Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Thank you Gabriele, this passage is of great help to all sadhakas as is the whole book. Its one of my favourite. Christina On Oct 23, 2004, at 22:53, gabriele ebert wrote: > "The most cunning pitfall on the path of the sadhaka is the > last one, hidden in Realisation Itself. > > The first Revelation of the Self is temporary. > "Jnana, once revealed, needs time to steady itself". > (Talks, 141) > > The danger is not in the sliding back; it is natural to most > sadhakas and is met quite naturally by continuing one's > practice faithfully, which in its turn will lead to further > Revelations of the Self until finally there is no sadhaka left, > but the Self only. > > If, on the other hand, the sadhaka tries to 'hold on' to that > first Revelation, in spite of his Inner Guide warning him, > (Who is holding on?), then the ego ... I slinks again in > where the Self is veiled again and distorts the Revelation > of the Self into the cry of victory: 'I have realised!' > > Blindfolded by the Bliss of the final 'success' (whose > success?) he stops to scrutinize his condition and > thus never finds out the truth: That he became a yoga- > bhrashta, one who has fallen out of his yoga, his 'union'. > > The new and definite disguise of his ego...I is 'the Guru', > and this last and most powerful pitfall never releases him, > because he never recognises that he is its victim. > > There are nowadays many whose Guru-pitfall caught them > even much earlier on their path. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Lucy Cornelssen: Hunting the 'I', pp. 50-51 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Will you help a needy child? > > · > It only costs .60¢ a day · It's easier than you think. > > · > Click here to meet a waiting child you can sponsor now. > > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > RamanaMaharshi/ > > • > RamanaMaharshi > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hi Gabriele What a gem youve sent in. Its exactly the text that will help someone I know who's really struggling at the moment, having achieved what he thought was realisation, but is now being faced with the fact he's not there yet. Thank you so much for snding it in-have ordered her book for him Love, helen --- gabriele ebert <g.ebert wrote: > "The most cunning pitfall on the path of the sadhaka > is the > last one, hidden in Realisation Itself. > > The first Revelation of the Self is temporary. > "Jnana, once revealed, needs time to steady itself". > (Talks, 141) > > The danger is not in the sliding back; it is natural > to most > sadhakas and is met quite naturally by continuing > one's > practice faithfully, which in its turn will lead to > further > Revelations of the Self until finally there is no > sadhaka left, > but the Self only. > > If, on the other hand, the sadhaka tries to 'hold > on' to that > first Revelation, in spite of his Inner Guide > warning him, > (Who is holding on?), then the ego ... I slinks > again in > where the Self is veiled again and distorts the > Revelation > of the Self into the cry of victory: 'I have > realised!' > > Blindfolded by the Bliss of the final 'success' > (whose > success?) he stops to scrutinize his condition and > thus never finds out the truth: That he became a > yoga- > bhrashta, one who has fallen out of his yoga, his > 'union'. > > The new and definite disguise of his ego...I is 'the > Guru', > and this last and most powerful pitfall never > releases him, > because he never recognises that he is its victim. > > There are nowadays many whose Guru-pitfall caught > them > even much earlier on their path. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Lucy Cornelssen: Hunting the 'I', pp. 50-51 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 - "gabriele ebert" <g.ebert "RamanaMaharshi" <RamanaMaharshi>; "Atma_Vichara" <atma_vichara> Saturday, October 23, 2004 4:53 PM [RamanaMaharshi] Lucy Ma about the Guru-pitfall "The most cunning pitfall on the path of the sadhaka is the last one, hidden in Realisation Itself. The first Revelation of the Self is temporary. "Jnana, once revealed, needs time to steady itself". (Talks, 141) The danger is not in the sliding back; it is natural to most sadhakas and is met quite naturally by continuing one's practice faithfully, which in its turn will lead to further Revelations of the Self until finally there is no sadhaka left, but the Self only. If, on the other hand, the sadhaka tries to 'hold on' to that first Revelation, in spite of his Inner Guide warning him, (Who is holding on?), then the ego ... I slinks again in where the Self is veiled again and distorts the Revelation of the Self into the cry of victory: 'I have realised!' Blindfolded by the Bliss of the final 'success' (whose success?) he stops to scrutinize his condition and thus never finds out the truth: That he became a yoga- bhrashta, one who has fallen out of his yoga, his 'union'. The new and definite disguise of his ego...I is 'the Guru', and this last and most powerful pitfall never releases him, because he never recognises that he is its victim. **************************************** Dear Gabriele: The sentiments expressed in the last two paragraphs by the author are flatly contradicted by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita in response to the question by Arjuna where Arjuna wonders what happens to the Yogi who does not succeed and falls from the path. Also, as far as I know Sri Ramana never used the word "never" in the context of someone failing permanently on the path. In fact, just the opposite, Bhagavan said something like .... one who has glimpsed the Self and tasted the joy of his own nature will not rest and will be attracted to it and continue to move in that direction until the realization is permanent. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Dear Harsha, What does the Bhagavan Gita say about? Quite correct that "never" in this context takes away all possibilities of a change. This may not be according to Bhagavan, you are right. He always left open a chance for each one, never giving up any hope. That's wonderful with Bhagavan!! Yet the general thing Lucy Ma points out is only too true. yours in Sri Bhagavan Gabriele ****************************************Dear Gabriele:The sentiments expressed in the last two paragraphs by the author are flatly contradicted by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita in response to the question by Arjuna where Arjuna wonders what happens to the Yogi who does not succeed and falls from the path.Also, as far as I know Sri Ramana never used the word "never" in the context of someone failing permanently on the path. In fact, just the opposite, Bhagavan said something like .... one who has glimpsed the Self and tasted the joy of his own nature will not rest and will be attracted to it and continue to move in that direction until the realization is permanent.Love to allHarsha Community email addresses: Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-ownerShortcut URL to this page: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 "The most cunning pitfall on the path of the sadhaka is the last one, hidden in Realisation Itself. The first Revelation of the Self is temporary. "Jnana, once revealed, needs time to steady itself". (Talks, 141) Revealation of the Self is not a revelation of something to someone, in time. There is nothing (which is not-Self), to which, the Self can reveal itself. The re-cognition of Self of itself is not an event, not an experience, not a realization, not a revealation, not an understanding, not a knowledge, in time. The re-cognition of the Self of itself, is not even a re-cogntion. The danger is not in the sliding back; it is natural to most sadhakas and is met quite naturally by continuing one's practice faithfully, which in its turn will lead to further Revelations of the Self until finally there is no sadhaka left, but the Self only. For a sliding back, there must be an differentiated, separated individual entity to slide back. In that very premise is the error (so to say) It is not that finally there is no sadhaka. At the very begining itself, there is no sadhaka, to undertake sadhana. If there is no sadhaka in the beginning, or in the end, for whom is a beginning a beginning and a finally, a final end? There is no begining and there is no final end. If, on the other hand, the sadhaka tries to 'hold on' to that first Revelation, in spite of his Inner Guide warning him, (Who is holding on?), then the ego ... I slinks again in where the Self is veiled again and distorts the Revelation of the Self into the cry of victory: 'I have realised!' What can be "held on", presented, conveyed, described, defined, and thus affirmed, promoted or propagated, is an experience. Which is an event in duality. And thus worth nothing. Blindfolded by the Bliss of the final 'success' (whose success?) he stops to scrutinize his condition and thus never finds out the truth: That he became a yoga- bhrashta, one who has fallen out of his yoga, his 'union'. That union, from which a "falling out" is a possibility, is already a dis-unioned case. Union is not a uniting. Union is the absence of the presence of any separation and the absence of the absence of the presence of any separation. The new and definite disguise of his ego...I is 'the Guru', and this last and most powerful pitfall never releases him, because he never recognises that he is its victim. Yes. That Guru for whom the distinction exists between a Guru vis-a-vis a sadhaka, is still the Self playing games. There are nowadays many whose Guru-pitfall caught them even much earlier on their path. There has been none which have been ever caught. There is no pitfall. There is no goal, relative to which the pitfall is the obstruction. There is no fall. There is no rise. There is no path, nor any to walk such no-paths. There is even no affirming of that-which-is, call it Self, or by any other term. Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Dear Gabriele: The question about what happens to a yogi who has not completed the journey is addressed clearly by Sri Krishna. See Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6, verses 37-45. Sri Ramana also used to say that there is hope for everyone. Once he said that even scholars and those who are infatuated with words and concepts will eventually get on with it as well. As you know Bhagavan was always advocated the direct path but was keen on finding out what a person's interest and background was and essentially supported whatever spiritual practice they were engaged in and was natural to them. The stories of devotees like Kunju Swami and others who saw him and lived with him are the most revealing. The beauty of Sri Ramana's generous grace is overwhelming. Love to all Harsha - "gabriele ebert" <g.ebert <RamanaMaharshi> Sunday, October 24, 2004 3:24 AM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Lucy Ma about the Guru-pitfall Dear Harsha, What does the Bhagavan Gita say about? Quite correct that "never" in this context takes away all possibilities of a change. This may not be according to Bhagavan, you are right. He always left open a chance for each one, never giving up any hope. That's wonderful with Bhagavan!! Yet the general thing Lucy Ma points out is only too true. yours in Sri Bhagavan Gabriele **************************************** Dear Gabriele: The sentiments expressed in the last two paragraphs by the author are flatly contradicted by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita in response to the question by Arjuna where Arjuna wonders what happens to the Yogi who does not succeed and falls from the path. Also, as far as I know Sri Ramana never used the word "never" in the context of someone failing permanently on the path. In fact, just the opposite, Bhagavan said something like .... one who has glimpsed the Self and tasted the joy of his own nature will not rest and will be attracted to it and continue to move in that direction until the realization is permanent. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Dear Harsha, Thanks for giving the source of Bhagavad Gita. I have looked up the verses in the German edition. It is said there that in each case practice can lead to good only, also if later one would fall out of this practice again. Bhagavan made a very interesting statement in Talk 95 referring to yogabrashta in Bhagavad Gita: "Experience is said to be temporary or permanent. The first experience is temporary and by concentration it can become permanent. In the former the bondage is not completely destroyed; it reamins subtle and reasserts itself in due course. But in the latter it is destroyed root and branch, never to appear again. The expression yogabrashta (those who have fallen down from yoga) in Srimad Bhagavad Gita refers to the fromer class of men." (from Talk 95) Yes, Bhagavan always went with the level of understanding of people. It is such a richness of compassion! Yes, and the beauty of his grace is overwhelming. yours in Sri Ramana Gabriele - Harsha RamanaMaharshi ; Monday, October 25, 2004 4:39 PM Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Lucy Ma about the Guru-pitfall Dear Gabriele:The question about what happens to a yogi who has not completed the journey is addressed clearly by Sri Krishna.See Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6, verses 37-45.Sri Ramana also used to say that there is hope for everyone. Once he said that even scholars and those who are infatuated with words and concepts will eventually get on with it as well.As you know Bhagavan was always advocated the direct path but was keen on finding out what a person's interest and background was and essentially supported whatever spiritual practice they were engaged in and was natural to them. The stories of devotees like Kunju Swami and others who saw him and lived with him are the most revealing.The beauty of Sri Ramana's generous grace is overwhelming.Love to allHarsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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