from mukund

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

We very often come across these two syllables in our daily life"Acharam" and

"Madi".When we keep ourselves cleen interms of daily abolutions and having a

clear thought on doings things right are we taking things too far in this "Madi

and acharam" or is it a pompus tool for the half baked intellects to build an

aura around themselves?Pl clarify.

 

adeyan ramanuja dasan

 

thathachar mukund

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Reply in red.

 

 

 

 

 

"mukund"

<japa78

<>

> cc:

from

mukund

12/30/02 04:08

PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear All,

 

We very often come across these two syllables in our daily life"Acharam"

and "Madi".When we keep ourselves cleen interms of daily abolutions and

having a clear thought on doings things right

 

are we taking things too far in this "Madi and acharam"

 

No, it might seem we are taking it too far, but then one must understand

this in the context of (a) who is the person(s) insisting on a

particular 'acharam/madi' (b) the time/circumstances under which such

particular 'acharam/madi' is insisted © the person on whom this is

being imposed and (d) the rationale

 

(a) The age/experience/knowledge /capability is of prime importance. If

a Ahobila Mutt Jeeyar tells that xyz must be observed, then there is no

question of any rationale, time/circumstance etc. This is called in

Yogic language as "Agama". An Agama is defined as a person/entity of

absolute trustworthy authority. No one can question such an authority.

The Vedas are the primary Agamas to give an example.

 

(b) the time/circumstances : Coming down to the next level, if the

person(s) does not appear to be so much learned, aged, experienced or

does not seem to command authority, then the status vis-a-vis the

time/circumstances alongwith rationale should be considered. Example,

great grandfather/grandfather's who have been doing the basic minimum

requirement of daily Sandhi, who perform without fail the Pitru works

and say who are able to at least chant something of the Divya Prabhandam

or Vishnu Sahasranam or some work, but who are ordinary mortals living a

normal life in general. Such person by their sheer dint of Sandhi/Pitru

works, etc. are eligible to infer and give instructions on

'acharam/madi'. The circumstances may differ and keep on changing. What

has been observed by them in their time compared to what is happening

around in the present time/circumstances may be taken into account. For

instance, in the old days there was no flat/apartment system. Water was

from a river and not stored/rationed. In these days, with rationed

water, the grandmother may insist that say during an upcoming occasion

like Pongal water may be stored after taking bath in a separately washed

vessel.

 

© The person on whom this is insisted is also to be considered.

Generally children, especially boys who have not yet had the Upanayanam

may be excused for all such 'acharam/madi' issues. However, the

impositions/restrictions if any imposed on any person(s) who is capable,

in full health and with adequate mental capability, then such an

imposition may be adhered otherwise in the former cases ignored. For

instance if an adult is diabetic and or suffers from low blood pressure,

then if someone insists that during "Tarpana" /"Shardha" time he should

be empty stomach, then this stricture may not be valid, such person can

go ahead and have a bare minimum say a cookie, biscuit or coffee or

butter milk or lemon juice or some such satvic consumption may be

indulged in only to ensure that there is enough strength and capacity to

discharge the duty.

 

(d) Lastly the rationale should form the basis. If all the three factors

above are not enough,then some logical rationale either explained by the

person(s) who imposes or referred in some book, by some authority etc.

may be considered.

 

or is it a pompus tool for the half baked intellects to build an aura

around themselves?

 

You are right, there are half-baked intellects, especially in these

matters who make this into a big issue and cause trouble to all around.

 

Pl clarify.

 

adeyan ramanuja dasan

 

thathachar mukund

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

/namastE Shri Mukund.

 

I think we can get a better understanding of /acAram and /maTi if we try to

capture the basic ideas behind it. One way to do this is to look at the meaning

of these words. What do these words mean? Are there English equivalents or are

these ideas unique to us?

 

Let me attempt by beginning with the word /maTi.

 

A relevant meaning for /maTi is "retreat" or "withdrawal". The word comes from

/maTittal --- to fold. We fold a paper; that is /maTittal. What happens? The

full-size has become half-size. The paper has been withdrawn from its full use.

 

Retreat is a religious idea seeking withdrawal from the world to be in unuion

with God for a few minutes or a few days. Catholics practice /maTi, when they

enter into retreat every year --- even children. No talk for most of the day.

Only reading.

 

The word /maTi has negative use too! You must withdraw of course routinely, not

for ever! When you do that you are a /maTayan, one who has separated himself or

hesrelf from reality of the world. He or she has built an isoalted world good

only for hin or her. That is /maTayan. A very god example is given by /maHA/kavi

subramanya bhAratiyAr. /mAtar tammai iZivu ceyyun maTamaiyaik koZuttuvOm. That

is a stupid isolation of women from public life until Gandhiji came.

 

There is a pleasnat use of the word /maTi. Women are iften bashful. Let a boy of

16 0r 16 tell a little girl of 14 how pretty she is. She is going to fold. She

is a /maTantai. A /maTantai is a woman slim enough to be able to fold! (Sorry,

not putting down others; I cannot change the meaning of words!).

 

I hope it is clear to you that /maTi in the sense of "retreat" is good for all

of us. What we need to do is to get expand the current concept of /maTi to one

where people reamin in "retreat camps" For example, /gItai maTi will be an

occasion for people to fold into the /gItA.

 

/vantanam.

 

Visu

[Guest guest]

To elaborate on what Shri Visu has mentioned..... the rationale would cover

the following aspects :

 

a. Under normal circumstances, ordinary mortals like all of us function

with the 5 senses (touch, smell, sight, hearing and taste). However, the

scope and range of our senses is very limited. For example we cannot see

like x-rays. X-ray can see thru your skin and look at your bones, but with

ordinary eyes you and me cannot even think of such a feat. Similarly below

and above certain range of decibels/cycles/frequency the normal human ear

cannot hear things. Bats use ultrasonic sound and are blind but we humans

cannot achieve this.

 

b. what follows from (a) is there are frequencies, wavelengths, levels

higher and lower than those ordinarily percieved by the 5 senses. These can

be termed as super normal, sub-normal, abnormal levels. At these levels

there are beings, activity, creation/dissolution and interactions. It is an

entirely different world.

 

This email can be read by you because what is written millions of miles

away is converted into invisible electrnoic symbols and travels by air

(which again cannot be percieved by our ordinary senses) and somehow gets

into your computer and finally gets converted into words back. The entire

operation is invisible, but it happens nevertheless.

 

c. Whenever we pray, meditate and involve in all spiritual (look at the

word spiritual, it means connected with the spirit, which automatically

means and implies that the subject cannot be percieved and felt by the

ordinary 5 senses and is beyond these) activity, then we are attempting to

connect, communicate with such sub-normal, abnormal, super normal levels.

 

d. What happens to an astronaut after he returns to earth from his sojourn

to the planets/stars ? He is quarantined for sometime/days. Why? Because

the scientists (mortals etc.) despite so much technical advances, so much

knowledge still nurse a 0.000001% doubt whether the astronaut might be

carrying some alien particle harmful once it is released on earth. This is

a western form of "Acharam / Mati", though they call it in polished fashion

as "Quarantine".

 

Visitors to Australia and New Zealand might be familiar with the treatment

at airport/points of entry in these countries. They are very strict. Dust

/mud caked in your shoe bottom is enough to warrant "deportation or

quarantine or even penalised....recently our cricket stars were fined in

Wellington for having this dirt on their shoe!!!!

 

e. By the same reasoning, what do you do when you go for an job interview,

or an important conference or occasion like an marriage? For all such

occasiions be it marriage, interview, party, conference, meeting your first

unconscious act is to be clean at least physically. You wear the best

clothes, put the best perfume, after shave, powder and oil. Shoes are

polished/Washed ? Why ? because the occasion demands it. It is something

away from the normal routine. There is a speciality treatment which our

minds are trained automatically to address and act.

 

f. Similarly when you try to visit temple /God, pray etc. is it not a

special occasion? Will you dare to meet the Chief Executive of your

company or the Principal of your college in unkempt hair, unshaved and

wearing crumpled clothes? And the DIVYA DAMPATHIS are the Chief Executives

for the entire mankind!!!!.

 

The Greatest of the Greatest Maha Vishnu is referred also as "ALANKARA

PRIYAR" (ONE WHO LIKES TO BE ADORNED WHO LIKES GOOD DRESS, CLEANLINESS,

ORDERLINESS, DECORATION,)

 

And since this involves matter of the special occasion + dealing with

spirit (that which cannot be ordinarily percieved by the sense organs),

this requires special conditions conducive for such an engagement.

 

g. Now what are these conditions? The Yoga Sutra of Patanjali written over

2000 years back valid even today amplifies the oft repeated Vedic stricture

namely, Souchya i.e. cleanliness. It is a simple one word but loaded with

deeper meaning/interpretations. Cleanliness covers physical, external,

internal and mental. If there is noise you cannot concentrate and noise

therefore even if pleasant, even if it is a holy song is a disturbance; bad

smelling surroundings will affect the concentration; an unpleasant feeling

will disturb and persist when teeth /mouth is washed or if bath is not

taken; an unclean, disorganised physical things will disturb the eyes;

 

In fact all these disturbing factors will first be percieved by the senses

and then conveyed to the mind which will accordingly react and ultimately

the 'pure' clear', silent, empty state will not be obtained and this in

turn will be an hinderence to our attempt to establish contact with the

spiritual plane.

 

h) For a image to be clear, both the sending TV station and the receiving

TV set has to be fine tuned to a mathematical precision. Both should be

without impurity, dust. In between as the signals are travelling there

should not be great natural disturbances like storm, wind, thunder etc.

Many times we must have experienced during a TV show sudden waves on the

screen. What is this? Nothing but external disturbance which impacts the

signals and finally the quality of picture we see.

 

In the same manner, the human receiver with normal senses should move (fold

away- mati) him/herself away from disturbances so that the senses can

receive super normal,abnormal,sub normal signals from the spiritual plane.

 

This is what meditation is all about. What is the end result after the

contact is done and finished? A sense of calmness, peaceful, restful,

relaxed mental, body and breathing conditions. One feels refreshed and

capable of doing things creatively, effectively.

 

i. "Acharam/Mati" are therefore, as Shri Visu has rightly pointed out

"fold/retreat, moving away" i.e.a condition fit for spiritual pursuits to

be established. Otherwise the pursuit will be unsuccessful and may land us

in trouble.

 

j. Now let us have a closer look at some of the common "Mati/Acharam"

features. All these strictures are conditions where impurities are either

created, discharged or made to remain static.

 

Created Static

discharged/destroyed

 

leftover food yeast/bacteria freshness

fungus growth, foul

smell; fermentation

 

 

Haircut possible infectious

condition as we are

body parts /cells dead cells

in touch with the public

saloon/implements/

barber

 

 

Menstruation Mental inconvenience dead cells

possible unhygenic

conditions

 

Child birth labour pains dead cells

possible unhygenic

conditions

 

 

Pungent /aromatic enhanced salivation; Satvic

tendencies

food like onions Desire, enhanced calmness

garlic etc. activity

 

 

In all these cases, you will see there is constant creation and

destruction. The static mode is generally not present. And Satva is the

sign of static being. Satva incidentally is symbolised by "Maha Vishnu"

i.e. sustainer and maintainer. When there is destruction and creation

taking place then there is no room for receiptivity or perfectness of Satva

tendency which is why the receiver becomes incapable of receiving the

sender(spirit's) impressions (refer h above)

 

And what is our purpose for engaging ourselves in the Puja, prayer etc. ?

If we are mentally, physically, psychologically, emotionally not fit, then

how can we receive the blessings or convey our prayers. There is

disturbence all of which cannot be seen but which exist and which cannot be

disproved also.

 

Hope one has managed to give some insight into this controversial topic

 

 

 

 

Visu9

s.ramachandran,

12/31/02 06:42 ,

japa78

PM cc:

Re: from

mukund

 

 

 

 

 

/namastE Shri Mukund.

 

I think we can get a better understanding of /acAram and /maTi if we try to

capture the basic ideas behind it. One way to do this is to look at the

meaning of these words. What do these words mean? Are there English

equivalents or are these ideas unique to us?

 

Let me attempt by beginning with the word /maTi.

 

A relevant meaning for /maTi is "retreat" or "withdrawal". The word comes

from /maTittal --- to fold. We fold a paper; that is /maTittal. What

happens? The full-size has become half-size. The paper has been withdrawn

from its full use.

 

Retreat is a religious idea seeking withdrawal from the world to be in

unuion with God for a few minutes or a few days. Catholics practice /maTi,

when they enter into retreat every year --- even children. No talk for most

of the day. Only reading.

 

The word /maTi has negative use too! You must withdraw of course routinely,

not for ever! When you do that you are a /maTayan, one who has separated

himself or hesrelf from reality of the world. He or she has built an

isoalted world good only for hin or her. That is /maTayan. A very god

example is given by /maHA/kavi subramanya bhAratiyAr. /mAtar tammai iZivu

ceyyun maTamaiyaik koZuttuvOm. That is a stupid isolation of women from

public life until Gandhiji came.

 

There is a pleasnat use of the word /maTi. Women are iften bashful. Let a

boy of 16 0r 16 tell a little girl of 14 how pretty she is. She is going to

fold. She is a /maTantai. A /maTantai is a woman slim enough to be able to

fold! (Sorry, not putting down others; I cannot change the meaning of

words!).

 

I hope it is clear to you that /maTi in the sense of "retreat" is good for

all of us. What we need to do is to get expand the current concept of /maTi

to one where people reamin in "retreat camps" For example, /gItai maTi will

be an occasion for people to fold into the /gItA.

 

/vantanam.

 

Visu

[Guest guest]

I think we can get a better understanding of AchAram if we try to understanding

the basic meaning of it.

 

What is the actual meaning of AchAram? Its a Sanskrit word. its vpupatti is like

like this:

 

Aa charyate iti AchAra:

 

Aa means good.

 

charyate - lead.

 

one who lead to some good is actually called as AchAravan. Who actually follows

this? our father is a AchArya:. We shud follow whatever he says.(Rama followed

Dasharath'a word) Thats why, people try to follow their forefathers. Whatever

his forefathers have followed, if the same thing have been followed by people

then they r called as AchAravan.

 

Then if u see people those who follow AchAram, they r just following the

naturality of life(there will be some purity in that). They will wear only

washed clothes. take only sAthvic food. dont take outside food bcoz it might

have some contanmination. Actually these shud be followed by everyone under any

circumstances.

 

Till now, if u have not followed it, then try to implement these small things.

further its very important to do sandyavandanam. Without which whatever the work

u do is a waste.

 

Munitrayan.

 

 

 

 

 

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