Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Dear All How can one continue inquiry in state of physical pain? Injury? or illness its like trying to say I am not a body but then I feel the pain. one may ask oneself who feels the pain? But then is it enough to overcome the feeling of physical discomfort ? Has Maharshi said anything on this situation ? or do you have any experience where you overcame feeling of physical pain, illness, or even simple stomach upset ? ArvindSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Dear Arvind, Maharshi used to answer when asked if was experiencing pain from the sarkoma something like: yes, there is pain, but it belongs to the body. He didn't identify with it and so it was somehow dulled and far away, I guess. As far as the ordinary sadhaka is concerned, pain and illness have the power to hinder your inquiry. I believe that this is the reason why it is mentioned in various scriptures that a healthy body (free from continous pain) is necessary for a seeker on the spiritual path. Best wishes chris On Apr 29, 2005, at 10:47, Arvind Mulay wrote: > Dear All > How can one continue inquiry in state of physical pain? Injury? or > illness > its like trying to say I am not a body but then I feel the pain. one > may ask oneself who feels the pain? But then is it enough to overcome > the feeling of physical discomfort ? > Has Maharshi said anything on this situation ? or do you have any > experience where you overcame feeling of > physical pain, illness, or even simple stomach upset ? > Arvind > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger. > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Our Shortcut URL: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > <a href="http://technorati.com/tag/ramanamaharshi" > rel="tag">ramanamaharshi</a> > > > Links > • > RamanaMaharshi/ > > • > RamanaMaharshi > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Thanks indeed for your reply. I was only asking as an ordinary sadhaka about the pain. It was my concern because for ordinary novice person, temporary pain/discomfort has power to stop enquiry and raise all sorts of doubts about the sadhana and even sometimes act/say things one would not say otherwise. Its only after pain/discomfort has gone away that one realises that there was temporary lapse in the practice and regret it.Many thanks & regards, Arvind.christiane cameron <christianecameron (AT) mac (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Arvind,Maharshi used to answer when asked if was experiencing pain from the sarkoma something like: yes, there is pain, but it belongs to the body. He didn't identify with it and so it was somehow dulled and far away, I guess.As far as the ordinary sadhaka is concerned, pain and illness have the power to hinder your inquiry. I believe that this is the reason why it is mentioned in various scriptures that a healthy body (free from continous pain) is necessary for a seeker on the spiritual path.Best wisheschrisOn Apr 29, 2005, at 10:47, Arvind Mulay wrote:> Dear All> How can one continue inquiry in state of physical pain? Injury? or > illness> its like trying to say I am not a body but then I feel the pain. one > may ask oneself who feels the pain? But then is it enough to overcome > the feeling of physical discomfort ?> Has Maharshi said anything on this situation ? or do you have any > experience where you overcame feeling of> physical pain, illness, or even simple stomach upset ?> Arvind>> Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.>> Community email addresses:> Post message: RamanaMaharshi> Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-> Un: RamanaMaharshi> List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner>> Our Shortcut URL:> http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi> go to:> RamanaMaharshi/> > • To from this group, send an email to:> RamanaMaharshi> > • Terms of > Service.>>Monsoonhouse Int.Kovalam/Keralacontact: christianecameron (AT) mac (DOT) comSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Dear Arvind, I share your experience, but the ability to remain in consciousness while experiencing pain gets better as practice gets stronger. May Bhagawan protect us from any illness that effects the brain and the related systems though. Best wishes chris > Dear Chris, > Thanks indeed for your reply. I was only asking as an ordinary sadhaka > about the pain. > It was my concern because for ordinary novice person, temporary > pain/discomfort has power to stop enquiry and raise all sorts of > doubts about the sadhana and even sometimes act/say things one would > not say otherwise. Its only after pain/discomfort has gone away that > one realises that there was temporary lapse in the practice and regret > it. > Many thanks & regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dear Arvind, 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">From my own experience I agree with you that physical pain does seem to make Atma Vichara more difficult. But it is not impossible. Perhaps, when there is a lot of pain, one can only do it for a few moments at a time… and then keep returning to it for another few moments at a time. It seems one just needs to continue as best one can. Even the little bit of strength one may gain from the attempt during difficult times can be of great help in quieter/easier periods. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I feel what can make it even more difficult is the notion that we should be able to ‘overcome the feeling of pain’ through the practice of Vichara. I think ‘overcoming’ is a different aim altogether. After all we don’t talk about using VIchara to overcome the feeling of pleasantness which arises from looking at a beautiful sky or face. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">When pain is particularly intense or of long duration and/or the brain has got tired, I sometimes find it helpful to use Japa. This can have the effect of keeping a certain stillness and stableness in the mind and even allow one to stay with the pain and relate to it more from the Heart. . . . then later returning to Self Inquiry when the mind is more settled and an inner focus can be felt. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Sometimes it just comes back to surrender – giving up the burden of one’s suffering to the Guru/Self. Recently, even the small recognition that ‘All is Brahman-Self’, even these waves of sensation that we call “pain”, helps one to surrender (as much as one is able) into the moment and that larger consciousness of which everything is but an expression. . . . and then again, looking for those moments when one can continue with Self Inquiry. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I feel I am probably just learning to be a bit more gentle with myself and allowing some flexibility in my approach without losing sight of the overall aim. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Just some thoughts, 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Best wishes, 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Peter 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Arvind Mulay 29 April 2005 09:47 RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] Question 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">Dear All 12.0pt">How can one continue inquiry in state of physical pain? Injury? or illness 12.0pt">its like trying to say I am not a body but then I feel the pain. one may ask oneself who feels the pain? But then is it enough to overcome the feeling of physical discomfort ? 12.0pt">Has Maharshi said anything on this situation ? or do you have any experience where you overcame feeling of 12.0pt">physical pain, illness, or even simple stomach upset ? 12.0pt">Arvind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Dear Peter, just now the inner voice compelled me to return the computer by saying, you must write one more mail, you forgot to mention japa. And here you are, Peter, writing on japa. Japa is indeed a great aid. When pain was overwhelming or when fear and agitation were so great that vichara seemed impossible, japa has helped to regain inner calm and prepare the ground to resume the vichara. Surrender must accompany the whole process. Without surrender the ego can not be given up. I guess surrender comes easier to sadhaks who are also Bhaktas as is the case with some Ramana devotees. The melting in love for the beloved Guru, softens heart, mind and body and helps to accept karma (and pain) and makes it more bearable. As Ramana said: Be like the traveller on the train, who gives up his luggage and who relaxes in his seat trusting that he will arrive safely at his destination without further effort on his part. Peace Chris On Apr 29, 2005, at 14:26, Peter M. wrote: > > Dear Arvind, > > From my own experience I agree with you that physical pain does seem > to make Atma Vichara more difficult. But it is not impossible. > Perhaps, when there is a lot of pain, one can only do it for a few > moments at a time… and then keep returning to it for another few > moments at a time. It seems one just needs to continue as best one > can. Even the little bit of strength one may gain from the attempt > during difficult times can be of great help in quieter/easier periods. > > I feel what can make it even more difficult is the notion that we > should be able to ‘overcome the feeling of pain’ through the practice > of Vichara. I think ‘overcoming’ is a different aim altogether. > After all we don’t talk about using VIchara to overcome the feeling of > pleasantness which arises from looking at a beautiful sky or face. > > When pain is particularly intense or of long duration and/or the brain > has got tired, I sometimes find it helpful to use Japa. This can have > the effect of keeping a certain stillness and stableness in the mind > and even allow one to stay with the pain and relate to it more from > the Heart. . . . then later returning to Self Inquiry when the mind > is more settled and an inner focus can be felt. > > Sometimes it just comes back to surrender – giving up the burden of > one’s suffering to the Guru/Self. Recently, even the small > recognition that ‘All is Brahman-Self’, even these waves of sensation > that we call “pain”, helps one to surrender (as much as one is able) > into the moment and that larger consciousness of which everything is > but an expression. . . . and then again, looking for those moments > when one can continue with Self Inquiry. > > I feel I am probably just learning to be a bit more gentle with myself > and allowing some flexibility in my approach without losing sight of > the overall aim. > > Just some thoughts, > > Best wishes, > > Peter > > > RamanaMaharshi > [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Arvind Mulay > 29 April 2005 09:47 > RamanaMaharshi > [RamanaMaharshi] Question > > Dear All > How can one continue inquiry in state of physical pain? Injury? or > illness > its like trying to say I am not a body but then I feel the pain. one > may ask oneself who feels the pain? But then is it enough to overcome > the feeling of physical discomfort ? > Has Maharshi said anything on this situation ? or do you have any > experience where you overcame feeling of > physical pain, illness, or even simple stomach upset ? > Arvind > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Our Shortcut URL: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > <a href="http://technorati.com/tag/ramanamaharshi" > rel="tag">ramanamaharshi</a> > > > Links > • > RamanaMaharshi/ > > • > RamanaMaharshi > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Dear Christiane and Dear Arvind, Consciousness and pain are close-door neighbours...relatives..from the same family ..(as if..) 'Vedana'is pain in Sanskrit..'vit.'.(to know) is the root.When there is pain in any part of the body..one is compelled to 'know'..take attention to..that part of the body...until the pain goes away one is all the time 'aware' of that part.So Christ you are correct... pain sharpens the awareness.Many of the the well-known literary works in the world are born out..trigerred by observation and 'samvedana' of pain..Ramayan by Valmiki..Kaunch..vidhunat..when he saw the bird 'kaunch' hit by an arrow..he composed the first lines of the epic. An often repeated yiddish folk saying in Hebrew is.."Keyner zogt nit 'ey'az s'tut nit vey"..(Not in plain,no one will complain) Arvind, agree with you...pain may cause interruption in sadhana temsporarily but it is a divine call as if to go back to sadhana and with double the vigor. In the lighter vein:In ancient India when the studies of Veda for the students used to get tougher and complex..they used to say ..'Tad viddhi vedanaya'..( you learn it i.e. Veda with 'pain'..difficulty) or 'samvedanaya' with 'compassion'.Students then and now, cannot be much different! 'Shoola' is another word in Sanskrit for pain...but it always gives me pleasure to hear because of holy association..(satsanga)with 'Trishoola' of Shiva! Om nahah shivay om namo Ramanaya --- christiane cameron <christianecameron wrote: > Dear Arvind, > > I share your experience, but the ability to remain in consciousness > while experiencing pain gets better as practice gets stronger. May > Bhagawan protect us from any illness that effects the brain and the > related systems though. > > Best wishes > > chris > > > > > > Dear Chris, > > Thanks indeed for your reply. I was only asking as an ordinary sadhaka > > about the pain. > > It was my concern because for ordinary novice person, temporary > > pain/discomfort has power to stop enquiry and raise all sorts of > > doubts about the sadhana and even sometimes act/say things one would > > not say otherwise. Its only after pain/discomfort has gone away that > > one realises that there was temporary lapse in the practice and regret > > it. > > Many thanks & regards, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Most of us pass through stages of body pain for one reason or other. When I am free from such pain I remind my self as to how it hindered sadhana and therfore should use the pain less state more productively for sadhana in stead of taking it for granted. May be it is willed by Him to make us realise the importance of painless state. Ramana Sarma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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