guru's grace

[Guest guest]

According to David Godman (www.davidgodman.org) Ramana Maharshi said

it was the power of Arunuchala (the hill he said was his guru) that

brought about his realization. This seems to be supported by this

quote I found on page 5 of Talks With Ramana Maharshi:

 

 

 

"Is a Master (Guru) necessary for realization?" Mrs. Piggott asked first.

 

M.: The realization is the result of the Master's (Guru's) grace more

than teachings, lectures, meditation, etc. They are only secondary

aids, whereas the former is the primary and the essential cause.

 

 

 

Godman also says that Ramana said his "principal teaching was silence,

by which he meant the wordless radiation of power and grace that he

emanated all the time. The words he spoke, he said, were for the

people who didn't understand these real teachings. Everything he said

was therefore a kind of second-level teaching for people who were

incapable of dissolving their sense of "I" in his powerful presence.

You may understand his words, or at least think that you do, but if

you think that these words constitute his teachings, then you have

really misunderstood him."

 

 

 

Godman also tells a story of his meeting Laskshamana Swamy, a

supposedly realized disciple of Ramana. He says, "Up till the time I

first met him, I had been meditating intensively for most of the day

for a period of about eighteen months. My mind was fairly quiet most

of the time and I really felt that I was making good progress on the

road to Self-realization. However, within a few seconds of being

looked at by Lakshmana Swamy, I was in a state of stillness and peace

that was way beyond anything that I had experienced through my own

efforts. That one darshan effectively demonstrated to me the need for

a human Guru."

 

 

 

Words such as the above quite naturally lead some people to believe

that it is far more important to sit in the presence of a realized

guru rather than to do meditation, self-inquiry, philosophical

inquiry, etc. Are they wrong?

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know what anyone here thinks about this.

 

 

 

Mark

[Guest guest]

Talk 171.

To another question Master said: The best is heart to heart speech and heart to

heart hearing. That is the best upadesa.

 

D.: Is not guidance from Guru necessary?

 

M.: Are you apart from Guru?

 

D.: Is proximity helpful?

 

M.: Do you mean physical proximity? What is the good of it? The mind

alone matters. The mind must be contacted.

[Guest guest]

Mark writes

 

<snip> .... some people to believe

that it is far more important to sit in the presence of a realized

guru rather than to do meditation, self-inquiry, philosophical

inquiry, etc. Are they wrong?

I'd be interested to know what anyone here thinks about this.

----

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

An interesting question. The tricky part of such questions is that they

may draw us into discussing the rights and wrongs of other people's paths or

understanding.

 

Perhaps the wisest course is to simply to discover what is needed for

ourselves.

 

In another reply to your message Bhagavan's view appears to be that

physical proximity to the Guru is not the most important thing.

 

"M.: Do you mean physical proximity? What is the good of it? The mind alone

matters. The mind must be contacted."

 

There is also a question in your own words, above. What is 'the presence

of a realised guru'?

 

Best wishes,

 

Peter

[Guest guest]

> There is also a question in your own words, above. What is 'the presence

> of a realised guru'?

 

Talk 470.

As a European Countess was leaving for Europe tonight she requested

him to bless her and her family.

 

M.: You do not go anywhere away from the Presence as you imagine.

The Presence is everywhere. The body moves from place to place;

yet it does not leave the one Presence. So no one can be out of

sight of the Supreme Presence. Since you identify one body with

Sri Bhagavan and another body with yourself, you find two separate

entities and speak of going away from here. Wherever you may

be, you cannot leave ME.