Re. Beef in McDonald's French fries

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri. Anbil Ramaswamy Avl,

 

Thanks for your message below. Your Section 5 description below is what I

intended in my original email. If one decides to eat at McDonald's its his

decision. By this if he loses something, it was by an action of his choice.

 

Scriptures and Shastras and a whole lot more are there for all of us. One

may read it or may not. One may practise them or not. Others may tell us,

encourage us, teach us, guide us, and show us the virtuous path from their

experiences but finally the individual alone decides what to do thereon.

 

Murali

 

 

-

<Ramanbil

<>

Saturday, May 12, 2001 9:35 PM

Re. Beef in McDonald's French fries

 

 

Dear Bhagavatas:

It is amazing that the posting on "Beef in McDonald's French fries"

had generated an animated discussion through numerous responses

leading to the dietary regimen one should follow.

 

I have written exhaustively on the subject in my book "Hinduism

Rediscovered" Vide "Ch. 15: The 'Trigunas' and the Dietary regimen"

Excerpts have been archived at "Srivaishnava.org/sgati". I am sure

you will find answers to most of your questions on the subject. I

would request you kindly to go through these and if you need any

further clarifications, please feel free to correspond with me

personally at "Sri_Ranga_Sri"

 

Please go to www.Srivaishnava.org/sgati

Click on SDDS Volume 2 Table of Contents (TOC)

Go to the following issues on "Chapter 15 "Triguna and Ahara

Niyamam"

Issue 11 Sec. 1.Trigunas

Issue 12 Sec 2.How to find what Gunas govern a person -Lord Krishna

diagnoses

Issue 13 "Aahaaraniyamam - Lord Krishna prescribes"

Issue 14 "What our Sastras permit/prohibit in the matter of food -

The "Conclusion" is reproduced here for your information:

 

"SECTION 5: CONCLUSION

As already mentioned these prohibitions and restrictions are only for

your guidance. If you desire to cultivate the Satvika Guna and

regulate / eliminate Rajasic and Thamasic Gunas, you may choose to

follow the instructions and if you do not follow ONLY YOU are the

loser to that extent.

 

The doctor can only help in diagnosing the disease and prescribing

appropriate medicines. If the patient desires an expeditious and

effective cure, the patient will have to scrupulously follow the

instructions.

 

THE PATIENT IS FREE EITHER TO FOLLOW OR FLOUT THE INSTRUCTIONS, WITH

ATTENDANT CONSEQUENCES. AND, NOW IT IS IN YOUR HANDS TO CHOOSE

EITHER COURSE ON THE ROAD TO YOUR SPRITUAL REGENERATION OR

DEGENERATION"

=================ON THE QUESTION OF AHIMSA:

Your attention is also invited to Chapter 13 ibid "Samanya Dharma and

Sanatana Dharma" (Eternal Ordinary duties) where in Section

2.2 "Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah (Non-violence), the subject has been dealt

with at length. You will find excerpts at the same SDDS Volume 2

Issue # 9 dated 17th January 1997.

This, however,is reproduced here for your information.

 

"2.2. AHIMSA PARAMO DHARMAH

Non Violence Is the Supreme Virtue' Says Hinduism.

 

Seeing God in every living being, Hinduism inculcates veneration for

every thing - Cows, ants etc. Even rivers are considered to be living

beings, hence venerated as also trees as vouched in the Sastras and

expounded scientifically by the great Indian Scientist J.C.BOSE. This

reverence is expressed in forms of 'Ahimsa' or nonviolence to animals

as well as humans and as a result most pious Hindus are vegetarian.

 

The word 'Ahimsa' is derived from the root "Han" to kill. Or 'To

damage'. By adding the negative prefix it means "not to kill"

There are 4 aspects of this negative connotation.

1. Vegetarianism

2. Harmlessnes

3. Pacifism and

4. Passive resistance

 

On the positive aspect it means compassion (i.e.) Actual assistance

to all living creatures who are in need. Karuna (Intelligent charity)

Maitri (Active good deed) and Daya (Tender sympathy) are its other

positive manifestations.

 

A doubt can arise whether the principle of 'Ahimsa' so loudly

proclaimed is not inconsistent with the sacrifice of goats, horses

etc. referred to in the Vedas. No doubt, the Vedas did prescribe some

animal sacrifices; it even spoke of 'Purushamedha' a human

sacrifice. But, the concept should be viewed in the context in which

they were so prescribed. The Upanishads which came subsequently to

analyze and explain the Vedic texts lost no time in clarifying that

these sacrifices were more symbolic and allegorical than referring to

the actual sacrifice of the animals or human and that the effects of

these sacrifices could be secured by substitute materials like Gritha

(Ghee), Masha (Black gram) and certain other leafy vegetables. Even

today, it may be observed that in the shradda ceremonies, Ghee, Rice,

Black gram and Thila (sesame seeds) are used, may be as substitutes

for the sacrifice of living beings. This view has been upheld in

subsequent recensions and sacrifice of living beings is prohibited by

Dharma as also by law.

 

A further question can be asked whether vegetarianism is not

also "himsa" in the sense that it has been proved that plants have

life? It has further been proved that in the case of plants, lifeline

runs in the trunks in some cases, roots in others and seeds in others

and that is why Sastras have prohibited cutting the plants at their

respective lifelines - and this has been confirmed by modern science.

 

Modern Science concurs with Sastras in the view that those parts

where the lifelines do not run, no harm is caused when those parts

are cut. These parts correspond to say hairs on our head or the nails

on our fingers or toes which when cut or clipped do not entail any

pain.

 

The cow is an expression of brotherhood between man and beast, of

man's 'identity with all that lives'. The cow is referred to

as "Gomatha" and is treated with the same respect as one would treat

one's own mother. Modern scholars are convinced that "Milk and dung

from cows contribute far more to Indian society than what butchering

the scrawny beasts would accomplish"

 

Mahabharata states clearly that killing of a cow was the worst of all

crimes. "All that kill, eat and permit the killing of cows rot in

hell for as many years as there are hairs on the body of the cow so

slain"

 

The 'Panchagavya' or the five products from the cow Viz., milk, curd,

ghee, dung and urine are deemed the most sacred amalgam that can

purify any defilement.

 

In fact, 'Ahimsa' is called the first of flowers:'Ahimsa Prathamam

Pushpam' - Hinduism holds everything is but a spark of the same

divinity and therefore no harm should be done to anything that is

living.

 

Lord Krishna declares

"The wise see alike in regard to one well endowed with learning and

humility, a Brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog - eater

(because they know that though different outwardly in form, they have

similar souls"

 

Like Truth, 'Ahimsa' cannot be an 'absolute' one. Supposing somebody

tries to rape a woman. Hinduism does not say that she should not

offer any resistance. Even Mahatma Gandhi; the greatest protagonist

of Nonviolence advised the woman to use all in her power and command

not only to resist but go to the extent of killing the criminal, if

she finds it necessary. He goes on to say that such an act on her

part will not constitute violence, since it is done in pure self

defense of her honor"

============================================================================

=======================================================I conclude with the

request that any futher discussion on the subject

may please be through private mail. Mails may be addressed

to "Sri_ranga_Sri" and NOT to the "" address. Thanks.

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srirangasri-

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

Dear Murali Sampath Prabhu,

 

This mail is directed at your goodself.

 

> Looks to me like most of you missed the point in my earlier message. I do

> not contradict the shastras and agamas nor what most of you have written

> about vegetarianism. Matter of fact I myself am a vegetarian.

 

Very good. We are glad to know that you are a vegetarian but that is not

vaishnavism's ideal.

Vaishnavism's ideal is to be come Krishnatarian or who who only accepts

foostuffs offered to Lord Narayana.

It is best if we could all come to that platform. Vegetarianism or

meat-eating is not our business.

 

>I do not eat at McDonald's nor french fries or meat. If only those of you

who wrote back,

> cared to read my first posting on this topic, you would have noticed that

I

> had let be known that Dannon Yogurt contains Gelatin and that I contacted

> the FDA regarding this. I would not have wasted my time calling Dannon and

> the FDA if Gelatin was not there in the yogurt.

 

Thank you for yoru efforts. We perfectly understood your intentions. We were

merely reiterating our points

and qualifying the fact that statements made must ultimately corroborate

with shastra.

 

> All that I was trying to point out was that it is for one to decide what

> they want to eat, when to eat, what to eat and where to eat.

 

Yes, most certainly. That is common sensical and all of us are aware of

this - that ultimately

it is up to the individual to decide. But I would assume that we are all

aspiring to be servants of the Lord

and hence have relegated our independence to that of the will of the Lord.

As such, at least we as aspiring Vaishnavas should know what to do and what

not to do. The choice is personal but the proper standards cannot be so.

They apply to one and all. It is a lack of such proper standards that has

led to so much decadence today. All wishy washy substandards are being

broadcast as perfectly fine and that is the first step to start the

degradation. Let the proper standards be properly established. whether

people follow or not is not the issue here. we must act to please the Lord

and the Acharyas and let at least those who are sincere in following have

the guidance and standards for them. Otherwise that select few we may lose

to frivolous sub-standardisation.

 

> I never said that one should not follow or learn what's in the scriptures

or the vedas

> and more. When I wrote it is a "matter of personal choice", I meant that

it

> is for the individual to decide whether they want to read, listen and

follow

> what our respective elders, scholars and others have given to us. This is

> akin to grooming our kids - telling them what to do and not, with a hope

> that when they grow up they will have a nice life. We strive and try to

> discipline them. Beyond this we pray to the almighty that our kids take to

> the right path in life. We make all efforts by caring for them and showing

> them the right path, just like our Acharyas lead us. But the point here

is,

> even despite parents advices and teachings, if the kids go out and choose

> their own life style, it is they who made that choice. We did our best but

> the choice was theirs. Our influences was only to help them make a better

> choice. But eventually what they chose remained a decision made by them.

You

> and me can only influence them but the final decision is theirs. Likewise,

> we have the Shastras, the scriptures, our Acharyas, Gurus, elders and more

> all pointing to how we should lead our lives, what we should eat, what we

> need to wear for the temple, what we can do to help others, and so on,

which

> you may be knowing much more than I do. Whether one wants to follow these

or

> not is something that the individual decides. And this person shoulders

the

> responsibility for having made such a decision. By this I do not mean to

say

> that no one should be advised or helped or guided. It would be wonderful

to

> learn all great values and practise these. One may even be willing to

listen

> and learn all these but may end up not following them. It's his or her

> decision.

 

Yes, yet again this is already understood. But let us at least set that

standard before praying to the

Lord for further help ! that is why this list and so many other such lists

are there ! not to take pity upon ourselves and cry but to save the

situation to the best of our abilities. These days even vaishnava parents

are sleeping at times or becoming lax in the name of adaptability in this

regard. Then when the child finally breaks all barriers they sit and cry !

what is the use ? let us first do our duty before saying ultimately upto the

Lord and the individual.

we are not to promote a sense of helplessness in the name of individual

choice.

 

> Learned friends, I do find some of you getting offended for no reason at

> all. Your outbursts! Does it help you?

 

None of us are getting offended here. Kindly do not likewise feel offended

when nothing of that nature has been intended in any of our mails. We have

merely been firm in asserting what is shastric and what is ashastric. There

is no explosion or outburst on the list at all, unless you have created one

in your imagination. There is nothing we can do about that.

Anyway, we are all learning - no malice intended. :-) Nothing that has not

been created by us has the need to help us.

 

dasan

R. Jai Simman

Singapore