Guest guest Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Srimathe Nigamantha Maha Desikaya Namaha Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Divyapadukasevaka Srivan Satakopa Sri NarayanaYatindra Mahadesikaya namaha Dear Bhagavathas, Recently I had come across some instances where , people by virtue of their faith in deity , claim that at certain instances , the deity itself come on them and they start behaving as if they are Almighty and the priests start worshipping them , showing 'arti' etc. Some times persons become very ferocious and others looking at or near by start trembling. We have read in books that Alwars due to their immense involvement and dedication in Lord , forgot themselves and went in to a state of 'trans' . I do not know whether we could equate the present behaviour to that state of Alwars . While I am not questioning the validity or sincerity of the faith in Almighty by these kinds of persons, people even call them as blessed persons , I feel that such state in present day circumstances could be due to combining effect of the person's involvement and faith in respective demigods / God coupled with his poor state of health . Will some one clarify , whether such states are accepted in our srivaishnava culture or if so , the reason for such behaviour of those persons. This question is not to HURT any one's faith or deminish the level of faith in God or to question the validity .It is only to get clarified on a query , which I have been having for quite some time. Regards Adiyen , Ramanuja Dasan , G.Sampath India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Here is one point of view: It is well-known that spirits (good or evil) can enter one's body and "possess" that person for short/long durations of time, thus taking control of the person's mental (and hence physical) faculties. Observance of Nithyakarma AnushtAnams will lessen or eliminate the "possession" by evil spirits. (By extension, a person's Sookshma Shareeram or "subtle" body, can, after death, enter/take another body as its abode in the next birth). Hence the "AVesham" that you refer to, if genuine, is, in the writer's opinion, perfectly acceptable and real. Ashok Krishnamurthy --- Sampath G <sampath_govindachari wrote: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha > Srimathe Nigamantha Maha Desikaya Namaha > > Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Divyapadukasevaka Srivan > Satakopa Sri NarayanaYatindra Mahadesikaya namaha > > Dear Bhagavathas, > > Recently I had come across some instances where , > people by virtue of their faith in deity , claim > that at certain instances , the deity itself come on > them and they start behaving as if they are Almighty > and the priests start worshipping them , showing > 'arti' etc. Some times persons become very > ferocious and others looking at or near by start > trembling. > > We have read in books that Alwars due to their > immense involvement and dedication in Lord , forgot > themselves and went in to a state of 'trans' . I do > not know whether we could equate the present > behaviour to that state of Alwars . > > While I am not questioning the validity or sincerity > of the faith in Almighty by these kinds of persons, > people even call them as blessed persons , I feel > that such state in present day circumstances could > be due to combining effect of the person's > involvement and faith in respective demigods / God > coupled with his poor state of health . > > Will some one clarify , whether such states are > accepted in our srivaishnava culture or if so , the > reason for such behaviour of those persons. > > This question is not to HURT any one's faith or > deminish the level of faith in God or to question > the validity .It is only to get clarified on a query > , which I have been having for quite some time. > > Regards > > Adiyen , Ramanuja Dasan , > > G.Sampath > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your life > partneronline. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Swmin's This state where Emperuman gets into one self, or what is called divine experiance is true. We know how Seshadri swamigal was decieved by HIM in the form of a Chandala. But, this behaviour of people claiming him to be inside and terrifying others is entirely out of charecter with HIM.We have alwars, we had Dhruva and others before in whom all Emperuman resided.But then the beauty of it is that when he is inside he attracts all the other Jivas to him. He never trrifies. This was true even with Ramakrishna, Chandrashekara saraswati and others who made all jivas irrespective of caste creed or religion to come close and not terrify. Dasan/raghavan Sampath G <sampath_govindachari wrote: Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Srimathe Nigamantha Maha Desikaya Namaha Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Divyapadukasevaka Srivan Satakopa Sri NarayanaYatindra Mahadesikaya namaha Dear Bhagavathas, Recently I had come across some instances where , people by virtue of their faith in deity , claim that at certain instances , the deity itself come on them and they start behaving as if they are Almighty and the priests start worshipping them , showing 'arti' etc. Some times persons become very ferocious and others looking at or near by start trembling. We have read in books that Alwars due to their immense involvement and dedication in Lord , forgot themselves and went in to a state of 'trans' . I do not know whether we could equate the present behaviour to that state of Alwars . While I am not questioning the validity or sincerity of the faith in Almighty by these kinds of persons, people even call them as blessed persons , I feel that such state in present day circumstances could be due to combining effect of the person's involvement and faith in respective demigods / God coupled with his poor state of health . Will some one clarify , whether such states are accepted in our srivaishnava culture or if so , the reason for such behaviour of those persons. This question is not to HURT any one's faith or deminish the level of faith in God or to question the validity .It is only to get clarified on a query , which I have been having for quite some time. Regards Adiyen , Ramanuja Dasan , G.Sampath India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline. / vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Namasthe, I wrote a mail on this to Sampath swami on this earlier. THought I shall share some of my thoughts with this group. People of low socio-economic status (specially oppressed women) may have a need to have power and glory. As a result they get Gods on them. This gives respect to them. Some also are commercially smart and make many out of arulvakku. This kind of stuff is very common with Christian ministries. They talk about healing and god talking to them. From the group they call a person by his name tell about his problems. Needless to say the person gets converted. Some of it may be the work of spirits. In some case it may be really a con game. There is also healing stuff. This is possible when people who are normal but with a psychiatric problem like depersonalization disorder. They think they can't walk or speak. But when the emotional charged atmosphere of prayer takes place, they may be coming out of their delusional belief. Thus a 'lame' walks. I really want to see if a person's limb is grown in such miracle meetings :-). The other cases can suffer from multiple personality syndrome. A person with lot of stress tends to think of some personage like deites or old man / woman etc. When they are in that delusion, they really think like that personality. Some other cases of spirits taking over can be due to schizophrenia. THey see angels talking to them etc. After few weeks of medication, angels disappers to a good extent. In Tantras there is a deity called Karna paischasini who can tell about all events about the world and also tell about the person before the tantrik. Lot of astrologers propiate her. Vivekanandha also talked about a person in Tamilnade who made correct predictions about him. Some cases like these can be genuine. But these are largely tamaswic siddhis and man need not go behind them. One way to see the deities occupying can be seen like our resonance principle. People tune to a frequency and that frequency may correspond to a conscious level of a deity. After death the sadhaka may reach this conscious plane of the deity. Lord talks about this in Geetha. Our belief neeed no such miracles since is all sattwic. At times God may take over a pious person to communicate few things. But it is important to watch for the person's credentials. Lot of times people waste their time and money on fakes. It is tough to identify the genuine from the sham. In specific situations, Acharyas can lead us to the right decision. warm regards, Balaji S. --- Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote: > > Swmin's > > This state where Emperuman gets into one self, or > what is called divine experiance > is true. We know how Seshadri swamigal was decieved > by HIM in the form of a > Chandala. > > But, this behaviour of people claiming him to be > inside and terrifying others is entirely > out of charecter with HIM.We have alwars, we had > Dhruva and others before in whom all > Emperuman resided.But then the beauty of it is that > when he is inside he attracts all the > other Jivas to him. He never trrifies. > > This was true even with Ramakrishna, Chandrashekara > saraswati and others who made > all jivas irrespective of caste creed or religion to > come close and not terrify. > > Dasan/raghavan > > Sampath G <sampath_govindachari wrote: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha > Srimathe Nigamantha Maha Desikaya Namaha > > Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Divyapadukasevaka Srivan > Satakopa Sri NarayanaYatindra Mahadesikaya namaha > > Dear Bhagavathas, > > Recently I had come across some instances where , > people by virtue of their faith in deity , claim > that at certain instances , the deity itself come on > them and they start behaving as if they are Almighty > and the priests start worshipping them , showing > 'arti' etc. Some times persons become very > ferocious and others looking at or near by start > trembling. > > We have read in books that Alwars due to their > immense involvement and dedication in Lord , forgot > themselves and went in to a state of 'trans' . I do > not know whether we could equate the present > behaviour to that state of Alwars . > > While I am not questioning the validity or sincerity > of the faith in Almighty by these kinds of persons, > people even call them as blessed persons , I feel > that such state in present day circumstances could > be due to combining effect of the person's > involvement and faith in respective demigods / God > coupled with his poor state of health . > > Will some one clarify , whether such states are > accepted in our srivaishnava culture or if so , the > reason for such behaviour of those persons. > > This question is not to HURT any one's faith or > deminish the level of faith in God or to question > the validity .It is only to get clarified on a query > , which I have been having for quite some time. > > Regards > > Adiyen , Ramanuja Dasan , > > G.Sampath > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your life > partneronline. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > vote. - Register online to vote today! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. 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Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 swamin, Your sugesstions seem to be and analysisof the different con games. Yes the missionaries are full of them, I am a witness to all this when I was in Chennai. I have never seen any lame actually getting healed in these meets they are their own men. It is marketing man. As for muniamma and kuppamma doing this, as you pointed out right this is only the propitiation of the particular god head ( note this is not emperuman) and working to that level. This is not the ECSTACY. Again you have 100 muniamma for 1 genuine one. What we call ecstacy is a state of bliss, where you know all what happens around you, beyond you and every where, but you are so engrossed in that leela that you rarely come out to this world. That was the feet of Azhwars, and others. Dasan/Raghavan balaji srinivasan <sri_balaji wrote: Namasthe, I wrote a mail on this to Sampath swami on this earlier. THought I shall share some of my thoughts with this group. People of low socio-economic status (specially oppressed women) may have a need to have power and glory. As a result they get Gods on them. This gives respect to them. Some also are commercially smart and make many out of arulvakku. This kind of stuff is very common with Christian ministries. They talk about healing and god talking to them. From the group they call a person by his name tell about his problems. Needless to say the person gets converted. Some of it may be the work of spirits. In some case it may be really a con game. There is also healing stuff. This is possible when people who are normal but with a psychiatric problem like depersonalization disorder. They think they can't walk or speak. But when the emotional charged atmosphere of prayer takes place, they may be coming out of their delusional belief. Thus a 'lame' walks. I really want to see if a person's limb is grown in such miracle meetings :-). The other cases can suffer from multiple personality syndrome. A person with lot of stress tends to think of some personage like deites or old man / woman etc. When they are in that delusion, they really think like that personality. Some other cases of spirits taking over can be due to schizophrenia. THey see angels talking to them etc. After few weeks of medication, angels disappers to a good extent. In Tantras there is a deity called Karna paischasini who can tell about all events about the world and also tell about the person before the tantrik. Lot of astrologers propiate her. Vivekanandha also talked about a person in Tamilnade who made correct predictions about him. Some cases like these can be genuine. But these are largely tamaswic siddhis and man need not go behind them. One way to see the deities occupying can be seen like our resonance principle. People tune to a frequency and that frequency may correspond to a conscious level of a deity. After death the sadhaka may reach this conscious plane of the deity. Lord talks about this in Geetha. Our belief neeed no such miracles since is all sattwic. At times God may take over a pious person to communicate few things. But it is important to watch for the person's credentials. Lot of times people waste their time and money on fakes. It is tough to identify the genuine from the sham. In specific situations, Acharyas can lead us to the right decision. warm regards, Balaji S. --- Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote: > > Swmin's > > This state where Emperuman gets into one self, or > what is called divine experiance > is true. We know how Seshadri swamigal was decieved > by HIM in the form of a > Chandala. > > But, this behaviour of people claiming him to be > inside and terrifying others is entirely > out of charecter with HIM.We have alwars, we had > Dhruva and others before in whom all > Emperuman resided.But then the beauty of it is that > when he is inside he attracts all the > other Jivas to him. He never trrifies. > > This was true even with Ramakrishna, Chandrashekara > saraswati and others who made > all jivas irrespective of caste creed or religion to > come close and not terrify. > > Dasan/raghavan > > Sampath G <sampath_govindachari wrote: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha > Srimathe Nigamantha Maha Desikaya Namaha > > Srimate Sri Lakshminrisimha Divyapadukasevaka Srivan > Satakopa Sri NarayanaYatindra Mahadesikaya namaha > > Dear Bhagavathas, > > Recently I had come across some instances where , > people by virtue of their faith in deity , claim > that at certain instances , the deity itself come on > them and they start behaving as if they are Almighty > and the priests start worshipping them , showing > 'arti' etc. Some times persons become very > ferocious and others looking at or near by start > trembling. > > We have read in books that Alwars due to their > immense involvement and dedication in Lord , forgot > themselves and went in to a state of 'trans' . I do > not know whether we could equate the present > behaviour to that state of Alwars . > > While I am not questioning the validity or sincerity > of the faith in Almighty by these kinds of persons, > people even call them as blessed persons , I feel > that such state in present day circumstances could > be due to combining effect of the person's > involvement and faith in respective demigods / God > coupled with his poor state of health . > > Will some one clarify , whether such states are > accepted in our srivaishnava culture or if so , the > reason for such behaviour of those persons. > > This question is not to HURT any one's faith or > deminish the level of faith in God or to question > the validity .It is only to get clarified on a query > , which I have been having for quite some time. > > Regards > > Adiyen , Ramanuja Dasan , > > G.Sampath > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your life > partneronline. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > vote. - Register online to vote today! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. / Mail – CNET Editors' Choice 2004. 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