Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 Oppiliappan, vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan> wrote: The question is this: WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF GOD?? > > Well, every "thing" should have an origin, atleast according to human perception. If Sriman Narayana is God, what about his origins, I mean, has he always been resting on the bed of Sesha?? The question thats arising in my mind is, shouldn't he have an origin, or something that created him?? ****************************** Dear friend, This is a tough question you ask. Answers are many. But you can hope to get clarity only from within yourself. Vachagatta once asked his guru, the Buddha a question: "On leaving the body where forth does the soul proceed?" The Budda replied: "Vacha, the phrase "does proceed" does not apply to the soul". Vacha then asked, "Master, then let me put the question in a different way. Where forth does the soul not proceed after leaving this body?". The Budda replied: "Vacha, the phrase "does not proceed" does not apply to the soul". Vacha then continued to question: "Master, if the expressions "does proceed" and "does not proceed" do not apply to the soul, then surely we can say "The soul neither 'proceeds' nor 'not proceed'?" The Buddha replied: "Vacha, the phrase "The soul neither 'proceeds' nor 'not proceed'" also does not apply to the soul". At this Vacha lost all his patience. He said with some vehemance to the Buddha, "Master, if we say the phrase "proceeds" does not apply to the soul; and if we say the phrase "does not proceed" also does not apply to the soul; and furthermore, if we say that the phrase "neither proceeds nor proceeds not" also does not apply to the soul, then Master, what am I to make of the nature of the soul?" The Buddha on hearing this from Vachagatta told him to light a small fire. SO Vacha gathered some bits of wood and dry leaves and lit them into a small fire. The Buddha and his disciple both watched the fire blaze for a while and then it gradually went out by itself. The Buddha then turned to Vacha and asked: "Vacha tell me, where did the fire that burned before us a few moments ago, where did that fire proceed?" Vacha said, "Sir, that fire did not proceed anywhere". Buddha then asked, "Vacha, if you say the fire did not proceed anywhere, then wherefrom did it proceed?". "Sir, that fire did not proceed from anywhere. It emanated from the fuel of wooden bits and leaves that I gathered. When the fuel is burnt out the fire too ceases. The fire itself neither proceeds from nor proceed to anywhere. Fire is Fire. It just exists. It is there. When it is fuelled it shows itself. When the fuel runs out it goes out of appearance. But Fire as Fire exists at all times." The Buddha smiled and asked his disciple innocently: "But Vacha, if you say that "fire neither proceeds from nor proceed to anywhere" what am I to make of the nature of the fire?" It then dawned on Vachagatta what the Buddha had all along been trying to tell him about the nature of the Soul -- that it is eternal, it is uncaused, it has neither origin nor end, and phrases such as 'proceeds from' and 'proceed to' simply do not apply to it. **************************** Hope the above story will help you, my friend, albeit in a small way, to understand that God too does not have an origin. God is just is...! The phrase "origin", "cause", "reason", "beginning" or "creation" etc. all just do not apply to God --- in the very same way as the Buddha taught his disciple Vacha that Fire neither 'proceeds from' nor 'proceed to' anywhere. Regards, dAsan, Sudarshan Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 I beg to add a few comments. I understand that some of the epithets of the Lord in the SahasranAmam answer this question. For instance, 'anAdihi' (derived from "na Adihi yasya sah") - One Who has no beginning and 'anantaha' ("na antaha yasya sah") - One Who has no end, and "Atmayonihi' ("Atmanaha yonihi") - He is His own cause / origin. Humble namaskarams, Ranganath Chakravarthy M.K.Sudarshan [sampathkumar_2000] Sunday, March 23, 2003 3:02 PM Oppiliappan Cc: tiruvengadam; Re: A very Scary Question!! Oppiliappan, vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan> wrote: The question is this: WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF GOD?? > > Well, every "thing" should have an origin, atleast according to human perception. If Sriman Narayana is God, what about his origins, I mean, has he always been resting on the bed of Sesha?? The question thats arising in my mind is, shouldn't he have an origin, or something that created him?? ****************************** Dear friend, This is a tough question you ask. Answers are many. But you can hope to get clarity only from within yourself. Vachagatta once asked his guru, the Buddha a question: "On leaving the body where forth does the soul proceed?" The Budda replied: "Vacha, the phrase "does proceed" does not apply to the soul". Vacha then asked, "Master, then let me put the question in a different way. Where forth does the soul not proceed after leaving this body?". The Budda replied: "Vacha, the phrase "does not proceed" does not apply to the soul". Vacha then continued to question: "Master, if the expressions "does proceed" and "does not proceed" do not apply to the soul, then surely we can say "The soul neither 'proceeds' nor 'not proceed'?" The Buddha replied: "Vacha, the phrase "The soul neither 'proceeds' nor 'not proceed'" also does not apply to the soul". At this Vacha lost all his patience. He said with some vehemance to the Buddha, "Master, if we say the phrase "proceeds" does not apply to the soul; and if we say the phrase "does not proceed" also does not apply to the soul; and furthermore, if we say that the phrase "neither proceeds nor proceeds not" also does not apply to the soul, then Master, what am I to make of the nature of the soul?" The Buddha on hearing this from Vachagatta told him to light a small fire. SO Vacha gathered some bits of wood and dry leaves and lit them into a small fire. The Buddha and his disciple both watched the fire blaze for a while and then it gradually went out by itself. The Buddha then turned to Vacha and asked: "Vacha tell me, where did the fire that burned before us a few moments ago, where did that fire proceed?" Vacha said, "Sir, that fire did not proceed anywhere". Buddha then asked, "Vacha, if you say the fire did not proceed anywhere, then wherefrom did it proceed?". "Sir, that fire did not proceed from anywhere. It emanated from the fuel of wooden bits and leaves that I gathered. When the fuel is burnt out the fire too ceases. The fire itself neither proceeds from nor proceed to anywhere. Fire is Fire. It just exists. It is there. When it is fuelled it shows itself. When the fuel runs out it goes out of appearance. But Fire as Fire exists at all times." The Buddha smiled and asked his disciple innocently: "But Vacha, if you say that "fire neither proceeds from nor proceed to anywhere" what am I to make of the nature of the fire?" It then dawned on Vachagatta what the Buddha had all along been trying to tell him about the nature of the Soul -- that it is eternal, it is uncaused, it has neither origin nor end, and phrases such as 'proceeds from' and 'proceed to' simply do not apply to it. **************************** Hope the above story will help you, my friend, albeit in a small way, to understand that God too does not have an origin. God is just is...! The phrase "origin", "cause", "reason", "beginning" or "creation" etc. all just do not apply to God --- in the very same way as the Buddha taught his disciple Vacha that Fire neither 'proceeds from' nor 'proceed to' anywhere. Regards, dAsan, Sudarshan Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum. Srirangasri- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Jai Ramanuja, I agree that everything should have some beginning logically.But if you extend this logic you will ask next what is the origin of the origin of GOD.HENCE THERE IS NO END TO IT.Hence the sciptures say that the origin of world ends in the God who by definition does not have a beginning. ] >Sunday, March 23, 2003 3:02 PM >Oppiliappan >Cc: tiruvengadam; > Re: A very Scary Question!! > >Oppiliappan, vimalkumar ranganathan ><panardasan> wrote: > The question is this: WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF GOD?? > > > > Well, every "thing" should have an origin, atleast according >to >human perception. If Sriman Narayana is God, what about his >origins, >I mean, has he always been resting on the bed of Sesha?? The >question >thats arising in my mind is, shouldn't he have an origin, or >something that created him?? On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 Chakravarthy V R (MICO/CEP-ECU) wrote : >I beg to add a few comments. >I understand that some of the epithets of the Lord in the >SahasranAmam answer this question. > >For instance, >'anAdihi' (derived from "na Adihi yasya sah") - One Who has no >beginning and >'anantaha' ("na antaha yasya sah") - One Who has no end, and > >"Atmayonihi' ("Atmanaha yonihi") - He is His own cause / >origin. > >Humble namaskarams, >Ranganath Chakravarthy > > > M.K.Sudarshan [sampathkumar_2000 > ****************************** > >Dear friend, > >This is a tough question you ask. Answers are many. But you can >hope >to get clarity only from within yourself. > >Vachagatta once asked his guru, the Buddha a question: "On >leaving >the body where forth does the soul proceed?" > >The Budda replied: "Vacha, the phrase "does proceed" does not >apply >to the soul". > >Vacha then asked, "Master, then let me put the question in a >different way. Where forth does the soul not proceed after >leaving >this body?". > >The Budda replied: "Vacha, the phrase "does not proceed" does >not >apply to the soul". > >Vacha then continued to question: "Master, if the expressions >"does >proceed" and "does not proceed" do not apply to the soul, then >surely >we can say "The soul neither 'proceeds' nor 'not proceed'?" > >The Buddha replied: "Vacha, the phrase "The soul neither >'proceeds' >nor 'not proceed'" also does not apply to the soul". > >At this Vacha lost all his patience. He said with some vehemance >to >the Buddha, "Master, if we say the phrase "proceeds" does not >apply >to the soul; and if we say the phrase "does not proceed" also >does >not apply to the soul; and furthermore, if we say that the >phrase >"neither proceeds nor proceeds not" also does not apply to the >soul, >then Master, what am I to make of the nature of the soul?" > >The Buddha on hearing this from Vachagatta told him to light a >small >fire. SO Vacha gathered some bits of wood and dry leaves and lit >them >into a small fire. The Buddha and his disciple both watched the >fire >blaze for a while and then it gradually went out by itself. > >The Buddha then turned to Vacha and asked: "Vacha tell me, where >did >the fire that burned before us a few moments ago, where did that >fire >proceed?" > >Vacha said, "Sir, that fire did not proceed anywhere". > >Buddha then asked, "Vacha, if you say the fire did not proceed >anywhere, then wherefrom did it proceed?". > >"Sir, that fire did not proceed from anywhere. It emanated from >the >fuel of wooden bits and leaves that I gathered. When the fuel >is >burnt out the fire too ceases. The fire itself neither proceeds > from >nor proceed to anywhere. Fire is Fire. It just exists. It is >there. >When it is fuelled it shows itself. When the fuel runs out it >goes >out of appearance. But Fire as Fire exists at all times." > >The Buddha smiled and asked his disciple innocently: "But Vacha, >if >you say that "fire neither proceeds from nor proceed to >anywhere" >what am I to make of the nature of the fire?" > >It then dawned on Vachagatta what the Buddha had all along been >trying to tell him about the nature of the Soul -- that it is >eternal, it is uncaused, it has neither origin nor end, and >phrases >such as 'proceeds from' and 'proceed to' simply do not apply to >it. > > **************************** > >Hope the above story will help you, my friend, albeit in a small >way, >to understand that God too does not have an origin. God is just >is...! The phrase "origin", "cause", "reason", "beginning" or >"creation" etc. all just do not apply to God --- in the very same >way >as the Buddha taught his disciple Vacha that Fire neither >'proceeds > from' nor 'proceed to' anywhere. > >Regards, > >dAsan, >Sudarshan > > > > > Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your >desktop! >http://platinum. > > > > >Srirangasri- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor > > >Srirangasri- > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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