Guest guest Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Sahaj in sanksrit means easy and natural. Sri Ramana used to say that what is Sahaj for the Siddha is the practice of the Sadhaka. There is saying in Hindi, "Sahaj pake so meetha hoy." It means that easy and natural baking leads to sweetness. Probably something like the English saying that soup that simmers slowly or the cake that is baked slowly tastes best in the end. Easy and natural is the way. Everything else makes it appear that Reality is found somewhere other than where you already are. But how can that be? So we must examine the nature of the distance between the self and the Self. This exploration needs the eye (I) to suddenly turn to itself or face itself. in doing so the distance between the the self and the Self cannot be maintained. If we understand this, that is grace. Lahiri Mahasya used to say, "Banat Banat ban Jaye" which has a similar meaning..."happening, happening, happened." All of these sayings, "You are the doer", "You are not the doer" might have some meaning to someone at some point in time. All are concepts only for the mind to struggle with. To be easy and natural is, well, it is to be easy and natural and it is best because it is easy and natural. What is not easy and natural will produce inner conflicts. We already have enough of those. Of course for some people making more conflicts may be easy and natural. In that case, go for it (and you can't help it anyway). Being easy and natural in awareness allows for the recognition of the Self, which by its very nature is easy being, natural, and wholeness of awareness aware of itself as its own ananda. There is no good way to express it. My teacher (who was a monk for 28-29 years) once told me that as a young monk he was very very strict with himself. "Sometimes, too much judgment and discipline can be a form of violence with oneself." he told me. Another time when we were talking about gurus, I mentioned many names. He knew most of them personally (Krishamurti, Muktaananda, Chinmoy, Rajneesh, Chiddananda, Swami Rama, Swami Satchintananda, etc.). Those he liked, he would only say, "He is a good man." Finally, my teacher said to me, "You should never follow a guru!" I looked at him puzzled (because he was my guru, you see). He smiled and said in his thick Bombay Indian accent, "What if the guru goes crazy and tells you to do strange and crazy and weird things..." I had a good laugh! He smile and added, "that does happen you know....". I laughed even harder. Well, it does happen you know. As Sri Ramana never tired of saying,... the only true guru is your Heart, your own Self. So wise sages tell the advanced aspirants to be natural. Make the effort, if natural. Follow a teaching if it is easy and makes sense. If something makes no sense, there is no point in following it. So what if it is considered the supreme teaching and so on by someone well known and supreme. For all you know, what the supreme and well known people say could all be a bunch of crap. Think about it. What do they really know? What can anyone really and truly know? So rest, if it feels natural to rest, watch the spiritual parade pass by and not be moved by any teaching. Or join the parade and sing your song. Sri Krishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita something like -- "Your very nature will make you act in a certain way". That is why you can be at perfect ease. Self-remembrance, Awareness aware of itself, Self-abidance, all of these mean the same. Easy and natural is one being aware of the innate wakefulness through the winds of emotions, colors, and change. To the extent one can grasp it, simply remain aware and if you become conscious of some intangible cloud of unknowing which you cannot go through, become comfortable with it, stay with it, and breath it in and out. Love to all Harsha ===== /join Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 And "Sahaj pake so meetha hoy." , "Banat Banat ban Jaye", these are not concepts? Self-Rememberance, Self-Abidance, Awareness, these are not concepts? Even the pointing to Sahaj, as natural and easy, has your teacher not objectivized? Try to communicate, whether by opening your lips or using your fingers, and all that will happen are births of concepts. Whether it is your teacher or Ramana or Krishnamurthy or Chinmayananda. Each concept is of relevance to the moment and ends with that moment. To believe that some concepts are "higher" than other, is to me, sheer foolishness. For it assumes the existential reality of the particular concept. Sahajstha, is not the becoming of Sahaj, but the seeing that Sahaj is already the case, irrespective of the presence or absence of "conflicts". And thus Shajstha, is the complete irrelevance of Sahaj as a concept. Or for anybody to be Sahaj, as you appear to be suggesting. Love Avril harshaimtm <harsha (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote: Sahaj in sanksrit means easy and natural.Sri Ramana used to say that what is Sahaj for theSiddha is the practice of the Sadhaka.There is saying in Hindi, "Sahaj pake so meetha hoy."It means that easy and natural baking leads tosweetness.Probably something like the English saying that soupthat simmers slowly or the cake that is baked slowlytastes best in the end.Easy and natural is the way. Everything else makes itappear that Reality is found somewhere other thanwhere you already are. But how can that be? So we mustexamine the nature of the distance between the selfand the Self. This exploration needs the eye (I) tosuddenly turn to itself or face itself. in doing sothe distance between the the self and the Self cannotbe maintained. If we understand this, that is grace. Lahiri Mahasya used to say, "Banat Banat ban Jaye"which has a similar meaning..."happening, happening,happened."All of these sayings, "You are the doer", "You are notthe doer" might have some meaning to someone at somepoint in time. All are concepts only for the mind tostruggle with. To be easy and natural is, well, it is to be easy andnatural and it is best because it is easy and natural.What is not easy and natural will produce innerconflicts. We already have enough of those. Of coursefor some people making more conflicts may be easy andnatural. In that case, go for it (and you can't helpit anyway).Being easy and natural in awareness allows for therecognition of the Self, which by its very nature iseasy being, natural, and wholeness of awareness awareof itself as its own ananda. There is no good way toexpress it. My teacher (who was a monk for 28-29 years) once toldme that as a young monk he was very very strict withhimself. "Sometimes, too much judgment and disciplinecan be a form of violence with oneself." he told me.Another time when we were talking about gurus, Imentioned many names. He knew most of them personally(Krishamurti, Muktaananda, Chinmoy, Rajneesh,Chiddananda, Swami Rama, Swami Satchintananda, etc.).Those he liked, he would only say, "He is a good man."Finally, my teacher said to me, "You should neverfollow a guru!" I looked at him puzzled (because hewas my guru, you see). He smiled and said in his thickBombay Indian accent, "What if the guru goes crazy andtells you to do strange and crazy and weird things..."I had a good laugh! He smile and added, "that doeshappen you know....". I laughed even harder. Well, itdoes happen you know.As Sri Ramana never tired of saying,... the only trueguru is your Heart, your own Self. So wise sages tell the advanced aspirants to benatural. Make the effort, if natural. Follow ateaching if it is easy and makes sense. If somethingmakes no sense, there is no point in following it. Sowhat if it is considered the supreme teaching and soon by someone well known and supreme. For all youknow, what the supreme and well known people say couldall be a bunch of crap. Think about it. What do theyreally know? What can anyone really and truly know? So rest, if it feels natural to rest, watch thespiritual parade pass by and not be moved by anyteaching. Or join the parade and sing your song. SriKrishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita somethinglike -- "Your very nature will make you act in acertain way". That is why you can be at perfect ease. Self-remembrance, Awareness aware of itself,Self-abidance, all of these mean the same.Easy and natural is one being aware of the innatewakefulness through the winds of emotions, colors, andchange. To the extent one can grasp it, simply remain awareand if you become conscious of some intangible cloudof unknowing which you cannot go through, becomecomfortable with it, stay with it, and breath it inand out.Love to allHarsha Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hi Avril, > Try to communicate, whether by opening your lips or > using your fingers, and all that will happen are births of > concepts. Whether it is your teacher or Ramana or > Krishnamurthy or Chinmayananda. Well, no. Births of concepts are ONE of the things that will happen, but they are not ALL that will happen. Words can lead people to have experiences that they would not otherwise have had. For example, if you tell somebody the recipe for baking a cake, and they make one and eat it for dinner, then the result of your communication is something more than a concept. Similarly, words can encourage somebody to do sadhana and convey instructions for sadhana. Going a little deeper, there are dozens of examples in "Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi" where somebody asks a question about concepts, and Sri Ramana tries to derail the questioner by replying in a way that provokes the questioner to look for knowledge or recognize knowlege independently of concepts. Some of these conversations are amusing. .. An Andhra visitor asked: What is sleep? .. M.: Why, you experience it every day. .. D.: I want to know exactly what it is, so that it .. may be distinguished from samadhi. .. M. How can you know sleep when you are awake? .. The answer is to go to sleep and find out what it is. .. D: But I cannot know it in this way. .. M: This question must be raised in sleep. .. D: But I cannot raise the question then. .. M: So, that is sleep. -- Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi, 432. "So, that is sleep." As if to say, "You know already! Stop looking for concepts!" Best wishes, Rob - Avril Sanya RamanaMaharshi Wednesday, June 02, 2004 12:54 AM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Sahaj - Easy and Natural LOL And "Sahaj pake so meetha hoy." , "Banat Banat ban Jaye", these are not concepts? Self-Rememberance, Self-Abidance, Awareness, these are not concepts? Even the pointing to Sahaj, as natural and easy, has your teacher not objectivized? Try to communicate, whether by opening your lips or using your fingers, and all that will happen are births of concepts. Whether it is your teacher or Ramana or Krishnamurthy or Chinmayananda. Each concept is of relevance to the moment and ends with that moment. To believe that some concepts are "higher" than other, is to me, sheer foolishness. For it assumes the existential reality of the particular concept. Sahajstha, is not the becoming of Sahaj, but the seeing that Sahaj is already the case, irrespective of the presence or absence of "conflicts". And thus Shajstha, is the complete irrelevance of Sahaj as a concept. Or for anybody to be Sahaj, as you appear to be suggesting. Love Avril Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Rob Sacks <editor (AT) realization (DOT) org> wrote: Hi Avril, > Try to communicate, whether by opening your lips or > using your fingers, and all that will happen are births of > concepts. Whether it is your teacher or Ramana or > Krishnamurthy or Chinmayananda. Well, no. Births of concepts are ONE of the things that will happen, but they are not ALL that will happen. Whatever that happens, as an event in duration, in time, is a conceptual conjecture. Your experience of your own body, as a durational event held to be the reality of birth, is concept. Words can lead people to have experiences that they would not otherwise have had. Yes Concepts may well birth further concepts. For example, the concept of birth held to be a reality, births the concept of death which is then feared as an approaching reality. For example, if you tell somebody the recipe for baking a cake, and they make one and eat it for dinner, then the result of your communication is something more than a concept. :-) Assuming that the event of eating is anything but an event within the conceptual conjecture of phenomenality. Similarly, words can encourage somebody to do sadhana and convey instructions for sadhana. No doubt. Going a little deeper, there are dozens of examples in "Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi" where somebody asks a question about concepts, and Sri Ramana tries to derail the questioner by replying in a way that provokes the questioner to look for knowledge or recognize knowlege independently of concepts. Some of these conversations are amusing. .. An Andhra visitor asked: What is sleep? .. M.: Why, you experience it every day. .. D.: I want to know exactly what it is, so that it .. may be distinguished from samadhi. .. M. How can you know sleep when you are awake? .. The answer is to go to sleep and find out what it is. .. D: But I cannot know it in this way. .. M: This question must be raised in sleep. .. D: But I cannot raise the question then. .. M: So, that is sleep. -- Talks With Sri Ramana Maharshi, 432. "So, that is sleep." As if to say, "You know already! Stop looking for concepts!" LOL Yes. The sense of seeking, itself being a concept, like a shadow over the face of the moon, can only seek more concepts, even experience some of them. Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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