should not be a cause to

make all things ordinary and not worthy of deep respect."

The verse referred to:

85. 'Meditate always on the Truth which is without a second;but

never (seek to)apply the teaching of non-duality to actions in the

worldly life; my son, meditate on this Truth as covering all the

universe; but never do so in respect of the Guru.'

Further to the replies received from Sri Nagaraja & Alan this is how

I now see it. When I lift my hand, movement arises out of stillness,

then, the hand automatically returns to stillness. I may continue to

carry out repeated, multiple movements. They will all arise from

stillness and return to stillness. The stillness is non-duality, the

movements are expression of duality. Although stillness is at the

beginning, the end and interspersed throughout all movement, the one

cannot be mistaken for the other. Similarly Truth-Consciousness-

Bliss is the all engulfing non-duality, 'covering all the

universe' but must not be confused with or considered as

interchangeable with actions in worldly life, which by their

inherent nature represent duality.

So too, a Guru, although representing the all covering Truth, and

thought of in the context of spiritual practice (not 'worldly

life'), remains a part of or a feature of duality. Guru Sri

Ramana, 'having cut the knot', 'abided in the non-dual Self'- the

Truth. But he moved and functioned in the dualistic world around

him, thus maintaining that ditinction between non-duality & duality.

This I feel is the emphatic instruction in that verse.(This then

makes it very difficult to accept the expression 'everything is

already Realised' !!)

Michael, thank you for this opportunity to crystalise my thoughts on

the matter.

regards,

anu

> _______________

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May 12, 2004

Dear Anu,

Iam glad my reply helped you to christalise your thoughts

on this matter ,but i still

feel that duality/non-duality are still concepts ,albeit useful ones,of the

mind and are therefore

subject to their own limitations.We are trying to understand the un-limited

with the limited , at the

same time trying to understand that the limited can not exist i.e. that

infinity does not allow for finite parts within it.We have the analogy of

the blindfolded men feeling an elephant and each des-

cribing it differently e.g as a boulder,tree trunk etc.

Now a mirage is a mirage but still it appears to be created

by some constant rules of physics and cognition . Now advaita basically

interprets our perceived reality to be illusion,but within that illusion

there seems to be some governing rules. You don't think "ah this is all

illusion -so therefore i will throw myself of a cliff and then fly away".

Now within maya there are some more significant guidelines related to karma

etc ,or to spiritual practise which means we inherently should respect a

Guru even where in Bhagavan's case He didn't encourage or exploit that

elevated state.

For me the best analogy is that of watching a really

absorbing movie , and although you are totally sucked into it you know it is

an illusion-or i hope you do! And moreover at the end of the movie the

lights go up and despite the activity of the movie the screen stays un-moved

as it has done througout the movie.The Self remains as it was/as it is

throughout.

I hope this is of some help although in truth i have no

understanding of these things.

Regards,

mick dillon

>"anupadayachi" <anupadayachi

>RamanaMaharshi

>[RamanaMaharshi] Re: duality/non-duality

>Mon, 10 May 2004 23:20:45 -0000

>

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[RamanaMaharshi] Re: duality/non-duality