Gem's from Bhagavan: Self-Realization

[Guest guest]

The more we control thought, activity and food, the more we will be able to

control sleep. But moderation ought to be the rule for the sadhak

(aspirant). As explained in the Gita, sleep is the first obstacle for all

sadhaks. The second obstacle is said to be vikshepa, or the sense objects

of the world which divert one's attention. The third is said to be kashya

or thoughts about previous experiences with sense objects. The fourth,

Ananda (bliss), is also an obstacle, because in that state a feeling of

separation from the source of Ananda, making the enjoyer say, 'I am enjoying

Ananda,' is present. Even this has to be surmounted, and the final stage of

samadhana or samadhi has to be reached, where one becomes Ananda, or One

with the Reality, and the duality of enjoyer and enjoyment ceases in the

ocean of Satchidananda (Existence-Consciousness-Bliss) of the Self.

 

(Gems from Bhagavan, selected by A. Devaraja Mudaliar)

[Guest guest]

Sir, I have checked Sri Peter's post to this list, and the details are correct.

As well as the source reference "Gems", the material is also to be found in "Day

by Day with Bhagavan", dated 25th April, 1946.

 

As this is a direct quotation from Sri Ramanasramam's publications, kindly note

that the material is here not up for discussion. The translation was made during

the Maharshi's life.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Moderator ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

Hmmm....

 

This quote uses the words "and the final stage of samadhana or samadhi

has to be reached." I'm wondering if there's something missing or if

this quote has a context wherein the "missing" is supplied. It's that

word "final" that bothers me.

 

That "missing" would be the Absolute.

 

Experientially, being in samadhi is the closest to "being the

Absolute" that individuality can muster up, but while in samadhi the

attachments are "burned by the fire of pure knowledge." Until all the

attachments are thus "crisped," one can be "kicked out of samadhi" in

order to fulfill those desires.

 

Once the attachments are gone though, THEN the final freedom from

individuality is gained, one's identity makes the final shift from

pure being to the Absolute -- which is beyond being and non-being.

 

So does anyone know who "picked the English words" for this passage?

I'm wondering if that person "gets it" about the Absolute.

 

Anyone?

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "Peter" <not_2 wrote:

>

>

>

> The more we control thought, activity and food, the more we will be

able to

> control sleep. But moderation ought to be the rule for the sadhak

> (aspirant). As explained in the Gita, sleep is the first obstacle

for all

> sadhaks. The second obstacle is said to be vikshepa, or the sense

objects

> of the world which divert one's attention. The third is said to be

kashya

> or thoughts about previous experiences with sense objects. The fourth,

> Ananda (bliss), is also an obstacle, because in that state a feeling of

> separation from the source of Ananda, making the enjoyer say, 'I am

enjoying

> Ananda,' is present. Even this has to be surmounted, and the final

stage of

> samadhana or samadhi has to be reached, where one becomes Ananda, or One

> with the Reality, and the duality of enjoyer and enjoyment ceases in the

> ocean of Satchidananda (Existence-Consciousness-Bliss) of the Self.

>

> (Gems from Bhagavan, selected by A. Devaraja Mudaliar)

>

[Guest guest]

I'm a bit perplexed. Please inform me.

 

What books are to be considered "truth?" I think that a translator's

challenge is huge, so I'm not going to toss out a whole book based on

a quote that seems "a bit hinky" to me, but in every spiritual group

I've ever been associated with, a seeker is allowed to ask "dumb

questions," so that those who know better can instruct the student

into correctitude.

 

If that's not the case, then please tell me the rules. I read the

introduction for this group before I joined, and I sure thought that

discussions of every nature were allowed.

 

Even the Bible has many translations -- and of course, they're a cause

of great friction in some circles. Unless a person was designated as

enlightened, it is my personal belief that the person's "take" on how

a passage should be translated can be -- not necessarily, but can be

-- in error on subtleties.

 

I'm not versed about Ramana Maharishi books -- especially in terms of

which authors may or may not be considered "perfect." Please forgive

me, I do not mean to cast any aspersions whatsoever on any

translation, I only asked what I thought was an important question.

 

That question in another form would be: "Is there a difference

between Being and the Absolute?" My readings of Ramana Maharishi's

words have me convinced that there is a difference and that it is vital.

 

I await any instructions, or to be told to find another place where

such a discussion would not produce discomfort in anyone.

 

Thank You,

Edg

 

RamanaMaharshi, "duveyoung" <edg wrote:

>

> Sir, I have checked Sri Peter's post to this list, and the details

are correct. As well as the source reference "Gems", the material is

also to be found in "Day by Day with Bhagavan", dated 25th April, 1946.

>

> As this is a direct quotation from Sri Ramanasramam's publications,

kindly note that the material is here not up for discussion. The

translation was made during the Maharshi's life.

>

> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Moderator ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

>

> Hmmm....

>

> This quote uses the words "and the final stage of samadhana or samadhi

> has to be reached." I'm wondering if there's something missing or if

> this quote has a context wherein the "missing" is supplied. It's that

> word "final" that bothers me.

>

> That "missing" would be the Absolute.

>

> Experientially, being in samadhi is the closest to "being the

> Absolute" that individuality can muster up, but while in samadhi the

> attachments are "burned by the fire of pure knowledge." Until all the

> attachments are thus "crisped," one can be "kicked out of samadhi" in

> order to fulfill those desires.

>

> Once the attachments are gone though, THEN the final freedom from

> individuality is gained, one's identity makes the final shift from

> pure being to the Absolute -- which is beyond being and non-being.

>

> So does anyone know who "picked the English words" for this passage?

> I'm wondering if that person "gets it" about the Absolute.

>

> Anyone?

>

>

> RamanaMaharshi, "Peter" <not_2@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > The more we control thought, activity and food, the more we will be

> able to

> > control sleep. But moderation ought to be the rule for the sadhak

> > (aspirant). As explained in the Gita, sleep is the first obstacle

> for all

> > sadhaks. The second obstacle is said to be vikshepa, or the sense

> objects

> > of the world which divert one's attention. The third is said to be

> kashya

> > or thoughts about previous experiences with sense objects. The

fourth,

> > Ananda (bliss), is also an obstacle, because in that state a

feeling of

> > separation from the source of Ananda, making the enjoyer say, 'I am

> enjoying

> > Ananda,' is present. Even this has to be surmounted, and the final

> stage of

> > samadhana or samadhi has to be reached, where one becomes Ananda,

or One

> > with the Reality, and the duality of enjoyer and enjoyment ceases

in the

> > ocean of Satchidananda (Existence-Consciousness-Bliss) of the Self.

> >

> > (Gems from Bhagavan, selected by A. Devaraja Mudaliar)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Edg,

 

I hope this will fit in with your question... Sri Ramana appears to put a

different emphasis on the term 'samadhi' depending on who He is talking to

and what scripture He might be referring to when doing so. In another

passage from "Talks" (Talk 82) He distinguishes between Kevala Samadhi

(which is a temporary state) and Sahaja Samadhi which is said to be

'permanent' or rather, the natural state which is always present.

 

Yet, underneath the seeming differences Sri Ramana is stating that samadhi

is always present, it is our natural state; the different labels we give to

it merely reflect the aspirant's ability (or not) to hold on to the

natural state and permanently destroy the 'I am the body idea'.

 

In Talk 391 Sri Ramana says:

 

(1) Holding on to Reality is samadhi.

(2) Holding on to Reality with effort is savikalpa samadhi.

(3) Merging in Reality and remaining unaware of the world is

nirvikalpa samadhi.

(4) Merging in Ignorance and remaining unaware of the world is

sleep. (Head bends but not in samadhi).

(5) Remaining in the primal, pure natural state without effort is

sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi.

(End of quote)

 

Best wishes,

 

Peter