The Vedas and Divya Prabandham

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavatas:

This is a good question.

But, may I request those who wish to respond do so by private mail to

Sri Jayaram T with a copy marked to Ramanbil?

Thanks

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

=============================================================

 

 

Dear Mr. Srivaishnavan,

 

I am a new member of this group. I joined quite recently and am trying to follow

the proceedings of this group. Your email has been greatly useful in how well it

orderly presents the pasurams of the Divya Prabandham by the authors/composers.

 

There was something in your email I wished to have your opinion on. Why is it

that the Divya Prabandham is commonly referred to as the Tamil Vedas? In my

opinion, the Divya Prabandham and the Vedas have radically different content.

While the Vedas attempt to provide deep insights into Metaphysics and

self-realization, the Divya Prabandham attempts to glorify bhakthi and

saranagati. The Vedas are science while the Divya Prabandham is devotion. How

can they be synonymous?

 

Please let me know your opinion on the above.

 

Thanks,

Jayaram Thiagarajan

 

 

srivaishnavan <srivaishnavan wrote:

SrI:

SrImathE Gopaladesika mahadesikaya namah:

Dearest Srivaishnavas,

 

Here is what aDiyEn wrote a couple of years ago on Divya prabandham

count: [thought would share with you on the subject]

SrI:

SrImathE Ramanujaya namah:

Dearest srivaishnavas,

Divya prabandham - the four thousand Tamil devotional hymns

(pAsurams) sung by the Divine Ten AzhwArs, Sri Andal and Sri

Madhurakavi AzhwAr and Sri Thiruvarangatthu Amudhanaar - are

reverentially praised as 4000 and Tamil Vedas. They are called Vedas

because they reflect the relevant protions of Vedas in unambiguous

terms and they do not speak of anything other than Vedas, directly

or indirectly. The PAsurams of the AzhwArs and Sri Andal praise the

Lord with His Divine consort in his varied incarnations, expressing

the depth of devotion in which they were immersed, their divine

experiences and also praying for the eternal bliss of association

with Him and service to Him.

 

Sri Madhurakavi AzhwAr's 11 pAsurams were in praise of his Acharya

Sri NammAzhwAr and Sri Thiruvarangatthu Amudhanaar¡¦s 108 pAsurams

on Sri Ramanuja's glories are also in 4000. (this 108 Pasurams of

Amudhanaar were added later into this 4000). Owing to the great

esteem in which Sri NammAzhwAr and Sri Ramanujar are held in the

tradition of Acharyas, the PAsurams extolling them are also included

in the four thousand devotional hymns worshipping the Lord.

 

Before we outline their number of pAsurams (as to how it gets added

to 4000), let us see their origin and dates of birth. Tradition

assigns high antiquity to the AzhwArs taking them to 4200 BCE to

2700 BCE and also regards them as Divine incarnations (as amsaas of

the Lord¡¦s paraphernalia). According to guru paramparas, the first

four AzhwArs namely Poigai AzhwAr, BhUtatthAzhwAr, PEyAzhwAr and

Thirumazhisai AzhwAr were born at the end of Dwapara yuga, which

corresponds to 4200 BCE. Madhurakavi also is belived to be born in

Dwapara yuga corresponding to 3200 BCE. NammAzhwAr, KulasekarAzhwAr,

PeriyAzhwAr and ANdAL were born during the first century of Kaliyuga

which approximates to 3103 BCE to 3003 BCE. The remaining three

AzhwArs ThoNdaradippodi AzhwAr, ThiruppAN AzhwAr and Thirumangai

AzhwAr took birth in the years of 298, 343 and 399 respectively in

the Kaliyuga which corresponds to 2803, 2758 and 2702 BCE. (From A

Govindacharya, the Holy lives of Alwars).

 

However, the modern scholars have questioned these dates and

assigned a period ranging from 5th to the 9th centuries CE on the

basis of a few historical evidences, though there is no unanimity

among them on the dates. Whatever it is the order in which they

would have appeared is:

 

Mudhal AzhwArs (First three AzhwArs- Poigai, PhUtha, PEy AzhwArs);

Thirumazhisai AzhwAr,

Madhurakavi AzhwAr

NammAzhwAr

PeriyAzhwAr

AndAL

KulasekaraAzhwAr

ThoNdaradipodi AzhwAr

ThiruppAN AzhwAr and

Thirumangai AzhwAr

 

Further, the reference sis there in Srimath Bhagawatham to the birth

of these AzhwArs:

In the beginning of Kaliyuga, persons exclusively devoted to

Narayana and endowed with spiritual knowledge will be born here and

there but in large numbers in the land of the Draavidas where the

flow of rivers ThaamaraparaNi, Krtamaalaa (Vaigai), Payasvini

(Paalaar), the holy river cauveri, and the MahaanadhI (PeriyaaRu),

which runs westwards.

 

kalau khalu Bhavishyanthi nArAyaNa parAyaNa:

kvachin kvachi mahAbhAga drAmidEsu cha bhUrisa:

thAmaraparaNi nadI yatra krtamaalaa payasvinI:

kAvErI cha mahAbhAgA prathIchI cha mahAnadhI (Srimad Bhagawatham- XI-

5- 38-39)

 

It is to be noted that NammAzhwAr and Madhurakavi AzhwAr were born

in the banks of ThamaraparaNi; PeriyAzhwAr and ANDAL in a place

close to Vaigai (madurai); Poigai AzhwAr, PhUthathAzhwAr, PeyAzhwAr,

and Thirumazhisai AzhwAr near the Paalaar and ThoNdaradippodi

AzhwAr, ThiruppANAzhwAr, Thirumangai AzhwAr on the banks of the

river Cauveri. The dates are not however relevant for enjoyment of

their divine pAsurams of course. The important point is that they

were all born before Sri Nathamuni (823 CE) and Ramanuja (1017 CE)

who were greatly influenced by their pAsurams and teachings and

after period of Agamas, the epics and Puranas, as their PAsurams

reflect the deep knowledge of these Agamas, epics and puranas.

 

Let us look at the count:

A composer wise count of 4000 given by Swamy Sri Vedantha Desikan:

from Prabhandha saaram- 15 and 16).

(I am not going to transliterate those prabandhams- just the

meanings. Should some one need, I will send them) :

(meaning of the 15 and 16 prbandhams of Prabandha saaram, of Swamy

desikan)

 

1. Mudhal AzhwArs (Poigai, PudhathAzhwAr, and PeyAzhwAr) sang 300;

(mudhal, irandaam and moonRaam nooranthaadhi- 100 each)

2. Thirumazhisai AzhwAr sang 216 (120- Thirucchandha viruttham; 96-

Naanmukhan Thiruvandhaathi)

3. MaaRan (Sri NaamAzhwAr) sang 1296 as the essence of Vedas

containing true spiritual teachings-[ Thiruviruttham- 100;

Thiruvaaasiriyam- 7; Periya ThiruvandhAthi- 87; Thiruvaaymozhi-

1102; ]

4. MadhurakavigaL (who showed the path of devotion to Aacharya) sang

11 (Kanninun chRrutthambu);

5. Kulasekara AzhwAr (king of Vanji land) sang 105 (PerumAL

Thirumozhi)

6. PeriyAzhwAr (Bhatta nAthan) sang 473 pAsurams which shines as the

literature for music.

7. Kodhai (Sri Andal) who was an incarnation of Sri BhUmi PiraaTTi

Herself) sang 173 (ThiruppAvai-30; Naacchiyaar Thirumozhi- 143)

8. ThoNdaradippodi AzhwAr- (Patthar adippodi) sang fifty five

(Thiruppalliyezhiucchi- 10; Thirumaalai- 45)

9. PaaNar (ThiruppANAzhwAr) sang 10 (Amalanaadhipiraan)

10. Parakalan (Thirumangai AzhwAr) sang 1253 in all praising the

glorious Lord of Thirumalai Sri Srinivasan, the father of the world,

[Periya Thirumozhi- 1084; ThirukkuRunthANDakam- 20;

ThirunedunthANdakam- 30; ThiruvezhukkuRRirukkai- 1; SiRiya

Thirumadal- 40; Periya Thirumadal- 78]

 

11. Sri Thiruvarangatthu Amudhanaar- (during Sri Ramanuja's time)

sang 108 pAsurams praising the beautiful Lotus Feet of YathirAjar

(Sri Ramanuja) who showed us the path to mOksham (Salvation).

 

Add the above:- You get 4000. These four thousand hymns sung and

left by these saints for the welfare of all in all directions of the

world are the source of prosperity for the lives of ours -who are

servants of the Lord and His devotees.

 

The Naalaayiram (4000) is organized as follows:

1. FIRST 1000- PeriyAzhwAr Thirumozhi; ThiruppAvai; Naacchiyaar

Thirumozhi; PerumAL Thirumozhi; Thirucchandha Viruttham;

Thirumaalai; Thiruppalliyezhucchi; Amalanadhipiran;

KaNNinunchIrutthaambhu; - nine works. (Total- 947 pAsurams)

2. Second 1000- Periya Thirumozhi; ThirukkuRunthANdakam;

ThirunedunthANdakam; - three works (Total- 1134 pAsurams)

3. Third 1000- Thiruvaymozhi alone- (1102 pAsurams)

4. Fourth 1000- mudhal, iraNdaam and mooNraam nooRanthAdhi;

Thirumazhisai AzhwAr¡¦s naanmukhan ThiruvanthAdhi; Thiruviruttham;

Thiruvaasiriyam; Periya ThiruvanthAthi; ThiruvezhukkuRRirukkai;

SiRiya Thirumadal; Periya Thirumadal; Iraamaanusa NooRanthAthi (11

works- Total- 817 pAsurams)

 

TOTAL- 4000.

 

 

> > I had some queries on the Divya Prabandam. Firstly, does

perivAccAn piLLai's "divya prabanda pAShura rAmAyaNa" or better

known as "pAShurappaDi rAmAyaNam" belong in the prabandam or is it

an extension of the prabandam (i.e. anubandam???)

> >

> > Secondly, I attended a lecdem on the Divya Prabadam during the

Music Academy of Madras annual music conferences, and the

commentator mentioned that in fact the prabandam was named "nAlAyira

divya prabandam" from purposes of convenience but in fact it totaled

up to only about 3,7XX number of pAShurams.

> >

> > Appreciate it if someone could verify this.

> >

> >

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> > Srirangasri-

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> > Your use of is subject to

 

> >

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> >

 

 

 

Srirangasri-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir

Bhakti is the last stage where one can find peace.By properly studying

vedantha we can understand Bhakti. even Sri Veda Vyasa who codified all

Vedas and not satisfied wote Srimad Bhagavatham a Bhaki devotional Text .

Then he got satisfaction that is the power of Bhakthi, . The same is with

Sri Adi Sankara who studied all Vedas, Upanishads , Puranas and all texts

available at that time but finally he wrote BhajaGovindam that is the power

of Bhakti.

This is my humble opinion

bhattathiry adyan

-

"Jayaram T" <jayaram_t

"srivaishnavan" <srivaishnavan;

<>

Friday, September 19, 2003 10:22 AM

The Vedas and Divya Prabandham

 

 

Dear Bhagavatas:

This is a good question.

But, may I request those who wish to respond do so by private mail to

Sri Jayaram T with a copy marked to Ramanbil?

Thanks

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

============================================================================

=============================================

 

Dear Mr. Srivaishnavan,

 

I am a new member of this group. I joined quite recently and am trying to

follow the proceedings of this group. Your email has been greatly useful in

how well it orderly presents the pasurams of the Divya Prabandham by the

authors/composers.

 

There was something in your email I wished to have your opinion on. Why is

it that the Divya Prabandham is commonly referred to as the Tamil Vedas? In

my opinion, the Divya Prabandham and the Vedas have radically different

content. While the Vedas attempt to provide deep insights into Metaphysics

and self-realization, the Divya Prabandham attempts to glorify bhakthi and

saranagati. The Vedas are science while the Divya Prabandham is devotion.

How can they be synonymous?

 

Please let me know your opinion on the above.

 

Thanks,

Jayaram Thiagarajan