Meditation and the dialy experiences

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody,

 

In a state of meditation we might end up with two experience

 

1. A state of mano-laya.

Where you only see the quite consious observing every thing and in

course of time the thoughts in the mind tends to reduce.

 

2. A short state of mano-nasha.

This is a spuradic instance where-in you loose the touch with this

consious too and you are in an undefinable void. Which, you can only

realize after waking up from that state. Usually this is a state

where you dont quite know how long you were in that state but you

will be aware of being in that state only. This to me sounded almost

equal to deep sleep (but I found that I was not soring after

enquiring others).

 

Anyway, even in this short state of mano-nasha, I still think people

like Ramana could feel a sence of being in that state rather being

felt as if lost in the void. If not what difference is there between

deep-sleep and the spuradic instance of mano-nasha state.

 

The reason to claim why Ramana was aware of the self is, because

during the state of mano-laya if you ever had an experience of your

body falling off, then you will experience that the consious and the

body and/or mind so distinctly in that short gap where you switch back

from your conscious to the body to bring it back into the meditation

posture.

 

Let the sadh guru guide us all as quickly as possible to that state

of enligthenment of which we are so eagerly awaiting to understand it

in complete. As he had experienced with not even a pinch of doubt.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks & Regards,

Dileep

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Here are a few thoughts - I guess the experiences of enlightnement

and realization will never be the same as the conceptions, just as

reading the menu is never the same as tasting the food. Recently I

have been meditating by simply asumming the position and being.

Using the question "who am I?who is meditating?" etc - sudden

tensions arise behind the eyes, like im trying to focus on some far

away object. Sometimes a voice seems to pop up and say "here I am,

you know me, its me - You - ive been here all along!" Today these

same things popped up but I just watched them, by watching them I

thought "Ahh - If I can see them/feel them - there not me and so on.

Ive never felt that I was very good at meditation - I like it but

sometimes it feels quite stressful! - like balancing on a high wire -

however today i seemed to slip into somthing much nicer yet totaly

ordinary - similar to sleep, easy, natural and restful. It seemed to

lack the wow factor of being anything signifigant, but I guess thats

my point, (these are refelections to myself) - Maybe I have a

tendancy to make what is natural and easy into somthing amazing and

difficult! I guess its probably a bit of both - for example it was a

nice place to be, but I couldnt have sat there for a couple of days,

in the way that you hear of some doing. However as I type I still

feel peaceful.

 

Although my terminology isnt great there is one thing I do know - I

have always loved to sleep. I cant rember much when I wake up give

or take the odd dream, but I have always enjoyed the calmness that I

expreinece on waking - combined with a sense of sadness (especially

on monday mornings) that I have to leave that place - The strange

thing is I have never been there - Is that becase in that state I

doenst exist - It would all seem to tie in.

 

I guess thats why in deep sleep their is no fear of death. Thus the

great wish that when I go I drift away in my sleep. These feel like

clues - pointers, just rember who you are in deep sleep.

 

Before my recent re-awakining of interest in Ramana I was reading

some books by Ken Wilber. In One Taste he describes his ability to

maintain awareness into sleep, passing through various stages until

concious arival in the very depths of being - transcending all

duality etc This seems like pretty standard for people a cirtian way

up the spiritual pole (as it were!) I have read similar descriptions

from Tibetian references. Has anyone here experienced such

awareness? Being a great fan of sleeping, it is somthing I would

love to develop! I guess though(to me)it seems tricky remaining

mindful in the world yet alone - deep sleep! - any thoughts?

 

I have from time to time been involved with other e-groups, However

I say again that their is an eloquence and practical usefulness in

the messages here that is really uplifting. My messages feel

slightly arkward in comparison - however I hope that they keep in

spirit of the group.

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "simhadileep"

<simhadileep> wrote:

>

> Hi everybody,

>

> In a state of meditation we might end up with two experience

>

> 1. A state of mano-laya.

> Where you only see the quite consious observing every thing and

in

> course of time the thoughts in the mind tends to reduce.

>

> 2. A short state of mano-nasha.

> This is a spuradic instance where-in you loose the touch with

this

> consious too and you are in an undefinable void. Which, you can

only

> realize after waking up from that state. Usually this is a state

> where you dont quite know how long you were in that state but you

> will be aware of being in that state only. This to me sounded

almost

> equal to deep sleep (but I found that I was not soring after

> enquiring others).

>

> Anyway, even in this short state of mano-nasha, I still think

people

> like Ramana could feel a sence of being in that state rather being

> felt as if lost in the void. If not what difference is there

between

> deep-sleep and the spuradic instance of mano-nasha state.

>

> The reason to claim why Ramana was aware of the self is, because

> during the state of mano-laya if you ever had an experience of

your

> body falling off, then you will experience that the consious and

the

> body and/or mind so distinctly in that short gap where you switch

back

> from your conscious to the body to bring it back into the

meditation

> posture.

>

> Let the sadh guru guide us all as quickly as possible to that

state

> of enligthenment of which we are so eagerly awaiting to understand

it

> in complete. As he had experienced with not even a pinch of doubt.

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Thanks & Regards,

> Dileep

[Guest guest]

Dear Ed,

 

will try to respond to some points of you mail - but can't say how much it will be fitting for you

at all.

 

<< Here are a few thoughts - I guess the experiences of enlightnement and

realization will never be the same as the conceptions, just as reading the menu

is never the same as tasting the food. Recently I have been meditating by

simply asumming the position and being.

 

Indeed. Yet the experience must be common to all already as it is our natural

being.

 

 

<< Using the question "who am I?who is meditating?" etc - sudden tensions

arise behind the eyes, like im trying to focus on some far away object.

Sometimes a voice seems to pop up and say "here I am, you know me, its me - You

- ive been here all along!" Today these same things popped up but I just watched

them, by watching them I thought "Ahh - If I can see them/feel them - there not

me and so on. Ive never felt that I was very good at meditation - I like it

but sometimes it feels quite stressful! - like balancing on a high wire

-however today i seemed to slip into somthing much nicer yet totaly ordinary -

similar to sleep, easy, natural and restful. It seemed to lack the wow factor

of being anything signifigant, but I guess thats my point, (these are

refelections to myself) - Maybe I have a tendancy to make what is natural and

easy into somthing amazing and difficult! I guess its probably a bit of both -

for example it was a nice place to be, but I couldnt have sat there for a

couple of days, in the way that you hear of some doing. However as I type I

still feel peaceful.

 

Whatever appearances may come during meditation in whatever form or voice, kill them by the quest

of "Who am I". In Zen meditation there is a saying that one even shall kill the Buddha in

case he may appear. If one would say the same here on Ramana - some devotees perhaps

may not agree But the point is that whatever appears will disappear again and whatever heard

will disappear again ... it is all based on the I-thought. Where is the source?

It may be nice to slip into a kind of sleep, manolaya, but in Zen then the Zen

master comes with a stick

and will awake you with a beating: Wush ... and here you are back

The Zen master never agrees to manolaya and does here a great service to the

disciple. He/she know why.

Meditation shall be done with full awareness. Clinging to one thought and return

there is of help - or

concentration on the breath - how it comes, how it goes ...

<< Although my terminology isnt great there is one thing I do know - I have

always loved to sleep. I cant rember much when I wake up give or take the odd

dream, but I have always enjoyed the calmness that I expreinece on waking -

combined with a sense of sadness (especially on monday mornings) that I have to

leave that place - The strange thing is I have never been there - Is that becase

in that state I doenst exist - It would all seem to tie in.

 

I also love to sleep - most of all I came to value it when I suffered a phase of

hard sleeplessness

Well, it is a pointer - we feel happy in deep sleep - but we must come to

awareness.<<I guess thats why in deep sleep their is no fear of death. Thus

the great wish that when I go I drift away in my sleep. These feel like clues

- pointers, just rember who you are in deep sleep.

 

Indeed<<Before my recent re-awakining of interest in Ramana I was reading some

books by Ken Wilber. In One Taste he describes his ability to maintain

awareness into sleep, passing through various stages until concious arival in

the very depths of being - transcending all duality etc This seems like pretty

standard for people a cirtian way up the spiritual pole (as it were!) I have

read similar descriptions from Tibetian references. Has anyone here

experienced such awareness? Being a great fan of sleeping, it is somthing I

would love to develop! I guess though(to me)it seems tricky remaining mindful

in the world yet alone - deep sleep! - any thoughts?

 

Practice is for first to do sadhana during the waking hours. If this is done without interruption,

there is no need to care for the sleep-state. It will turn out all right by

itself - I am sure.<<I have from time to time been involved with other

e-groups, However I say again that their is an eloquence and practical

usefulness in the messages here that is really uplifting. My messages feel

slightly arkward in comparison - however I hope that they keep in spirit of the

group.

 

Ok - nice to have you here.<<Thanks,<<Ed

 

Gabriele