Who is moderating who ?

[Guest guest]

Dear All:

 

Merry Christmas, a Very Happy New Year and Very Happy Jayanthi

Celebrations to all Devotees.

 

I have been meaning to write on this topic for some time and finally

decided to do so, just once.

 

Is there a need to worry, for a sincere devotee, about who is

following what path or which 'understanding' of Shri. Bhagavaan's

teachings is "correct" and their relative accuracy/strengths?

 

Is there a need to get concerned that some of those self-

proclaimed 'teachers' of Bhagavaan's path might "mis-lead" the others

in these groups or elsewhere...?

 

Only if one assumes if they are "leading" the others in the "right"

path/understanding of Guru's teachings, they would worry there is

someone else out there "misleading" with or without fees; don't you

think so?

 

To my knowledge, more often than not, Shri. Ramana Bhagavaan always

chided His devotees rather than the 'supposed' antagonists whom they

are criticizing or are angry with.

 

Many of you might know that there have been occassions when outright

lies were perpetrated against Him, when others tried to initiate him

into sanyaasaa and when others proclaimed themselves to be even

superior to Him. He not only did not mind these, he also discouraged

his devotees from giving importance to any of these, isn't it?

 

"Well, conform to our understanding of what/how Shri. Ramana taught

or else..." doesn't augur well to the sincere devotees...; to my

knowledge there wasn't any moderation of who will visit Shri.

Ramanasramam and what they will say/do those days even while Shri.

Bhagavaan was present in the embodied form and I feel there is none

needed even for these virtual groups, but again this is just my

feeling.

 

If 'other' ideas are being put forth and members believe they are not

the 'right' ideas for Shri. Ramana devotees, may be no one should

respond and allow those 'ideas' to die down by themselves;

 

if some do get carried away, don't we know Shri. Bhagavaan's Grace

will pull them back if they are sincere seekers and those 'ideas' are

unsuitable for them?.. is there a need for our egos to make a

judgement call and 'caution' the devotees when we ourselves are

supposed to be 'seeking'...?

 

Shri. Ramana Bhagavaan's tolerance for lies, physical abuse,

falsification, 'other' ideas (including incorrect ones) are all well

known and I think his Infinite Compassion towards everyone without

exception are for us all to emulate as devotees...;

 

Will post two events narrated by Shri. Saadhu Om Swaamigal....

 

thanks and love to all, Murthy

[Guest guest]

Namaste dear murthy

Word for word your post was delightful. All that you say is true.

However, the subject line does need more reflection.

IMHO until all of us are effortlessly abiding in the self there will

be need for moderation - not for any fear of mis-guidance but to

maintain a conducive and pure atmosphere in this sat-sangha where all

types of devotees can feel at ease.

Even in Ramanasharam there were regulations and there were moderators

for the same reason.

As I said, as an attitude that we all should have in life, your post

is really beautiful word for word, however, I'd vote for moderation.

Many namaskarams to all

in his grace

Sridhar

 

RamanaMaharshi, "manof678" <manof678> wrote:

>

> Dear All:

>

 

>

> I have been meaning to write on this topic for some time and finally

> decided to do so, just once.

>

snip

>

> Is there a need to get concerned that some of those self-

> proclaimed 'teachers' of Bhagavaan's path might "mis-lead" the others

> in these groups or elsewhere...?

snip

>

> thanks and love to all, Murthy

[Guest guest]

Sri Ramana could be very blunt and to the point when required. He had a

great sense of humor. I remember the following incident...maybe someone

can look up the details. A person came to him and said that he had been

told in a dream by some deity or god to go and initiate Sri Ramana. Sri

Ramana said that the perhaps the same deity could come in his (Sri

Ramana's dream) and confirm it! Another incidence was when a party of

people came and claimed that Sehasdhari Swami (a friend of Bhagavan) who

had passed away was communicating with them from the other side. Sri

Ramana said that it was a pity that the Swami did not come and speak to

him directly given that they moved closely together when he was alive.

 

People were periodically "moderated" at Ramanaashram and shown the door

when needed with Bhagavan's implicit consent. Bhagavan did not want his

devotees to give up common sense or stop using their general

intelligence because they were spiritual, etc.

 

The central idea should be to follow the teachings but otherwise be

natural in one's dealing with others. It does not mean to be lovey dovey

with everyone all the time.

 

Love to all (but not lovey dovey to all :-)

Harsha

[Guest guest]

om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya

hrshtikhrishtajanmotsava

Dear Sri Murthy,

> To my knowledge, more often than not, Shri. Ramana Bhagavaan always chided His

> devotees rather than the 'supposed' antagonists whom they are criticizing or

> are angry with.

Regarding Bhagavan's teaching, the precedent was set with the 'Sat Darshana'

affair. [see Talks number 446 - 24th January, 1938...And of course K. Lakshmana

Sarma's (aka: 'Who') 'Maha Yoga' and elsewhere]. When Lakshmana Sarma approached

Sri Bhagavan and said in a prayerful attitude ,'If your teachings are

misinterpreted like this in your very lifetime, what will become of them in the

future? Will not people think that you have approved this book? Should not such

a wrong interpretation be openly condemned?' Sri Bhagavan replied, 'According

to the purity of the mind of each person, the same teaching is reflected in

different ways. If you think you can expound the teachings more faithfully, you

may write your own commentary.' (from Maha Yoga; vii) Here Bhagavan actively

encouraged Lakshmana Sarma to proceed. In later years, Sri Bhagavan is said to

have remarked that of all the commentaries Lakshmana Sarma's was indeed the

best.

> Many of you might know that there have been occassions when outright lies were

> perpetrated against Him, when others tried to initiate him into sanyaasaa and

> when others proclaimed themselves to be even superior to Him. He not only did

> not mind these, he also discouraged his devotees from giving importance to any

> of these, isn't it?

These were personal attacks. They had nothing to do with his teaching. As such

they were attacks which required no defence by Bhagavan, Himself, but might be

defended by His Bhaktas who found them difficult to bear.

Moderation on RamanaMaharshi list has always been a contentious issue.

Originally there was none... now, on occasion, there might be a little.

Without it, the focus of the list may be lost.

Kind Regards,

Miles

--

May the world be blessed for long with the feet of Guru Ramana who abides as

that silent principle which absorbs all of us and remains by itself as the root

of the three principles (soul, world and Iswara).

[Guest guest]

--- Harsha wrote:

 

> Sri Ramana could be very blunt and to the point when

> required. He had a

> great sense of humor. I remember the following

> incident...maybe someone

> can look up the details. A person came to him and

> said that he had been

> told in a dream by some deity or god to go and

> initiate Sri Ramana. Sri

> Ramana said that the perhaps the same deity could

> come in his (Sri

> Ramana's dream) and confirm it! Another incidence

> was when a party of

> people came and claimed that Sehasdhari Swami (a

> friend of Bhagavan) who

> had passed away was communicating with them from the

> other side. Sri

> Ramana said that it was a pity that the Swami did

> not come and speak to

> him directly given that they moved closely together

> when he was alive.

>

> People were periodically "moderated" at Ramanaashram

> and shown the door

> when needed with Bhagavan's implicit consent.

> Bhagavan did not want his

> devotees to give up common sense or stop using their

> general

> intelligence because they were spiritual, etc.

>

> The central idea should be to follow the teachings

> but otherwise be

> natural in one's dealing with others. It does not

> mean to be lovey dovey

> with everyone all the time.

>

> Love to all (but not lovey dovey to all :-)

> Harsha

>

>

************************************

 

Hello to Everyone,

I am recently new to this group, although not new to

Sri Bhagavan, who has been my inspiration for many

decades as a Vedantist. His incomparable message

completely penentrated my mind and heart when I was

very young; His guidance is something I would not want

to be without for even a day on this earth. I am so

grateful for His coming and remaining eternally with

us. I, too celebrate this event at this quiet time of

year, when Divine Love is celebrated throughout the

Christian world.

 

I have been reading the messages about "moderation"

with interest. I find the general tone and quality of

this website to be most excellent, and I think that is

because the members understand the true

Self-moderation. However, I agree with one member who

desires that there continue to be moderation as

needed. In Buddhism there is known to be such a thing

as "idiot-compassion"; I would therefore agree that

allowing something to remain off-center when a simple

and maybe even firm redirection would help, is a kind

of ignorance in itself. There is a place for

moderation when the true Self-moderation has been lost

(or not yet found!). But, I also believe that Sri

Ramana guides in an inscrutable way all the activities

of his devotees and students.

 

Thank you for this wonderful sharing in Bhagavan's

name and in His presence.

 

In love and in peace,

Sister Judith Thackray, OSAh

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.

http://celebrity.mail.

[Guest guest]

--- Harsha wrote:

 

> Sri Ramana could be very blunt and to the point when

> required. He had a

> great sense of humor. I remember the following

> incident...maybe someone

> can look up the details. A person came to him and

> said that he had been

> told in a dream by some deity or god to go and

> initiate Sri Ramana. Sri

> Ramana said that the perhaps the same deity could

> come in his (Sri

> Ramana's dream) and confirm it! Another incidence

> was when a party of

> people came and claimed that Sehasdhari Swami (a

> friend of Bhagavan) who

> had passed away was communicating with them from the

> other side. Sri

> Ramana said that it was a pity that the Swami did

> not come and speak to

> him directly given that they moved closely together

> when he was alive.

>

> People were periodically "moderated" at Ramanaashram

> and shown the door

> when needed with Bhagavan's implicit consent.

> Bhagavan did not want his

> devotees to give up common sense or stop using their

> general

> intelligence because they were spiritual, etc.

>

> The central idea should be to follow the teachings

> but otherwise be

> natural in one's dealing with others. It does not

> mean to be lovey dovey

> with everyone all the time.

>

> Love to all (but not lovey dovey to all :-)

> Harsha

>

>

************************************

 

Hello to Everyone,

I am recently new to this group, although not new to

Sri Bhagavan, who has been my inspiration for many

decades as a Vedantist. His incomparable message

completely penentrated my mind and heart when I was

very young; His guidance is something I would not want

to be without for even a day on this earth. I am so

grateful for His coming and remaining eternally with

us. I, too celebrate this event at this quiet time of

year, when Divine Love is celebrated throughout the

Christian world.

 

I have been reading the messages about "moderation"

with interest. I find the general tone and quality of

this website to be most excellent, and I think that is

because the members understand the true

Self-moderation. However, I agree with one member who

desires that there continue to be moderation as

needed. In Buddhism there is known to be such a thing

as "idiot-compassion"; I would therefore agree that

allowing something to remain off-center when a simple

and maybe even firm redirection would help, is a kind

of ignorance in itself. There is a place for

moderation when the true Self-moderation has been lost

(or not yet found!). But, I also believe that Sri

Ramana guides in an inscrutable way all the activities

of his devotees and students.

 

Thank you for this wonderful sharing in Bhagavan's

name and in His presence.

 

In love and in peace,

Sister Judith Thackray, OSAh

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.

http://celebrity.mail.

[Guest guest]

>

> Will post two events narrated by Shri. Saadhu Om Swaamigal....

>

> thanks and love to all, Murthy

 

*************

Is this the only lie?

 

- translated from Shri. Saadhu Om Swamigal's article (from the book

Shri. Ramana Vazhi (Path) in Tamil Vol. 4/Section 4/Chapter 3 pp. 362-

365)

 

The Sarvadhikari Shri. Niranjanaanandha Swami felt that Shri.

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's biography should be first written and

published in Tamil. But an ardent devotee called Shri. B.V. Narasimha

Swami was enthusiastically collecting all the details (some even by

checking directly with Bhagavan) for writing a biography in English.

The incident presented here happened even before this English work

was published.

 

A Malayalam writer visited the Ashram to have Bhagavan's Dharsan. May

be due to his habit of writing biographies of the Great Souls he

meets or may be he was greatly moved by devotion towards Bhagavaan,

he wanted to write Bhagavan's life history in Malayalam. He started

collecting details from several locals about who Bhagavan Ramana

Maharshi is, where was he born etc. etc.

 

The common folks, who do not understand that the real greatness of a

Great Soul is His or Her Self-Absorption, start attibuting all kinds

of miracles to them. Our Bhagavan did not escape such gossips either.

The Malayalee writer unfortuntely must have received all his inputs

from only such people. For instnace, his biography said 'Bhagavan is

a householder. He is a famous lawyer in Madurai. He has three

children. He did such and such miracles in such and such places..." ;

but he could get all these information rather quickly helping him to

compile a "Ramana Biography" in Malayalam in a very short period of

time. He brought it to Bhagavan. In those days, among the devotees

who were with Bhagavan, only Shri. Kunju Swamigal knew to read, write

and speak Malayalam (it was his mother tongue). Unfortunately he was

not in town then.

 

Meanwhile, Bhagavan, who could even compose verses in Malayalam read

through the text, did proof reading and after correcting some

typographical mistakes here and there without changing the content of

the so-called biography, returned it to the author. The Malayalee

writer was very happy that Bhagavan himself read through it and also

made some corrections thereby giving his approval to the biography.

By this time, the news that a Malayalam biography is completed and

also has the approval of Bhagavan spread fast among the ashram

devotees. But no one knew exactly about the content of this biography.

 

Shri. Kunju Swamigal who returned the next day heard from others that

a Malayalam Biography of Bhagavan is completed and was even approved

by Bhagavan. He felt very happy, obtained the biography from the

author and read it through. He was immediately shocked that the

contents were all absoutely false and couldn't just bear the fact

that even Bhagavan approved of it. He mentioned to the writer the

biography is full of mistakes and false details and suggested may be

the writer got the details from ignorant folks who did not really

know about Bhagavan. The writer was emphatic in saying that the

biography was accurate and very authentic as it was corrected and

approved by Bhagavan himself.

 

Shri. Kunju Swamigal rushed to Bhagavan with shock and sadness and

asked 'Oh Bhagavanee ! This Biography contains lots of mistakes and

false details but it has only some minor corrections in your

handwriting. Is this all true?". Bhagavan very calmly looked at Shri.

Kunju Swamigal and pointing to everything around (the world) them,

said : "As though everything else is true, is this the only lie" ?

 

Though this comment of Bhagavan was in good humor, we should note the

deep import of this statement. For Bhagavan, neither the world nor

the ego that sees the world are true. For those who think they are

the body and real, the world and the biorgraphies will also appear

true. Such people will no doubt get upset and angry if mistakes or

false details of their life are presented. But Bhagavan, on the other

hand not only remained unfluttered by the falsehood that got into the

so-called biography but also did not bother to correct them. For him,

there was abosolutely no difference between a true biography and a

false one. Even his own birth, renunciation, becoming a Jagadguru

were all false in his perception.

 

The above incident also cautions all devotees in another way: Don't

we devotees many a times think that we have the direct approval from

Bhagavan for many of our beliefs and behaviours? Shouldn't we think

that even this approval could be like Bhagavan's approval of the

above mentioned Malayalam Biography?

*************

[Guest guest]

color:navy">

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">manof678

[manof678 ]

Thursday, December 23, 2004

9:16 PM

RamanaMaharshi

[RamanaMaharshi] Re: Who

is moderating who ?

12.0pt">

10.0pt">This Biography contains lots of mistakes and

false

details but it has only some minor corrections in your

handwriting.

Is this all true?". Bhagavan very calmly looked at Shri.

Kunju

Swamigal and pointing to everything around (the world) them,

said :

"As though everything else is true, is this the only lie" ?

Though this

comment of Bhagavan was in good humor, we should note the

deep import

of this statement. For Bhagavan, neither the world nor

the ego that

sees the world are true. For those who think they are

the body and

real, the world and the biorgraphies will also appear

true. Such

people will no doubt get upset and angry if mistakes or

false

details of their life are presented. But Bhagavan, on the other

hand not

only remained unfluttered by the falsehood that got into the

so-called

biography but also did not bother to correct them. For him,

there was

abosolutely no difference between a true biography and a

false one.

Even his own birth, renunciation, becoming a Jagadguru

were all

false in his perception.

font-family:Arial">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">*****Thank you for sharing this wonderful story

of Bhagavan. What is said below, however, appears questionable.

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

12.0pt">

The

above incident also cautions all devotees in another way: Don't

we devotees

many a times think that we have the direct approval from

Bhagavan for

many of our beliefs and behaviours? Shouldn't we think

that even

this approval could be like Bhagavan's approval of the

above

mentioned Malayalam Biography?

*************

*******No, that would be the wrong

moral to take away from the story, and in fact, gets away from Bhagavan’s

true teaching. The old devotees used to say that Bhagavan (through his look,

silence) would make us like Him Self. The point is to Be like Bhagavan knowing

the Self. By indulging in fanciful imagination as to what Bhagavan would or

would not approve, one gets away from the pure and simple teaching of Be As You

Are and abide in your nature giving no room for this or that thought of being

of any special consequence.

 

Bhagavan used to say that there are

basically two ways to Self-Realization. One is complete surrender. If one is

completely surrendered, there is no room for the ego so thoughts of

Bhagavan’s approval or non approval, etc. cannot rise.

 

Let me give another example. Recently, we

have heard some devotees say that only one in a 1000 or one in a million gets

realized and that is a depressing statistic. They quote Sri Krishna and others

in support of their position. So we see that it is easy to get side tracked

into speculation. Certainly Sri Krishna has not told anyone to be depressed or

anything and neither did Bhagavan. In fact, Bhagavan said that without giving

room to doubt about whether is is possible to achieve realization in this life,

one should enquire within. Bhagavan said either surrender with full awareness

that the mind with all its distractions can only go so far and then the Grace

has to take over and do rest of the job or enquire with awareness into the

source of the “I”.

 

This is the essential teaching and rest is

only helpful commentary.

 

Love to all

Harsha

color:navy">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

[Guest guest]

Dear Harsha-ji and All:

 

just one clarification: all text between the ****** lines in my

posting about Malayalam Biography was translation from Shri. Saadhu

Om Swamigal's book.

 

Mistakes, if any, in translation are due to my inept translation

skills. I tried my best to stick to the original tamil text's

import/meaning and I will be happy to correct myself if someone

points out any mistakes.

 

Shri. Saadhu Om Swamigal's views and commentaries as expressed in

that book(which I understand is a compilation done by devotees of

Bhagavan and Swamigal and is a Ramanasramam publication) are for

reader's contemplation and application(like pretty much anything

else in Shri. Ramana Bhagavan's literature)

 

thanks and love to all, Murthy

 

>

> *****Thank you for sharing this wonderful story of Bhagavan. What

is said

> below, however, appears questionable.

>

> *************

>

> *******No, that would be the wrong moral to take away from the

story, and in

> fact, gets away from Bhagavan's true teaching. The old devotees

used to say

[Guest guest]

>

>

> The above incident also cautions all devotees in another way:

Don't

> we devotees many a times think that we have the direct approval

from

> Bhagavan for many of our beliefs and behaviours? Shouldn't we

think

> that even this approval could be like Bhagavan's approval of the

> above mentioned Malayalam Biography?

> *************

>

> *******No, that would be the wrong moral to take away from the

story, and in

> fact, gets away from Bhagavan's true teaching. The old devotees

used to say

> that Bhagavan (through his look, silence) would make us like Him

Self. The

> point is to Be like Bhagavan knowing the Self. By indulging in

fanciful

> imagination as to what Bhagavan would or would not approve, one

gets away

> from the pure and simple teaching of Be As You Are and abide in

your nature

 

Dear Harsha-ji:

 

absolutely,; I think Shri. Sadhu Om Swamigal's words are very much

in line with your thinking. Isn't he discouraging those

theoreticians who are trying to impress on 'others' that their

understanding 'are' the only right ones in representing Bhagavan's

path? Instead I think all of Swamigal's words suggest strongly that

one should just get going "in their own" seeking with their own

understanding of Bhagavan's teaching . Even if one's understanding

and application of the teachings for their own seeking is incorrect,

in due course, Bhagavan will set it right, won't He?

 

love and thanks for your response....Murthy

[Guest guest]

Dear Harsha and Murthy,

 

both may be true according to ripeness. If surrender to Bhagavan is complete

there is certainly no more need to ask approval from Bhagavan - but until then

it may indeed be useful to do silently and pray perhaps in the manner: "May

only Thy will be done!" This is here still daily practice and will continue

this way until it drops off by itself, until surrender is completed. Or one

may pray: "Om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya" - which is just the same ... and

let's the ego sink back to its source ... may be a form of atma-vichara too.

Then one may not worry about anymore ... Bhagavan takes care. This is

wonderful.

 

Trust all have a peaceful Christmas.

Here was some celebration at home with singing and reading of the Christmas

story and also some presents of course

 

yours in Sri Bhagavan and in Sri Christus

Gabriele

 

 

 

The above incident also cautions all devotees in another way: Don't we devotees

many a times think that we have the direct approval from Bhagavan for many of

our beliefs and behaviours? Shouldn't we think that even this approval could be

like Bhagavan's approval of the above mentioned Malayalam

Biography?********************No, that would be the wrong moral to take away

from the story, and in fact, gets away from Bhagavan’s true teaching. The old

devotees used to say that Bhagavan (through his look, silence) would make us

like Him Self. The point is to Be like Bhagavan knowing the Self. By indulging

in fanciful imagination as to what Bhagavan would or would not approve, one

gets away from the pure and simple teaching of Be As You Are and abide in your

nature giving no room for this or that thought of being of any special

consequence.

 

Bhagavan used to say that there are basically two ways to Self-Realization. One

is complete surrender. If one is completely surrendered, there is no room for

the ego so thoughts of Bhagavan’s approval or non approval, etc. cannot rise.

 

Let me give another example. Recently, we have heard some devotees say that only

one in a 1000 or one in a million gets realized and that is a depressing

statistic. They quote Sri Krishna and others in support of their position. So

we see that it is easy to get side tracked into speculation. Certainly Sri

Krishna has not told anyone to be depressed or anything and neither did

Bhagavan. In fact, Bhagavan said that without giving room to doubt about

whether is is possible to achieve realization in this life, one should enquire

within. Bhagavan said either surrender with full awareness that the mind with

all its distractions can only go so far and then the Grace has to take over and

do rest of the job or enquire with awareness into the source of the “I”.

 

This is the essential teaching and rest is only helpful commentary.

 

Love to all

Harsha

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[Guest guest]

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dear Murthy-Ji:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Your translation was fine, I am sure. My

response was not dependent on who wrote those comments.

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The basic point was that those comments (evidently

by

10.0pt">Shri. Saadhu Om Swamigal) ask the

devotees to indulge in fruitless speculation and distract from Bhagavan’s

direct teaching. The author gives his opinion in the guise of a lesson or moral

to the excellent story that had been recited. While the opinion may have some

merit, based on the author’s own experience, it is not relevant to

Bhagavan’s teachings of the Self.

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Love to all

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Harsha

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">manof678

[manof678 ]

Friday, December 24, 2004

2:26 PM

RamanaMaharshi

[RamanaMaharshi] Re: Who

is moderating who ?

12.0pt">

font-family:"Courier New"">

Dear Harsha-ji and All:

just one clarification: all text between the

****** lines in my

posting about Malayalam Biography was translation

from Shri. Saadhu

Om Swamigal's book.

Mistakes, if any, in translation are due to my

inept translation

skills. I tried my best to stick to the original

tamil text's

import/meaning and I will be happy to correct

myself if someone

points out any mistakes.

Shri. Saadhu Om Swamigal's views and commentaries

as expressed in

that book(which I understand is a compilation done

by devotees of

Bhagavan and Swamigal and is a Ramanasramam

publication) are for

reader's contemplation and application(like pretty

much anything

else in Shri. Ramana Bhagavan's literature)

thanks and love to all, Murthy

>

> *****Thank you for sharing this wonderful

story of Bhagavan. What

is said

> below, however, appears questionable.

>

> *************

>

> *******No, that would be the wrong moral to

take away from the

story, and in

> fact, gets away from Bhagavan's true

teaching. The old devotees

used to say

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[Guest guest]

Dear Gabriele:

 

Yes, prayer in any form to Bhagavan must be good! Thoughts of Bhagavan

are auspicious and call forth the Grace that reveals It Self as the Self.

 

Merry Christmas and love to all

Harsha

 

gabriele ebert wrote:

 

> Dear Harsha and Murthy,

> both may be true according to ripeness. If surrender to Bhagavan is

> complete there is certainly no more need to ask approval from Bhagavan

> - but until then

> it may indeed be useful to do silently and pray perhaps in the manner:

> "May only Thy will be done!" This is here still daily practice and

> will continue this way until it drops off by itself, until surrender

> is completed. Or one may pray: "Om namo bhagavate sri ramanaya" -

> which is just the same ... and let's the ego sink back to its source

> ... may be a form of atma-vichara too. Then one may not worry about

> anymore ... Bhagavan takes care. This is wonderful.

> Trust all have a peaceful Christmas.

> Here was some celebration at home with singing and reading of the

> Christmas story and also some presents of course

> yours in Sri Bhagavan and in Sri Christus

> Gabriele

>

>

> The above incident also cautions all devotees in another way: Don't

> we devotees many a times think that we have the direct approval from

> Bhagavan for many of our beliefs and behaviours? Shouldn't we think

> that even this approval could be like Bhagavan's approval of the

> above mentioned Malayalam Biography?

> *************

>

> *******No, that would be the wrong moral to take away from the

> story, and in fact, gets away from Bhagavan’s true teaching. The

> old devotees used to say that Bhagavan (through his look, silence)

> would make us like Him Self. The point is to Be like Bhagavan

> knowing the Self. By indulging in fanciful imagination as to what

> Bhagavan would or would not approve, one gets away from the pure

> and simple teaching of Be As You Are and abide in your nature

> giving no room for this or that thought of being of any special

> consequence.

>

> Bhagavan used to say that there are basically two ways to

> Self-Realization. One is complete surrender. If one is completely

> surrendered, there is no room for the ego so thoughts of

> Bhagavan’s approval or non approval, etc. cannot rise.

>

> Let me give another example. Recently, we have heard some devotees

> say that only one in a 1000 or one in a million gets realized and

> that is a depressing statistic. They quote Sri Krishna and others

> in support of their position. So we see that it is easy to get

> side tracked into speculation. Certainly Sri Krishna has not told

> anyone to be depressed or anything and neither did Bhagavan. In

> fact, Bhagavan said that without giving room to doubt about

> whether is is possible to achieve realization in this life, one

> should enquire within. Bhagavan said either surrender with full

> awareness that the mind with all its distractions can only go so

> far and then the Grace has to take over and do rest of the job or

> enquire with awareness into the source of the “I”.

>

> This is the essential teaching and rest is only helpful commentary.

>

> Love to all

>

> Harsha

>