Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Hi Alakeshwar, I'm sorry that I've taken so long to reply to your message. > I logged on to the balayogi's official > site. He advocate's a meditation technique > which wasn't much favoured by Ramana for some > reason.Concentrating between the eyebrows was > a technique he seems to have discouraged. On > the other hand Paramanahamsayoganananda was > all for it.Funny,isn't it? I avoided meeting Shivarudrabalayogi for several years because of this. My love for Sri Ramana was and is so tremendous, my trust in his advice in the various books is so great, that I distrusted yoga completely. Several years ago two good friends of mine who know me well began to tell me that I should meet Shivarudrabalayogi. They had some intuition or hunch that I would be drawn to him magnetically. They urged me to interview him over the phone for the website that I was publishing at that time. Partly to appease my friends I conducted the interview but never got around to transcribing or publishing it. This was in 2001 or 2002. I spoke to Shivarudrabalayogi for about ninety minutes. Here is a very funny thing. The phone call convinced me that he was in the same state as Sri Ramana. In the ways that really matter he had had the same experiences -- the long periods of nirvikalpa, the permanent extinction of the mind, the present state of ongoing samadhi -- this man described these things to me from the inside. And I could just tell somehow that he was a jnani, even though I had never met one before. He was not like the rest of us. His mind didn't function in the same way. It seemed quite obvious to me. Volition and distraction just weren't there. I could feel myself talking to him in a way that's different from the way I normally talk to people because automatically, on an involuntary unconscious level, my mind reacted to what he is. And yet I finished the phone call with absolutely no interest in meeting him. Why? Because he had arrived at this state by practicing yoga, by deliberately concentrating his attention on something other than the I-thought. This turned me off because Sri Ramana disparaged yoga, and Sri Ramana was my lodestone. Looking back I have to laugh at myself. Which is more important? The fact that someone is in Sri Ramana's state, or the fact that he arrived at Sri Ramana's state in a way that Sri Ramana didn't recommend? Sri Ramana famously said (the remark is quoted in Talks but I believe he said it frequently, and that it's quoted in numerous places) that yoga is like beating a bull with a stick to make it go home, but enquiry is like coaxing it with a handful of sweet grass. In this analogy, the bull is the mind and home is the Self. When I spoke to Shivarudrabalayogi in that first conversation several years ago, I recited this remark to him and asked his opinion. Before I tell you his answer I should say that earlier in this same conversation, Shivarudra- balyogi had told me that when he was a boy, when he had gone out into the world to look for a human guru, he had consciously searched for "a guru of the same caliber as Ramana Maharshi." Also during this interview he had revealed that he was knowledgeable about Sri Ramana's written works and about some of the books about him. Anyway, Shivarudrabalayogi's answer about the bull was something to the effect (I forget his exact words) that there really isn't any difference. More recently he told me that when you look at the spot between the eyes, you are really looking at the Self. Something else as well. Sri Ramana often said that deliberate effort can only take you so far. Well, think about it. If deliberate effort only goes so far, and then something else takes over (in other words, you find yourself in samadhi, which is where real enquiry beings), then what difference does the method make? Not very much. The method brings you to samadhi. After that, the thing takes care of itself. I have continued to press Shivarudrabalayogi again and again on Sri Ramana's remarks because of my lingering distrust of yoga. I keep wanting him to convince me that yoga is as good as enquiry. By the way I am not practicing yoga. I am still practicing enquiry. Shivarudrabalayogi knows this and hasn't given the slightest sign that he cares. "If you want to do it that way," he said to me one day, "then don't forget ..." and he gave me some advice. He urged me to remember what he called the second half of Ramana Maharshi's method. He said that everyone remembers to hold the I-thought (actually I doubt that everyone remembers this, but that's my own opinion). However, he continued, people forget the second part of the advice, which is to see from where the I-thought comes. Last month I had the extraordinary good fortune to spend several weeks in close proximity to Shivarudrabalayogi. I even had the chance to spend three hours with him alone in a car (it's an interesting experience to try to remember to drive defensively with a jnani next to you on the seat). The impact of simply being with someone like this is incredible. It's really mind boggling. It's not mind boggling because of his "teachings." His spoken advice, the words that can be written down on paper, are of secondary importance. The thing that matters is the way you feel simply by being near him. No, "feel" is the wrong word. Your mind is affected by being with him. It doesn't matter what he says or recommends. In other words, the real teaching is silence. And if the real teaching is silence, then who cares what the jnani says about yoga or enquiry? These things don't matter that much. I apologize for the great length of this message. I also apologize for write on this mail list about a "person" who is not Ramana Maharshi. In case I offended anyone, I want to emphasize that I love Ramana Maharshi as much as you do. He has been as big a factor in my life as the life of anyone here. You may not believe me, but it's true. If Ramana Maharshi is the only person who will ever live who was in Ramana Maharshi's state, then realization is not something we can ever achieve, and there is no reason for us to seek it or care about it. But if it's possible for other people to be in that state, then shouldn't we want to find such people and be with them? What greater fruit could arise from your love of Ramana Maharshi, than to be motivated by that love to find a human guru who is in the same state as Ramana Maharshi? This isn't betrayal or disrespect for Ramana Maharshi. It's an understanding that jnana is not a person. Not any person. Not even the remarkably great person we call Sri Ramana Maharshi. I wish for everyone the same good fortune that has come to me. -- Rob RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of alakeshwar jayanarayan Monday, June 06, 2005 10:46 AM RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Sivarudrabalayogi > I logged on to the balayogi's official site. > He advocate's a meditation technique which > wasn't much favoured by Ramana for some reason. > Concentrating between the eyebrows was a > technique he seems to have discouraged. On t > the other hand Paramanahamsayoganananda was > all for it.Funny,isn't it? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Dear Rob, This is wonderful I am happy for you as I feel the enthusiasm and sincerity of your words. Sri Ramana used to say that the True Guru is the Heart, one’s own Heart and all outer gurus are simply reflections in the Self. Sri Ramana always emphasized being natural even in following a spiritual path. So one should always follow one’s heart. Pascal once said that the “Heart has its reasons that reason cannot know.” There is also a song that goes that there is a season for everything. It is different for everyone. I am not attracted to other teachers or their teachings even one iota. I come across many world renowned teachers and see people falling on their knees, etc. I only feel indifference. It has nothing to do with being loyal or anything to Sri Ramana. It is simply that when I came across Sri Ramana’s teachings (through my own teacher’s encouragement), I saw that the teaching was full and complete and it filled me and made me aware of the inherent fullness and complete nature of the Self. That was almost three decades ago. Yes, all these things are good. Concentration between the eye brows, yoga, meditation. Bhagavan did not discourage them for everyone. These all lead to Samadhi and that helps in Self-Realization. Sri Ramana only said that ultimately one has to arrive at one’s own Heart, the True Being which we are. Bhagavan’s teaching only says to look at it directly. Truly there is nothing that can be added or subtracted from that what we are. Love to all Harsha 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Rob Sacks Thursday, July 07, 2005 1:22 PM RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise 12.0pt"> 10.0pt">Hi Alakeshwar, I'm sorry that I've taken so long to reply to your message. Several years ago two good friends of mine who know me well began to tell me that I should meet Shivarudrabalayogi. They had some intuition or hunch that I would be drawn to him magnetically. They urged me to interview him over the phone for the website that I was publishing at that time. Partly to appease my friends I conducted the interview but never got around to transcribing or publishing it. This was in 2001 or 2002. I spoke to Shivarudrabalayogi for about ninety minutes. Here is a very funny thing. The phone call convinced me that he was in the same state as Sri Ramana. In the ways that really matter he had had the same experiences -- the long periods of nirvikalpa, the permanent extinction of the mind, the present state of ongoing samadhi -- this man described these things to me from the inside. And I could just tell somehow that he was a jnani, even though I had never met one before. He was not like the rest of us. His mind didn't function in the same way. It seemed quite obvious to me. Volition and distraction just weren't there. I could feel myself talking to him in a way that's different from the way I normally talk to people because automatically, on an involuntary unconscious level, my mind reacted to what he is. And yet I finished the phone call with absolutely no interest in meeting him. Why? Because he had arrived at this state by practicing yoga, by deliberately concentrating his attention on something other than the I-thought. This turned me off because Sri Ramana disparaged yoga, and Sri Ramana was my lodestone. Looking back I have to laugh at myself. Which is more important? The fact that someone is in Sri Ramana's state, or the fact that he arrived at Sri Ramana's state in a way that Sri Ramana didn't recommend? Sri Ramana famously said (the remark is quoted in Talks but I believe he said it frequently, and that it's quoted in numerous places) that yoga is like beating a bull with a stick to make it go home, but enquiry is like coaxing it with a handful of sweet grass. In this analogy, the bull is the mind and home is the Self. When I spoke to Shivarudrabalayogi in that first conversation several years ago, I recited this remark to him and asked his opinion. Before I tell you his answer I should say that earlier in this same conversation, Shivarudra- balyogi had told me that when he was a boy, when he had gone out into the world to look for a human guru, he had consciously searched for "a guru of the same caliber as Ramana Maharshi." Also during this interview he had revealed that he was knowledgeable about Sri Ramana's written works and about some of the books about him. Anyway, Shivarudrabalayogi's answer about the bull was something to the effect (I forget his exact words) that there really isn't any difference. More recently he told me that when you look at the spot between the eyes, you are really looking at the Self. Something else as well. Sri Ramana often said that deliberate effort can only take you so far. Well, think about it. If deliberate effort only goes so far, and then something else takes over (in other words, you find yourself in samadhi, which is where real enquiry beings), then what difference does the method make? Not very much. The method brings you to samadhi. After that, the thing takes care of itself. I have continued to press Shivarudrabalayogi again and again on Sri Ramana's remarks because of my lingering distrust of yoga. I keep wanting him to convince me that yoga is as good as enquiry. By the way I am not practicing yoga. I am still practicing enquiry. Shivarudrabalayogi knows this and hasn't given the slightest sign that he cares. "If you want to do it that way," he said to me one day, "then don't forget ...." and he gave me some advice. He urged me to remember what he called the second half of Ramana Maharshi's method. He said that everyone remembers to hold the I-thought (actually I doubt that everyone remembers this, but that's my own opinion). However, he continued, people forget the second part of the advice, which is to see from where the I-thought comes. Last month I had the extraordinary good fortune to spend several weeks in close proximity to Shivarudrabalayogi. I even had the chance to spend three hours with him alone in a car (it's an interesting experience to try to remember to drive defensively with a jnani next to you on the seat). The impact of simply being with someone like this is incredible. It's really mind boggling. It's not mind boggling because of his "teachings." His spoken advice, the words that can be written down on paper, are of secondary importance. The thing that matters is the way you feel simply by being near him. No, "feel" is the wrong word. Your mind is affected by being with him. It doesn't matter what he says or recommends. In other words, the real teaching is silence. And if the real teaching is silence, then who cares what the jnani says about yoga or enquiry? These things don't matter that much. I apologize for the great length of this message. I also apologize for write on this mail list about a "person" who is not Ramana Maharshi. In case I offended anyone, I want to emphasize that I love Ramana Maharshi as much as you do. He has been as big a factor in my life as the life of anyone here. You may not believe me, but it's true. If Ramana Maharshi is the only person who will ever live who was in Ramana Maharshi's state, then realization is not something we can ever achieve, and there is no reason for us to seek it or care about it. But if it's possible for other people to be in that state, then shouldn't we want to find such people and be with them? What greater fruit could arise from your love of Ramana Maharshi, than to be motivated by that love to find a human guru who is in the same state as Ramana Maharshi? This isn't betrayal or disrespect for Ramana Maharshi. It's an understanding that jnana is not a person. Not any person. Not even the remarkably great person we call Sri Ramana Maharshi. I wish for everyone the same good fortune that has come to me. -- Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Thank you so much, Harsha. I feel moved by your kind sympathetic words to say one more thing that I held back due to shyness. I said that the impact of being in Shivarudrabalayogi's presence was tremendous. But I didn't describe the effect. It was quite different from what I expected. I had expected some sort of quietness of mind or peaceful state that would occur when I was in his presence. And yes, this did occur. My mind often became noticeably quiet when I came near him. It was something like entering an echo-free room filled with foam. Yet this was not the really stupendous thing. The stupendous thing was not a momentary effect that occurred only in his presence. The stupendous thing grew cumulatively over the eleven-day period during which I saw him daily. It remained me with me at night and grew stronger the next day when I saw him again. And the stupendous thing was not a matter of thinking or not thinking, although my mind did grow noticeably quieter and freer from negative thoughts during that period. The stupendous thing was love. The stupendous thing was felt in the heart. It just got stronger and more overwhelming every day. By the eleventh day, when it was time for me to get an airplane and return home, my heart was an enormous bursting inferno. On the drive to the airport I kept crying tears of love. I can't really describe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Rob Sacks wrote: v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } ..shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } Thank you so much, Harsha. I feel moved by your kind sympathetic words to say one more thing that I held back due to shyness. I said that the impact of being in Shivarudrabalayogi's presence was tremendous. But I didn't describe the effect. It was quite different from what I expected. I had expected some sort of quietness of mind or peaceful state that would occur when I was in his presence. And yes, this did occur. My mind often became noticeably quiet when I came near him. It was something like entering an echo-free room filled with foam. Yet this was not the really stupendous thing. The stupendous thing was not a momentary effect that occurred only in his presence. The stupendous thing grew cumulatively over the eleven-day period during which I saw him daily. It remained me with me at night and grew stronger the next day when I saw him again. And the stupendous thing was not a matter of thinking or not thinking, although my mind did grow noticeably quieter and freer from negative thoughts during that period. The stupendous thing was love. The stupendous thing was felt in the heart. It just got stronger and more overwhelming every day. By the eleventh day, when it was time for me to get an airplane and return home, my heart was an enormous bursting inferno. On the drive to the airport I kept crying tears of love. I can't really describe it. Dear Rob, You don't have to be able to describe it. Sometimes what we long for and hope for is somewhere deep inside us and we are not able to acknowledge it or even be aware of it. When it starts manifesting, the effect can be powerful. When what we have needed, what we have only dreamed of, all of a sudden is before us and fully available, it is an amazing feeling. The effect of this feeling of good fortune and blessing can be deeply moving and helps us along in a way that mere intellectualization cannot. You may remember that Bhagavan used to have a similar effect on many of his devotees. "Then I understood that we did not go to him for profit, but because away from him there was no life for us." T.K. Sundaresa Iyer. This is one of my favorite stories of Bhagavan. From "At the Feet of Bhagwan" T.K. Sundaresa Iyer (T.K.S) met Sri Ramana in 1908 when T.K.S was only a twelve year old boy. His cousin Krishnamurthy had been visiting Ramana Maharshi regularly and would sing songs of devotion to him. One day T.K.S asked his cousin where he went every day. Krishnamurthy told him about Ramana and said, "The Lord of the Hill Himself is sitting in human form, why don't you come with me." Both of them then climbed the Hill and went to Virupksha cave to visit the Sage. Now the story in T.K.S.'s own words: "I too climbed the Hill and found Bhagavan sitting on a stone slab, with about 10 devotees around him. Each would sing a song. Bhagavan turned to me and asked, "Well, won't you sing a song also." One of Sundramurthy's songs came to my mind and I sang it. It's meaning was, "No other support have I, except thy holy feet. By holding on to them, I shall win your grace. Great men sing your praise Oh, Lord. Grant that my tongue may repeat Thy name even when my mind strays.Yes. That is what must be done," said Bhagavan, and I took it to be his teaching for me. From that time on, I went to see him regularly for several years without missing a day. One day I wondered why I was visiting him at all. What was the use? There seemed to be no inner advancement. Going up the hill was meaningless toil. I decided to end my visits on the hill. For one hundred days exactly I did not see Bhagavan. On the hundred and first day I could suffer no longer and I ran to Skandasramam, above Virupaksha Cave. Bhagavan saw me climbing, got up and came forward to meet me. When I fell at his feet, I could not restrain myself and burst into tears. I clung to them and would not get up. Bhagavan pulled me up and asked: "It is over three months since I saw you. Where were you?'' I told him how I thought that seeing him was of no use. "All right,'' he said, "maybe it is of no use, so what? You felt the loss, did you not?'' Then I understood that we did not go to him for profit, but because away from him there was no life for us." >From "At the Feet of Bhagwan" by T.K. Sundaresa Iyer. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Hello everyone; I read all your emails about the various gurus that you have all met , and the responses to that. It is interesting that the group has taken a different twist toward people who are following and or listening to other gurus and pathways and so on. When I sent an email some time ago that I would like to know if there are any other realized masters or gurus that are genuine out there, I had an attack of emails criticising me for asking that. But now I see our group has taken a twist in this? Interesting. I wonder what has caused this change? In Bhagavan, Zoya. --- Harsha wrote: > Dear Rob, > > > > This is wonderful I am happy for you as I feel the > enthusiasm and sincerity of your words. Sri Ramana > used to say that the True Guru is the Heart, one's > own > Heart and all outer gurus are simply reflections in > the > Self. Sri Ramana always emphasized being natural > even > in following a spiritual path. So one should always > follow one's heart. Pascal once said that the "Heart > has its reasons that reason cannot know." There is > also > a song that goes that there is a season for > everything. > > > > It is different for everyone. I am not attracted to > other teachers or their teachings even one iota. I > come > across many world renowned teachers and see people > falling on their knees, etc. I only feel > indifference. > It has nothing to do with being loyal or anything to > Sri Ramana. It is simply that when I came across Sri > Ramana's teachings (through my own teacher's > encouragement), I saw that the teaching was full and > complete and it filled me and made me aware of the > inherent fullness and complete nature of the Self. > That > was almost three decades ago. Yes, all these things > are > good. Concentration between the eye brows, yoga, > meditation. Bhagavan did not discourage them for > everyone. These all lead to Samadhi and that helps > in > Self-Realization. Sri Ramana only said that > ultimately > one has to arrive at one's own Heart, the True Being > which we are. Bhagavan's teaching only says to look > at > it directly. Truly there is nothing that can be > added > or subtracted from that what we are. > > > > Love to all > > Harsha > > > > > > _____ > > RamanaMaharshi > [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of > Rob Sacks > Thursday, July 07, 2005 1:22 PM > RamanaMaharshi > [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise > > > > Hi Alakeshwar, > > I'm sorry that I've taken so long to reply to > your message. > > Several years ago two good friends of mine who > know me well began to tell me that I should meet > Shivarudrabalayogi. They had some intuition or > hunch that I would be drawn to him magnetically. > They urged me to interview him over the phone > for the website that I was publishing at that > time. Partly to appease my friends I conducted > the interview but never got around to transcribing > or publishing it. > > This was in 2001 or 2002. I spoke to > Shivarudrabalayogi for about ninety minutes. Here > is a very funny thing. The phone call convinced me > that he was in the same state as Sri Ramana. In > the ways that really matter he had had the same > experiences -- the long periods of nirvikalpa, the > permanent extinction of the mind, the present state > of ongoing samadhi -- this man described these > things to me from the inside. And I could just > tell somehow that he was a jnani, even though I had > never met one before. He was not like the rest > of us. His mind didn't function in the same way. > It seemed quite obvious to me. Volition and > distraction just weren't there. I could feel > myself talking to him in a way that's different > from the way I normally talk to people because > automatically, on an involuntary unconscious > level, my mind reacted to what he is. > > And yet I finished the phone call with absolutely > no interest in meeting him. Why? Because he > had arrived at this state by practicing yoga, by > deliberately concentrating his attention on > something other than the I-thought. This > turned me off because Sri Ramana disparaged yoga, > and Sri Ramana was my lodestone. > > Looking back I have to laugh at myself. Which > is more important? The fact that someone is in > Sri Ramana's state, or the fact that he arrived > at Sri Ramana's state in a way that Sri Ramana > didn't recommend? > > Sri Ramana famously said (the remark is quoted > in Talks but I believe he said it frequently, > and that it's quoted in numerous places) that > yoga is like beating a bull with a stick to > make it go home, but enquiry is like coaxing it > with a handful of sweet grass. In this analogy, > the bull is the mind and home is the Self. > > When I spoke to Shivarudrabalayogi in that first > conversation several years ago, I recited this > remark to him and asked his opinion. > > Before I tell you his answer I should say that > earlier in this same conversation, Shivarudra- > balyogi had told me that when he was a boy, > when he had gone out into the world to look for > a human guru, he had consciously searched for > "a guru of the same caliber as Ramana Maharshi." > Also during this interview he had revealed that > he was knowledgeable about Sri Ramana's written > works and about some of the books about him. > > Anyway, Shivarudrabalayogi's answer about the > bull was something to the effect (I forget his > exact words) that there really isn't any > difference. More recently he told me that when > you look at the spot between the eyes, you are > really looking at the Self. > > Something else as well. Sri Ramana often said > that deliberate effort can only take you so far. > Well, think about it. If deliberate effort only > goes so far, and then something else takes over > (in other words, you find yourself in samadhi, > which is where real enquiry beings), then what > difference does the method make? Not very much. > The method brings you to samadhi. After that, > the thing takes care of itself. > > I have continued to press Shivarudrabalayogi > again and again on Sri Ramana's remarks because > of my lingering distrust of yoga. I keep > wanting him to convince me that yoga is as > good as enquiry. > > By the way I am not practicing yoga. I am still > practicing enquiry. Shivarudrabalayogi knows > this and hasn't given the slightest sign that > he cares. "If you want to do it that way," he > said to me one day, "then don't forget ..." > and he gave me some advice. > > He urged me to remember what he called the > second half of Ramana Maharshi's method. He > said that everyone remembers to hold the I-thought > (actually I doubt that everyone remembers this, > but that's my own opinion). However, he > continued, people forget the second part of the > advice, which is to see from where the I-thought > comes. > > Last month I had the extraordinary good fortune > to spend several weeks in close proximity to > Shivarudrabalayogi. I even had the chance to > spend three hours with him alone in a car (it's > an interesting experience to try to remember to > drive defensively with a jnani next to you on the > seat). The impact of simply being with someone > like this is incredible. It's really mind > boggling. > > It's not mind boggling because of his "teachings." > His spoken advice, the words that can be written > down on paper, are of secondary importance. The > thing that matters is the way you feel simply by > being near him. No, "feel" is the wrong word. > Your mind is affected by being with him. It doesn't > matter what he says or recommends. > > In other words, the real teaching is silence. And > if the real teaching is silence, then who cares > what the jnani says about yoga or enquiry? These > things don't matter that much. > > I apologize for the great length of this message. > I also apologize for write on this mail list > about a "person" who is not Ramana Maharshi. > > In case I offended anyone, I want to emphasize > that I love Ramana Maharshi as much as you do. > He has been as big a factor in my life as the > life of anyone here. You may not believe me, > but it's true. > > If Ramana Maharshi is the only person who will > ever live who was in Ramana Maharshi's state, > then realization is not something we can ever > achieve, and there is no reason for us to seek > it or care about it. > > But if it's possible for other people to be in > that state, then shouldn't we want to find such > people and be with them? > > What greater fruit could arise from your love > of Ramana Maharshi, than to be motivated by > that love to find a human guru who is in the > same state as Ramana Maharshi? > > This isn't betrayal or disrespect for Ramana > Maharshi. It's an understanding that jnana is > not a person. Not any person. Not even the > remarkably great person we call Sri Ramana > Maharshi. > > I wish for everyone the same > good fortune that has come to me. > > -- Rob > > > > _____ > > "The Self is always realized. Look within and be still! - Bhagavan Sri Ramana __ Sell on Auctions – no fees. 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Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 12.0pt">Dear Zoya, 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">This is a Ramana Maharshi list and Sri Ramana is the Guru here. Sri Ramana has clear teachings on the Self which most of us here have been attracted to. Sri Ramana did not discourage people from pursuing spiritual paths that seemed comfortable or natural to them. When people visited other gurus and came back to the Ashram, Bhagavan was often interested in hearing about their trip. However, that does not mean that teachings of those gurus became in anyway central to Ramana Ashram. Bhagavan’s devotees feel that the Sage of Arunachala has no equals in the way he points to the Self, the simplicity of his life, and the abundance of Grace that emanates from Bhagavan eternally. That does not mean that other paths and gurus may not be suitable for others. For us Bhagavan is our living Guru. 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">It just happens that Rob Sacks is a long term member of this list and of deep sincerity and genuine love for Bhagavan and we consider him our brother. Those of us who have known Rob over the years hold him in great regard with love and close to us. 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">Rob’s heartfelt post evoked a natural response from me. It is always like that. Is it not? 12.0pt"> 12.0pt">Love to all 12.0pt">Harsha font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Zoya Thursday, July 07, 2005 6:12 PM RamanaMaharshi RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise 12.0pt"> 10.0pt">Hello everyone; I read all your emails about the various gurus that you have all met , and the responses to that. It is interesting that the group has taken a different twist toward people who are following and or listening to other gurus and pathways and so on. When I sent an email some time ago that I would like to know if there are any other realized masters or gurus that are genuine out there, I had an attack of emails criticising me for asking that. But now I see our group has taken a twist in this? Interesting. I wonder what has caused this change? In Bhagavan, Zoya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Hi Harsha, > You may remember that Bhagavan used to have > a similar effect on many of his devotees. Yes, of course, that's why I'm posting these comments here. The point I am trying to make is that the experiences that were described in old books by people who spent time with Bhagavan can be obtained in the here and now. For example, there is a wonderful old memoir called "Days of Great Peace" by Mouni Sadhu, who spent a fair amount of time in Sri Ramana's presence. He writes in the introduction: .... I have not tried to write down any of the .... 'teachings' of Maharshi, as they can be found .... in many books. My purpose is to record that .... which the latter do not yet contain, namely, the .... real experiences of an average man, who wanted .... to know for himself what the presence of a great .... Sage means and what its influence is. His subject was the same as mine in the last few messages -- to describe how an ordinary person is affected by the presence of a jnani. It is interesting that he doesn't want to write about the 'teachings.' What interests him far more than the teachings is the effect that Sri Ramana's presence has on him. He writes: .... I am gazing intently at the Saint, looking into his .... great widely-opened dark eyes. ..... And suddenly I begin to *understand.* How can .... I express in our earthly language what exactly I do .... understand? ... I only feel a stream of tears upon my .... face. They are abundant and serene. They flow .... silently. It is not suffering, regret, or repentence .... that is their source.... And through these tears I .....look at the Master. He knows full well their .... origin ... Similar meditations continue for a few .... more days, and are followed by another stage. Tears .... give way to an inner quietude and a feeling of .... inexpressible, indescribable happiness.... .... But once we have discovered the secret of .... of this experience, the door to its repetition is opened. .... We can recover it at will. I am quite aware that the .... assistance of the Master is a most important factor .... in these first glimpses of the supramental .... consciousness. I do not think he is definitely .... and actively intervening, but his *presence*, his .... constant *radiation* spontaneously brings .... about this effect. -- Rob RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of HarshaThursday, July 07, 2005 5:10 PMTo: RamanaMaharshiSubject: Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise Rob Sacks wrote: v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } ..shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } Thank you so much, Harsha. I feel moved by your kind sympathetic words to say one more thing that I held back due to shyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Dear Rob, Thank you for these postings. We are told that when we are ready, the Guru will find us. This seems your experience. What a blessing! What Grace. When I first came to Nome, I did not feel any big bang. I felt some kind of deep rapport, and that he was expressing the truth (even though I did not know what he was saying. My path had been Buddhist - mindfulness and koans). I did feel more peaceful when I was at satsang. After a while I felt more peaceful in general (it turns out I was getting more satvic). I kept going to satsang. I started to practice as a central activity of this life. By now I feel immensely reverential to Nome and to Ramana. We are all standing in Ramana's grace. I am so happy that this Grace has come to you. I am also sure that how one quiets the mind (or ego) does not matter. There are many ways. It think it is great that since Brahman is all that is, anywhere one looks deeply enough, guess what we find. Finally, in this space what does matter is 'What is my identity? (Who am I?)' Not two, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Dear Zoya, > When I sent an email some time ago that I > would like to know if there are any other > realized masters or gurus that are genuine > out there, I had an attack of emails > criticising me for asking that. I'm sorry that happened. In my opinion this forum is a good and proper place for you to ask that question because this forum is one of the few places on the Internet where people are in a position to know what a real jnani is like. > But now I see our group has taken a > twist in this? Interesting. Heh, I wouldn't assume that anything has changed. Since I first mentioned Shivarudrabalayogi here, I've been expecting to get blasted out of the water at any moment. This is why some of my messages have been defensive and apologetic. This list has a lot of members and as with any large group, there is a wide range of opinions. -- Rob RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Zoya Thursday, July 07, 2005 6:12 PM RamanaMaharshi RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise Hello everyone; I read all your emails about the various gurus that you have all met , and the responses to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Dear Members: Thank you for your contributions. We continue to celebrate the Maharshi and his message. His body is shed, and so we shall now stick to the essential message which is bodiless. By all means, please continue discussions of gurus who give satsang in bodily form, but let it be privately, or on other lists. Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Dear Richard, Thank you for the kind words. Apparently we are no longer allowed to discuss the topic of this thread here, so I shall leave it at that. Best wishes, Rob RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of Richard Clarke Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:25 PM RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Association with the Wise Dear Rob, Thank you for these postings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Hi Harsha; I am well aware of what Ramana has had to say about searching for spirituality and experiencing other gurus and so on. That is why I love him so much. But I feel that you are discriminating between long time old members and new members and so on. I have been a member for sometime, and I don't know about Natarajan. This was a message posted by you in response to a member Natarajan: Harsha Sat Apr 9, 2005 4:44 am Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Living Masters are Still their. harshaimtm Offline Send Email This appears to have a different emphasis than Bhagavan Ramana's teaching. Love to all Harsha R. Narayanan wrote: > Yes their is one Guru that I know . He is on the top of Tiruvannamalai > hill. He is their in the hill for the past 15 - 20 yrs as of now doing > Tapas and giving darshan to devotees. You can visit this site to have > a glimpse of the mahan and also details about him. > > http://www.nandhi.com/picayya.htm > http://www.nandhi.com/freedownload.htm > http://www.nandhi.com/freedownload-ayya.htm > > Regards > > R.Narayanan And yet again in another occation, which I don't have the time to search for now, but you probably can find better, in response to my quest to see a guru in person you narrated another email that was not very supporting to my email by quoting Ramana and so on, discouraging and against my search. So you have conflicting answers to similar questions, experiences. Love to all, Zoya. --- Harsha wrote: > Dear Zoya, > > > > This is a Ramana Maharshi list and Sri Ramana is the > Guru here. Sri Ramana has clear teachings on the > Self > which most of us here have been attracted to. Sri > Ramana did not discourage people from pursuing > spiritual paths that seemed comfortable or natural > to > them. When people visited other gurus and came back > to > the Ashram, Bhagavan was often interested in hearing > about their trip. However, that does not mean that > teachings of those gurus became in anyway central to > Ramana Ashram. Bhagavan's devotees feel that the > Sage > of Arunachala has no equals in the way he points to > the > Self, the simplicity of his life, and the abundance > of > Grace that emanates from Bhagavan eternally. That > does > not mean that other paths and gurus may not be > suitable > for others. For us Bhagavan is our living Guru. > > > > It just happens that Rob Sacks is a long term member > of > this list and of deep sincerity and genuine love for > Bhagavan and we consider him our brother. Those of > us > who have known Rob over the years hold him in great > regard with love and close to us. > > > > Rob's heartfelt post evoked a natural response from > me. > It is always like that. Is it not? > > > > Love to all > > Harsha > > _____ > > RamanaMaharshi > [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of > Zoya > Thursday, July 07, 2005 6:12 PM > RamanaMaharshi > RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the > Wise > > > > Hello everyone; > > I read all your emails about the various gurus that > you have all met , and the responses to that. > > It is interesting that the group has taken a > different > twist toward people who are following and or > listening > to other gurus and pathways and so on. > > When I sent an email some time ago that I would like > to know if there are any other realized masters or > gurus that are genuine out there, I had an attack of > emails criticising me for asking that. > > But now I see our group has taken a twist in this? > Interesting. > > I wonder what has caused this change? > > In Bhagavan, > Zoya. > > > > > _____ > > "The Self is always realized. Look within and be still! - Bhagavan Sri Ramana __ Sell on Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 RamanaMaharshi, "Harsha" wrote: Those who define Ramana Those who say only Ramana can attain this Those are merely projecting themselves onto their own Ramana image. another smoke screen to cloud their hearts. Gnaw at their leggings for they are much to comfortable with their institutionalised sleep. Ramana, would that he be here would beat, about their heads with a broom and sent them to the fields and far away away from the computer which has hypnotised them. http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php? image=verse13ramonamaharishi9do.swf Best, Benny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 > > Zoya <mountainechoes > 2005/07/08 Fri PM 01:25:41 EDT > RamanaMaharshi > RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise Hi Harsha; snip... So you have conflicting answers to similar questions, experiences. ********************** Dear Zoya, I don't see any conflicts. This is a Ramana Maharshi list. This is indicated even by the name of the list which is RamanaMaharshi. So it is only natural that Bhagavan's teachings would take precedence over others on this forum. There are many other forums available to people who wish to discuss the teachings of other gurus, etc. There is no need for insisting that such discussions take place here. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Please don't let us go into controversion. It is fine if the list keeps the line on Sri Bhagavan. There are many other Advaita-teachers. To discuss them there may be other more appropriate places. It must not be here. Yet we should not forget that in Sri Bhagavan's Hall other Saints of all religions and also different philosophies have been a topic of sharing. It may be at times difficult to keep a line and yet stay open. Bhagavan was a big master in that and we as his disciple have here an opportunity to learn. I am no more moderator here and returned to the status of a simple member. So this is just a members voice. Kind Regards Gabriele - harsha RamanaMaharshi Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:55 AM Re: RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise > > Zoya <mountainechoes > 2005/07/08 Fri PM 01:25:41 EDT > RamanaMaharshi > RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the Wise Hi Harsha; snip... So you have conflicting answers to similar questions, experiences. ********************** Dear Zoya, I don't see any conflicts. This is a Ramana Maharshi list. This is indicated even by the name of the list which is RamanaMaharshi. So it is only natural that Bhagavan's teachings would take precedence over others on this forum. There are many other forums available to people who wish to discuss the teachings of other gurus, etc. There is no need for insisting that such discussions take place here. Love to all Harsha Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Our Shortcut URL: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi <a href="http://technorati.com/tag/ramanamaharshi" rel="tag">ramanamaharshi</a> a.. Visit your group "RamanaMaharshi" on the web. b.. RamanaMaharshi c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Dear Gabriele, Where is the line on this? I am now being moderated for mention of Nome, who has spent the last 25 years teaching of Ramana. I would not have hear of Ramana were it not for Nome? Is mention of other teachers, even teachers who teach of Ramana, no longer acceptable? Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > Please don't let us go into controversion. > It is fine if the list keeps the line on Sri Bhagavan. There are many other Advaita-teachers. > To discuss them there may be other more appropriate places. It must not be here. > Yet we should not forget that in Sri Bhagavan's Hall other Saints of all religions and also different philosophies > have been a topic of sharing. It may be at times difficult to keep a line and yet stay open. > Bhagavan was a big master in that and we as his disciple have here an opportunity to learn. > > I am no more moderator here and returned to the status of a simple member. > So this is just a members voice. > > Kind Regards > Gabriele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Hi Harsha; I will provide one last response to your email below and I would like to stop at that regardless of your response as I respect the hard work of the moderator and the purpose of the group more than responding to your email further and clogging and taking the precioius time of the list and members. you do not need to mention or teach/remind me about teachings of Ramana again as Ramana is my primary master. By conflicting answers I meant your reponse in supporting one member to express his guru's ideas and philosophy and doing exactly opposit even if a member only posted a URL of a guru they have seen. I wish not to continue replying to you further as I respect the main purpose of this list more than anything else. In Bhagavan, Zoya. --- harsha wrote: > > > > Zoya <mountainechoes > > 2005/07/08 Fri PM 01:25:41 EDT > > RamanaMaharshi > > RE: [RamanaMaharshi] Association with the > Wise > > Hi Harsha; > > snip... > > So you have conflicting answers to similar > questions, > experiences. > > ********************** > > Dear Zoya, > > I don't see any conflicts. This is a Ramana Maharshi > list. This is indicated even by the name of the list > which is RamanaMaharshi. So it is only natural that > Bhagavan's teachings would take precedence over > others on this forum. > > There are many other forums available to people who > wish to discuss the teachings of other gurus, etc. > There is no need for insisting that such discussions > take place here. > > Love to all > Harsha > > > > > > "The Self is always realized. Look within and be still! - Bhagavan Sri Ramana Discover Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover./stayintouch.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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