Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Hi, Having read your message, I had a few thoughts. 1. I think that ominpresence might be like the moon being reflected in a thousand dew drops - thus it appears in all beings whilst remaining transcendent and untouched. 2. I think this realtiy must be felt within ones being in order to create the serenity of trancendance (I guess where you no-lomger fear death). I personally can see it and can think it, however Im not sure I feel it - I guess that point could be regarded as enlightenment, when you pass beyond belief into a felt truth. - Those were my reflections Ed --- RamanaMaharshi wrote: > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or > disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health > awareness efforts! > http://us.click./UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > --~-> > > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Efficacy of Bhakti > swathi dora <doraksp > 2. Is the self omni-present > "simhadileep" > <simhadileep > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:53:43 +0000 (GMT) > swathi dora <doraksp > Efficacy of Bhakti > > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya. > > When asked about the efficacy of bhakti, Sri > Bhagavan said : So long as there is vibhakti, there > must be bhakti. So long as there is viyoga, there > must be yoga. So long as there is duality, there > must be God and devotee. Similarly also in vichara. > So long as there is vichara, there is duality too. > But merging into the Source there is unity only. So > it is with bhakti too. Realising the God of > devotion, there will be unity only. God too is > thought of in and by the Self. So God is identical > with the Self. If one is told to have bhakti for God > and he does so straightaway, it is allright. But > there is another kind of man who turns round and > says : "There are two, I and God. Before knowing the > far-off God, let me know the more immediate and > intimate 'I'." For him the vichara-marga has to be > taught. There is in fact no differance between > bhakti and vichara. ( From Talk 154 ). > > Dora > > India Matrimony: Find your life > partneronline. > > [This message contained attachments] > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:15:28 -0000 > "simhadileep" <simhadileep > Is the self omni-present > > > Hi, > > With Bhagavan's grace though I am much easily able > to keep in touch > with my self-awareness (my pure conscious) and see > it not being > affected by the thoughts of good or bad quality. > There seem to raise > a question (a thought) again to ask isn't this > self-awareness just an > awareness within and not an awareness which I feel > in all leaving and > non-leaving things. In other words isn't this > awareness just > localized to me as appose to being omni-present as > its claimed to be? > > Though I have my own answers to this, I need to > know if the rest of > you feel that its a logically correct answer. Here > are my answers > > 1. Since all leaving and non-leaving things are > present only when > there is a thought (in the state of awakeness or > dream) this question > remains a false question since none of these things > really exist at > the first place. > > 2. Since, like me all people have the same > awareness as I do of the > conscious and the experience is same across the > board, the same > awareness is present in all beings making it > omni-present. > > Is such answers enough to conclude that I am > omni-present or is > there a higher state of awareness (which I am still > missing) where I > could literally feel myself in everything; like > Bhagavan did in the > humans and the animal alike. > > I think there is a higher state of awareness which > we get aquainted > to one practicing this self-enquiry futher. I could > not find any of > the people asking this to Bhagavan in any of their > discusions with > Bhagavan. > > Thanks & Regards > Dileep > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: > RamanaMaharshi- > Un: > RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > ------ > Links > > > RamanaMaharshi > > > ------ > > > > > _________ ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Dear Dileep, (Preface: Please consider all our answers as blind leading the blind. Instead, let us pray to the Inner Guru to provide us the insight as to what this state is and what to do next. If we are on the path of Vichara, whether we do it right or wrong, sooner or later Ramana shows the right way. And if you are investigating your self or even your mind's state, that is Vichara, no doubt. There is not much the ego can do to see or be Pure Awareness. Pure Awareness shines when ego subsides. Having said that, let us have the courage to share our thoughts...with prayers that at least in between the lines, we find answers.) *** It is possible that while practicing vichara, we first get into a state where thoughts slow down and become incoherent. There may be partial loss of world-awareness. This state is like sleep or half-sleep in that there is not much effort to think and do. It's unlike sleep in that, the awareness or a witness like feeling still remains! Is this the realized state? The Turiya? Samadhi? No, because, in this state, or after this state, doubts occur, this is not the final state of 'Pure Awareness'. However, it is a good sign because we are able to slow down the mad rush of the mind and thoughts and voluntarily go from wakefulness to sleep or to dreams. This is a very valuable awareness experience. However, since when we come out of this stupor and find ourselves and others to ask questions to, this state is a form of manolaya (concentration of the mind) and not the manonasa (destruction of ego, which is a collection of our thought-bundles). In fact, even during this sleep-like state, these doubts and our observation that where are the other objects, occur in a very minute diminished thoughts (seed form). The effort=making ego is still there even though in a very subtle form. In vedantic words this awareness (more an observer than an actor) is called Chidabasa, or Karana sharira (Causal Body), a reduced form of the physical body and the mind. You say, "I am able to keep in touch with my pure awareness." This conscious experience means that this 'I' is still a little 'I'. Ramana advises against this stupor and tells us not to mistake this for the blissful, fully aware, doubtfree, omniscient and omnipotent state of Self. He says, 'if this state occurs, shake out the feeling and turn your attention inward further, asking 'who is experiencing this state?'' There are couple of instances he has talked about this. There is an instance narrated in Kunju Swami's reminiscences, of a young man who liked to get into Laya Samadhi often and ignored his career, family etc. When he visited Ashrama, Ramana instructed Kunju Swami and others to constantly engage him in talking and walking to make sure he does not rest in a place. The visitor got out of this taste for laya. The other is the most popular story of a yogi who asked his disciples for a glass of water and went to Laya. many many years passed and he came out of it and asked, 'Where is the water I asked for?' Ramana then told that thus Laya is useless in making any progress. Only in the waking state are the vasanas (tendencies to think and act and imagine) are brought out and burnt (through discriminatively ignoring them) never to return. Only this state will lead to the state of mano-nasam or state of destructed mind. In Upadesa Undiyar he clearly defines: That which subsides or gets concentrated, will rise again. Only when destructed, it will never rise again. *** Even though I am not a realized soul, I might not have even understood your question right, and my words are blind leading the blind, let me still say that I feel that this experience is a good stepping stone to the Pure Awareness. Just dont stop there. Whenever we stop and recount, it is an act of the ego that tries to play games. RamanaMaharshi, "simhadileep" <simhadileep> wrote: > > Hi, > > With Bhagavan's grace though I am much easily able to keep in touch > with my self-awareness (my pure conscious) and see it not being > affected by the thoughts of good or bad quality. There seem to raise > a question (a thought) again to ask isn't this self-awareness just an > awareness within and not an awareness which I feel in all leaving and > non-leaving things. In other words isn't this awareness just > localized to me as appose to being omni-present as its claimed to be? > > Though I have my own answers to this, I need to know if the rest of > you feel that its a logically correct answer. Here are my answers > > 1. Since all leaving and non-leaving things are present only when > there is a thought (in the state of awakeness or dream) this question > remains a false question since none of these things really exist at > the first place. > > 2. Since, like me all people have the same awareness as I do of the > conscious and the experience is same across the board, the same > awareness is present in all beings making it omni-present. > > Is such answers enough to conclude that I am omni-present or is > there a higher state of awareness (which I am still missing) where I > could literally feel myself in everything; like Bhagavan did in the > humans and the animal alike. > > I think there is a higher state of awareness which we get aquainted > to one practicing this self-enquiry futher. I could not find any of > the people asking this to Bhagavan in any of their discusions with > Bhagavan. > > Thanks & Regards > Dileep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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