Painful act at Temples

[Guest guest]

Dear SriVaishnavaites,

 

 

 

On last Sunday, (Jan 11) I was blessed to visit tiruveLLikEni temple and had

divyadarsanam of swami’s thirumanjanam. Koshti of swamis were reciting Upanishad

for thirumanjanam. I also was reciting but no one objected. In the crowd, I saw

one of the devotees who had come with the family and was reciting Upanishad. But

as he belongs to vadakalai sampradaya, one of the swamis came over immediately

and stopped him reciting. Being from thennacharya sampradayam myself, I felt bad

as I saw him as an srivaishnavaite only and that too who knew Vedas. I heard

that viceversa reservations are shown in tiruveLLur for thennacharya

sampradayis. I strongly feel that there should be only a philosophical reason

for these divisions.

 

 

 

My question to the enlightened group here is how come we are divided like this

as both sampradayams accept Srimad Ramanuja as Acharya. And in his life we see

that he was enlightened by thirukachi swami and maaranEri nambi who were from

the so called low caste. For the insult done to his acharya thirukachi nambi

swami, srimad Ramanuja took a decision to walk out of the family even. But by

having and practising these type of above mentioned actions at temples, are we

not insulting Srimad Ramanuja?.

 

 

 

Then what is the use of praising alwars like nammalwar, tirupaaNaazwar etc and

reciting nambaaduvaan's history when we cant practise the same. When nammalwar

or nambaaduvaan appears now and , will we treat them like this? I feel so as we

are not practising what our great acharya Ramanuja said.

 

 

 

Forgive me as i have busted out with pain. But this is not an emotional

outburst. Being an youngster, I seek the elders to enlighten me on this.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Srinath

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Srinath Venkatakrishnan:

 

Thank you for your kind observations....I enjoy

listening to all slokas, divya prabandham, etc... and

where possible join in the singing. When one becomes

so overwhelmed with his or her own kind is better than

the other's that person's knowledge [Veda] is close to

ignorance practised with arrogance. It is unfortunate

that we have that worldwide - and most conflicts are

as a result of that.

 

Regards,

 

Neelameggham

 

 

--- Srinath Venkatakrishnan

<srinath_venkatakrishnan wrote:

>

> Dear SriVaishnavaites,

>

>

>

> On last Sunday, (Jan 11) I was blessed to visit

> tiruveLLikEni temple and had divyadarsanam of

> swami’s thirumanjanam. Koshti of swamis were

> reciting Upanishad for thirumanjanam. I also was

> reciting but no one objected. In the crowd, I saw

> one of the devotees who had come with the family and

> was reciting Upanishad. But as he belongs to

> vadakalai sampradaya, one of the swamis came over

> immediately and stopped him reciting. Being from

> thennacharya sampradayam myself, I felt bad as I saw

> him as an srivaishnavaite only and that too who knew

> Vedas. I heard that viceversa reservations are shown

> in tiruveLLur for thennacharya sampradayis. I

> strongly feel that there should be only a

> philosophical reason for these divisions.

>

>

>

> My question to the enlightened group here is how

> come we are divided like this as both sampradayams

> accept Srimad Ramanuja as Acharya. And in his life

> we see that he was enlightened by thirukachi swami

> and maaranEri nambi who were from the so called low

> caste. For the insult done to his acharya thirukachi

> nambi swami, srimad Ramanuja took a decision to walk

> out of the family even. But by having and practising

> these type of above mentioned actions at temples,

> are we not insulting Srimad Ramanuja?.

>

>

>

> Then what is the use of praising alwars like

> nammalwar, tirupaaNaazwar etc and reciting

> nambaaduvaan's history when we cant practise the

> same. When nammalwar or nambaaduvaan appears now and

> , will we treat them like this? I feel so as we are

> not practising what our great acharya Ramanuja said.

>

>

>

> Forgive me as i have busted out with pain. But this

> is not an emotional outburst. Being an youngster, I

> seek the elders to enlighten me on this.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> Srinath

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus"

> Sweepstakes

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dear friends

 

It is no wonder that we have lost our perspectives all together. We became

laughing stock when we did not even spare devotees, or even the temple

elephants---remember the tiruman episode, which went to the Supreme court--?

 

God bless our people

mani

 

r Neelameggham <rneelameggham wrote:

Dear Srinath Venkatakrishnan:

 

Thank you for your kind observations....I enjoy

listening to all slokas, divya prabandham, etc... and

where possible join in the singing. When one becomes

so overwhelmed with his or her own kind is better than

the other's that person's knowledge [Veda] is close to

ignorance practised with arrogance. It is unfortunate

that we have that worldwide - and most conflicts are

as a result of that.

 

Regards,

 

Neelameggham

[Guest guest]

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

 

Adiyen does not have any qualifications to write about

anything but the incident that our respected Sri

Srinath had witnessed has been happenning for a very

long time. Adiyen has also witnessed and personally

experienced such humiliation in Thiruvallikkeni while

I was just giving a humming sound of reciting "Siriya

Thirumadal" during Thaayar purappadu on Friday.

 

The dwesham as one of the learned member mentioned is

not because of the philosophical differences but

purely because of the enimies in one's own self namely

"Krodham", "madham", "maathsaryam".

 

We are living in a so called Sri Vsishnava group

(sorry to mention it as "so called". But it is our

fate that we cannot call our ghoshti as Sri Vaishnava

ghoshti as we dont respect another Sri Vaishnava). We

are living in a group of people where merely due to

ones physical appearance people go to the extent of

changing the thiruman that was originally on Perumal's

thirunetri (meaning literally carving out the lower

portion of thiruman). Being a person from vadakalai

sect., I heard many people saying this. This had

happened in Kancheepuram at adiyen's favourite

perumal's temple. Same way there are many such

incidents told to adiyen by vadakalai sect of people

too. We cannot find out who is true because everyone

is mentioning incidents that suits their side. Its not

fair to talk who is right and who is wrong rather

forget all these and just pray emperumaan and nothing

else can be done to save our sampradaayam.

 

Earlier we worried that there was one Malik Kafur who

troubled our Sri Vaishnava Sri which is thriuvarangam

but now we have many Malik Kafurs within ourselves

that we should protect our sampradayam fromt hem so

that one more invasion doesn't happen. We should be

worried that there should be no other emperumaanaar

born again just to re-establish the already existing

Visishtaadvaitham and Sri Vaishnavism. If this

happpens then we wont be able to forgive ourselves and

we cannot stand in front of perumal when we all see

him at Sri Vaikuntam. We wont be qualifed to be by the

side of our emperumaanaar at Sri Vaikuntam to do

eternal service to lord.

 

We need to always remember that we are now bold enough

to commit all these apachaarams for the only reason

that nammperumaal has granted moksham to everyone who

has emperumaanaar sambandham and we say "Adiyen

Ramanuja Dasan" and still commit apachaarams. But what

if our emperumaanar gets worried that being born in

his lineage we are committing such apachaarams? Can we

bear such a situation ? If we think of our beloved

emperumaanaar for just a moment and his mahopakaaram,

I am sure all of our eyes will be in tears. If

emperumaanaar himself gets unsatisfied then how canwe

expect emperumaan to grant us Sri Vaikuntam ? This is

what we forget. Emperumaan says the only apachaaram

that will nullify parapatti is doing an apachaaram to

any living being in this world and that too typicaly

if one takes the name of our sweet lord we cannot even

think of ill treating that bhagavatha even in our

dreams. Now lets think ourselves that do we really

want our prapatti nullified ? The answer should be

within everyone's mind.

 

 

We need to have some of our poorvaachaaryas amongst us

to answer these queries. As one of our learned member

says even if those mahaanubhaavaas come directly they

will be separated as a separate ghoshti and people

will ill treat them. This is why after emperumaanaar ,

swamy desikan and swamy maamunigal none incarnated as

jagadhaachaaryaas (I mean as equal to them). Of course

there can be only one jagadhaachaarya who is Swamy

emperumaanaar. Even swamy emperumaanaar at Sri

Preumboodhoor had to undergo lots of trouble in

establishing himself in his original form inside the

temple.

 

We can only think of all these and pray emperumaan and

nothing else. Even if a sect of few people try and

start reforming this the current group of so called

Sri Vaishnavas are so strong that they wont allow this

to ever happen. Still there are so many good hearted

and learned scholars in both kalais who are fighting

for this reformity but we can only see that there is

no respect paid to these mahaanubhaavaas at all and

hence it has come to a state that some of them dont

even go to temple because of this controversy.

 

Adiyen wonder how people get time or all these trivial

matters back home or adiyen think probably that they

have made this as their vruthi (Job) to run their

daily life. But let us not be very severe on these sri

vaishnavas that they will get punished by emperumaan.

We if we think we can be a true Sri Vaishnava we can

pray to emperumaan that "Adiyomodum ninnodum

pirivindri aayiram pallanndu". Lets include them. They

are not to be ignored but corrected (by emperumaan

himself) so that they also enjoy the anubhavams of our

great poorvaachaaryaas on ermperumaan.

 

Adiyen just thought of putting adiyen's views. I know

adiyen is going to get my inbox piled with so many

emails in the next few minutes or hours against many

of adiyen's lines as this is the trend happenning in

most of the E-Groups.

 

(unfortunately Sri Vaishnava unity is also not there

in such too. I am being very frank in telling

this because I have been a member of so many groups

but adiyen has seen so many arguments and unwanted

discussion about many trivial matters and also

regadrig the same issue oif vadakalai and thenkalai.

stopped reading all those unless if they talk about

bhagavath vishayam or bhagavatha vishayam. )

 

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

[Guest guest]

Dear Srinath,

 

This is Rupa's husband Narasimhan. I am writing this

without knowledge of rules to recite Upanishad but

generally. Please forgive me, if there are any

rules(dresswise etc.) while reciting it.

 

These type of things happen in this material world as

no one knows what they are doing but can explain

others what not to do. If everyone is reciting

Upanishad, then there is no wrong in reciting the same

Upanishad by anyone like the person who came with

family. But he should maintain "low voice" when

compared to the actual acharyas in the temple. Because

they are the main who are doing their job.

 

If he is maintaing that low voice recitation and

Acharya stops him just because he is from other caste

or vadaghalai or tengalai, then it is not to be done.

 

Acharya has "actually" no right to stop that

particular person, unless he recites something else

other the people reciting there and may be disturbing

to them.

 

Though we know that, these things should not be done

based on caste, we may have to tell such persons only

if we occupy a respectable position for such person

who stopped him reciting. Otherwise, should leave it

to GOD. These things should be taught only in the

childhood. If not, we need to ignore leaving it go GOD

I guess.

 

I am very welcome for any comments or suggestions. I

am still learning. Hence no hard feeling about any

comments.

 

Thank you very much.

Regards

Narasimhan

--- Srinath Venkatakrishnan

<srinath_venkatakrishnan wrote:

>

> Dear SriVaishnavaites,

>

>

>

> On last Sunday, (Jan 11) I was blessed to visit

> tiruveLLikEni temple and had divyadarsanam of

> swami’s thirumanjanam. Koshti of swamis were

> reciting Upanishad for thirumanjanam. I also was

> reciting but no one objected. In the crowd, I saw

> one of the devotees who had come with the family and

> was reciting Upanishad. But as he belongs to

> vadakalai sampradaya, one of the swamis came over

> immediately and stopped him reciting. Being from

> thennacharya sampradayam myself, I felt bad as I saw

> him as an srivaishnavaite only and that too who knew

> Vedas. I heard that viceversa reservations are shown

> in tiruveLLur for thennacharya sampradayis. I

> strongly feel that there should be only a

> philosophical reason for these divisions.

>

>

>

> My question to the enlightened group here is how

> come we are divided like this as both sampradayams

> accept Srimad Ramanuja as Acharya. And in his life

> we see that he was enlightened by thirukachi swami

> and maaranEri nambi who were from the so called low

> caste. For the insult done to his acharya thirukachi

> nambi swami, srimad Ramanuja took a decision to walk

> out of the family even. But by having and practising

> these type of above mentioned actions at temples,

> are we not insulting Srimad Ramanuja?.

>

>

>

> Then what is the use of praising alwars like

> nammalwar, tirupaaNaazwar etc and reciting

> nambaaduvaan's history when we cant practise the

> same. When nammalwar or nambaaduvaan appears now and

> , will we treat them like this? I feel so as we are

> not practising what our great acharya Ramanuja said.

>

>

>

> Forgive me as i have busted out with pain. But this

> is not an emotional outburst. Being an youngster, I

> seek the elders to enlighten me on this.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> Srinath

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus"

> Sweepstakes

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavatas:

Enough has been said on the subject.

May we close further inputs on the subject in the Journal and move on?

Thanks for your understanding.

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

===============================================================

Well said Shri. Narayanan. The fault is on all sides;

we should have just one side which follows the path of

Bhagavath Ramanuja. Adiyen was also stopped like this

for reciting slected pasuram from prabhandham; (it

doesnt matter to which Kalai I belong) This was a not

a ghosti, I was reciting by myself and that too in a

low voice. I accepted it, because it happened in front

of the Lord; I prayed to Lord Narayana and Lokamatha

who are always listening to us for a better tomorrow.

 

 

Tomorrow is always a ray of hope.

 

Dasan

Aravamudhan

 

 

--- Narayanan Veeraraghavan <narayankv

wrote:

> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

>

> Adiyen does not have any qualifications to write

> about

> anything but the incident that our respected Sri

> Srinath had witnessed has been happenning for a very

> long time. Adiyen has also witnessed and personally

> experienced such humiliation in Thiruvallikkeni

> while

> I was just giving a humming sound of reciting

> "Siriya

> Thirumadal" during Thaayar purappadu on Friday.

>

> The dwesham as one of the learned member mentioned

> is

> not because of the philosophical differences but

> purely because of the enimies in one's own self

> namely

> "Krodham", "madham", "maathsaryam".

>

> We are living in a so called Sri Vsishnava group

> (sorry to mention it as "so called". But it is our

> fate that we cannot call our ghoshti as Sri

> Vaishnava

> ghoshti as we dont respect another Sri Vaishnava).

> We

> are living in a group of people where merely due to

> ones physical appearance people go to the extent of

> changing the thiruman that was originally on

> Perumal's

> thirunetri (meaning literally carving out the lower

> portion of thiruman). Being a person from vadakalai

> sect., I heard many people saying this. This had

> happened in Kancheepuram at adiyen's favourite

> perumal's temple. Same way there are many such

> incidents told to adiyen by vadakalai sect of people

> too. We cannot find out who is true because everyone

> is mentioning incidents that suits their side. Its

> not

> fair to talk who is right and who is wrong rather

> forget all these and just pray emperumaan and

> nothing

> else can be done to save our sampradaayam.

>

> Earlier we worried that there was one Malik Kafur

> who

> troubled our Sri Vaishnava Sri which is

> thriuvarangam

> but now we have many Malik Kafurs within ourselves

> that we should protect our sampradayam fromt hem so

> that one more invasion doesn't happen. We should be

> worried that there should be no other emperumaanaar

> born again just to re-establish the already existing

> Visishtaadvaitham and Sri Vaishnavism. If this

> happpens then we wont be able to forgive ourselves

> and

> we cannot stand in front of perumal when we all see

> him at Sri Vaikuntam. We wont be qualifed to be by

> the

> side of our emperumaanaar at Sri Vaikuntam to do

> eternal service to lord.

>

> We need to always remember that we are now bold

> enough

> to commit all these apachaarams for the only reason

> that nammperumaal has granted moksham to everyone

> who

> has emperumaanaar sambandham and we say "Adiyen

> Ramanuja Dasan" and still commit apachaarams. But

> what

> if our emperumaanar gets worried that being born in

> his lineage we are committing such apachaarams? Can

> we

> bear such a situation ? If we think of our beloved

> emperumaanaar for just a moment and his

> mahopakaaram,

> I am sure all of our eyes will be in tears. If

> emperumaanaar himself gets unsatisfied then how

> canwe

> expect emperumaan to grant us Sri Vaikuntam ? This

> is

> what we forget. Emperumaan says the only apachaaram

> that will nullify parapatti is doing an apachaaram

> to

> any living being in this world and that too typicaly

> if one takes the name of our sweet lord we cannot

> even

> think of ill treating that bhagavatha even in our

> dreams. Now lets think ourselves that do we really

> want our prapatti nullified ? The answer should be

> within everyone's mind.

>

>

> We need to have some of our poorvaachaaryas amongst

> us

> to answer these queries. As one of our learned

> member

> says even if those mahaanubhaavaas come directly

> they

> will be separated as a separate ghoshti and people

> will ill treat them. This is why after emperumaanaar

> ,

> swamy desikan and swamy maamunigal none incarnated

> as

> jagadhaachaaryaas (I mean as equal to them). Of

> course

> there can be only one jagadhaachaarya who is Swamy

> emperumaanaar. Even swamy emperumaanaar at Sri

> Preumboodhoor had to undergo lots of trouble in

> establishing himself in his original form inside the

> temple.

>

> We can only think of all these and pray emperumaan

> and

> nothing else. Even if a sect of few people try and

> start reforming this the current group of so called

> Sri Vaishnavas are so strong that they wont allow

> this

> to ever happen. Still there are so many good hearted

> and learned scholars in both kalais who are fighting

> for this reformity but we can only see that there is

> no respect paid to these mahaanubhaavaas at all and

> hence it has come to a state that some of them dont

> even go to temple because of this controversy.

>

> Adiyen wonder how people get time or all these

> trivial

> matters back home or adiyen think probably that they

> have made this as their vruthi (Job) to run their

> daily life. But let us not be very severe on these

> sri

> vaishnavas that they will get punished by

> emperumaan.

> We if we think we can be a true Sri Vaishnava we can

> pray to emperumaan that "Adiyomodum ninnodum

> pirivindri aayiram pallanndu". Lets include them.

> They

> are not to be ignored but corrected (by emperumaan

> himself) so that they also enjoy the anubhavams of

> our

> great poorvaachaaryaas on ermperumaan.

>

> Adiyen just thought of putting adiyen's views. I

> know

> adiyen is going to get my inbox piled with so many

> emails in the next few minutes or hours against many

> of adiyen's lines as this is the trend happenning in

> most of the E-Groups.

>

> (unfortunately Sri Vaishnava unity is also not there

> in such too. I am being very frank in

> telling

> this because I have been a member of so many groups

> but adiyen has seen so many arguments and unwanted

> discussion about many trivial matters and also

> regadrig the same issue oif vadakalai and thenkalai.

> stopped reading all those unless if they talk about

> bhagavath vishayam or bhagavatha vishayam. )

>

>

> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Swamins:

This is indeed a very frustrating subject because adiyen dont see any viable

solution for this kalai disputes. Also let us not assume or come to a

conclusion that all these have started in Thiruvallikkeni. What has happened

to a Desika Sampradhaya person in Thiruvallikkeni will definitely

reciprocated at Thiruvalloor or for that matter any other Vadakalai

Divyadesams. Because so much mistrust has been developed for the past two to

three hundred years within our community. Let us think for second. What

would be the logical reason for a person in a divyadesam like

Thiruvallikkeni to ask a vadagalai person to stop reciting Vedam or

Prabhandham? If one person is allowed, then some other Vadakalai people will

also join and may be in couple of years all these Vadagalai people may start

asking for more rights and eventually one day who knows may take over the

temple as well. This is what exactly even a vadagalai person lives in a

Divyadesam like Thiruvalloor will think when a Thengalai person tries

participate in their Vedham or Prabhandham recital. Therefore this is

nothing but mistrust. I have lived in Triplicane for more than two decades

and I belong to Sri Ahobila Mutt. I personally never felt any discrimination

because I thoroughly understand the origin of this conflict and never

crossed my limits. In our community, temples are always power centers.

Whichever community has the power naturally would like to retain that.

What could be the solution? There is no easy way out for this age-old

problem. The one important step could be celebrating both Swami Desikan and

Swami Mamunigal's Thirunakshatrams as a community event. Both sect should

paritipate in such evnts. Second thing is not to disturb or alter the status

quo of a temple's sampradhayam. Let us freeze all the status quo for another

50 years. Both the communities will not go to courts for asking new rights.

There should be more interaction between the big Jeeyar Swamis of both

sects. Whoever has the traditional rights in a Divyadesam will continue have

those rights but others will also participate in kainkaryams.

 

But who will do these things? This is not an easy task. I really don't know.

It is very sad and frustrating to see that no one is ther to do this

poonaikku mani kattum vishayam....Only big Acharyas can do this and not an

ordinary person like adiyen.

 

I remember a sloka from "Sri Yathiraja Vaibhavam", a Sanskrit work in 114

verses, which gives the entire life history of Sri Ramanuja by Sri Vaduga

Nambikal. In the tail end of the work, it was mentioned that the so called

"Kali Purusha" or the person in charge of spreading the Kali dharma (where

no dharma will be respected) came to Sri Ramanuja and told him, "because of

you (Sri Ramanuja), I (Kali Purusha) have been chased away. Because of you

(Sri Ramanuja) so much dharma has brought back and I (Kali Purusha)dont have

a place to stay. Therefore when a time comes, I will trouble your

sampradhayam as well." Since we have forgotten a great saint like Sri

Ramanuja, Kali Purusha is troubling us through this Kalai fights, is adiyen'

s opinion. Let us surrender to Swami Sri Yathiraja and spread Sri Ramanuja's

message of absolute surrender to Lord Sriman Narayana.

 

Adiyen Ramanujadasan Kannan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Anbil svAmi,

 

I second your motion with an emphatic "tathAsthu".

 

Rgds,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

,

> Dear Bhagavatas:

> Enough has been said on the subject.

> May we close further inputs on the subject in the Journal and move

on?

> Thanks for your understanding.

> Dasoham

> Anbil Ramaswamy

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavatas:

I have already requested that further discussions on the subject may be stopped.

Numerous mails have been received reiterating what has been said earlier and so,

were not approved. Sorry about this.

 

This will be the last posting on the subject to be approved for release in "Sri

Ranga Sri". If anyone has any new inputs beyond what have been featured so far,

he /she is requested to write to my personal id: "Ramanbil"

 

Thanks for your understanding and co-operation.

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

===========================================================================

Shrimathey Nigamaantha Mahaa Deshikaaya Namaha

 

Respected Swamin,

 

Daasoham. Pl. excuse me if you feel that I am writing this mail in impertinence.

But I would like to touch upon the first sentence of Swami Deshika's in the

chapter Swanishtaabhignaanaadhikaranam of his magnum opus Rahasya Traya Saaram

which tells us how we should lead our lives (which is very relevant so far as

these kinds of incidents are concerned). It may be noted that Swami himself had

undergone these types and even worse insults and he came out a winner because he

practised what he was subsequently to preach.

 

"Pararaaley paribhavaadigal undaambodhu paribhaavakar sollugira kuttrangall than

swaroopathil thattadha padi kandu vishaadhaadhigal attrirukkayum...", "shapya

maanasya yath paapam shapantham adhi gacchathi"

 

Swami also says that even if a Srivaishnava is rebuked by another without any

fault of the former, he still has to ask forgiveness from the latter.

 

Let us all try to be Swami Deshika bhaktas and follow whatever he practised and

preached.

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan.

 

mksudarshan2002 <mksudarshan2002 wrote:

 

Dear Sri Anbil svAmi,

 

I second your motion with an emphatic "tathAsthu".

 

Rgds,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

,

> Dear Bhagavatas:

> Enough has been said on the subject.

> May we close further inputs on the subject in the Journal and move

on?

> Thanks for your understanding.

> Dasoham

> Anbil Ramaswamy

 

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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